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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Renfrewshire => Topic started by: c5el on Thursday 17 August 17 16:55 BST (UK)
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I'm struggling to find Scottish records for my ancestors. I have a marriage record from 1846 in Birmingham which states they are:
Janet Thompson (born abt 1822, Paisley), daughter of James Thompson, Woollen Manufacturer
John Pollock (full age in 1846), son of William Pollock, Yarn Merchant
John seems to have died/disappeared before the 1861 census so I don't have a place of birth or approx age for him.
Does anyone know anything about the families in Paisley or if John Pollock might have been from somewhere else?
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Is the family in Pottersbury, Northhampton in 1851 with children named Margaret and Sarah?
If this is correct, John's place of birth is entered as Lanarkshire, Scotland age 29yrs
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I think I remember that record but I'm not sure if it's a redherring, as by 1851 there should be a Robert and Susan Pollock, BUT Pottersbury is the registered district their child Agnes Marion was later born in 1852, so I can't decide. ???
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Susan was born 1850 but died 1853 aged 2yrs. Robert was born 1846. Can't see anything for them in 1851
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If you look closely at the 1861 census, the youngest child named Charles was just 2 yrs old and Janet was already a widow.
The window for John's death could not be more than 2-3yrs before this.
The 1851 census will be correct but I do not know why son Robert is not on the census.
Have you seen his marriage cert?
He and his sister Margaret married in St Pancras on the same day.
Christmas day 1868 and their spouses were also the Jefcoate siblings.
Sister Agnes Pollock was the witness for Margaret.
EDIT
The address on the 1846 Pollock/Thompson marriage plus the witness named Margaret Pollock is revealing.
Look at the address.
1851:
This is also Smallbrook Place
At a guess, this is John's married brother and his unmarried sister.
Robt Pollack 32 B Scotland
Susan Pollack 33 wife B Scotland
Robt Pollack 9
John Pollack 7
Isabella Pollack 1 Mo
Margaret Pollack 23 Sister B Scotland
Margaret Pollock married Alfred Westwood in 1852
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Did they belong to this family?
"Busby cotton mill was founded on the White Cart Water in Mearns Parish in
December 1780. It replaced lint and meal mills on the site, which was traditionally
known as Newmill, a name which remained in use until about 1800. It was
established by Glasgow merchant William Ferguson who had a textile shop in
Gallowgate.
In March 1783 Busby was advertised in the Glasgow Press . Three months
later Dove cothall was also put on the market. By this time the mills had been
spinning for at least a year. Both were purchased by Richard Thomson, a Glasgow
merchant, who was soon residing in the mansion house beside Dovecothall mill.
Busby and Dovecothall are less than five miles apart and joint ownership and
management were a practical proposition. Three years later Thomson sold Busby
mill to Robert Twyford, a Manchester merchant. By 1787 Twyford had also acquired
Dovecothall mill"
http://rlhf.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/2.3-Dovecothall-and-Busby-Mills-Nisbet.pdf
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Is there a connection to this Renfrewshire Robert Pollock?
"There had been hunger just after 1740 when harvests failed, but
Paisley was full of optimism in 1745. Kerr and Pollock were acquiring a large new
bleaching-field over in Neilston Parish. It stretched from the Kirkton Burn to the
Levern Water along what is now called Cross Arthurlie.
http://rlhf.info/wp-content/uploads/14.2-St-Mirren-Burn-Clark.pdf
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Hi all,
anne_p I hadn't thought of looking for the siblings on the marriage certificate, maybe now I can find a baptism record if I look for a John, Robert and Margaret Pollock with the same parents.
and Rena I'm not sure if they are related to those families, would yarn merchants and woollen manufacturers be affluent? I can't tell by woollen manufacturer if it means he just operates the machine or if he owns a manufacturing company.
Maybe I should try finding some probate records for the siblings and others, if they had a lot of assets it could indicate more?
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Hi all,
anne_p I hadn't thought of looking for the siblings on the marriage certificate, maybe now I can find a baptism record if I look for a John, Robert and Margaret Pollock with the same parents.
and Rena I'm not sure if they are related to those families, would yarn merchants and woollen manufacturers be affluent? I can't tell by woollen manufacturer if it means he just operates the machine or if he owns a manufacturing company.
Maybe I should try finding some probate records for the siblings and others, if they had a lot of assets it could indicate more?
Exceedingly well off families - if you do more surfing you'll see the ones I illustrated owned houses, whereas ordinary mortals rented a house or just one room and maybe two rooms as their family home.
When a family owned a successful company they needed to send their representatives further afield to open up more trade. This could be the case with the specific ancestors you're currently trying to discover more information about.
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Rena,
My Pollock (P in my username) family also came from Paisley.
I can trace them back to mid- late 18th century but records prior to this are really sketchy and in all honesty, I defy anyone to definitively work their lines back to the earlier generations listed
I do not know exactly where my earlier family came from.
My earliest ancestor born circa 1760 died between 1823 and 1841.
His widow was quite affluent but, this man did not leave a will and there is no way to determine his ancestry.
I also know that one of the Pollock mill owning families from the mid 1700 period was in fact, Irish !
If my memory serves me right, he was the Pollock in Pollock & Kerr
Renfrewshire is a huge parish and Paisley is in the opposite side of the parish to Busby or Mearns.
They border Lanarkshire
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That's really interesting. and yes the records do get sketchy.
I've just been searching through baptism records and i have two potential leads on the Thompson's.
One is a church of Scotland record registered in lochwinnoch? do you think this would be too far away from Paisley to say "I was born in Paisley" on a census?
The other is Paisley Reformed Presbyterian, registered in Paisley. Both records have the correct father, James Thompson/Thomson.
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I can sympathise with your quandary about the earlier generations due to paucity of definite documentation, as I have the same problem with my Crum line, who were mostly in the weaving trade.
I managed to get further back, not due to Crum wills but to my family's given names. One child had been named after a family friend and when I found the friend's rich widow Lillias had left a will, I bought it and discovered she'd named two of her cousins (John the printer in Kilmarnock and John who owned a stationery company in Glasgow); one being my ancestor. By linking the three cousins I traced them all back to one ancestor.
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Hi All :)
A possible lead on Janet Thomson's family...maybe!
There is this family in London for the 1851 census:
John Thompson 42 porter and Chelsea Pensioner b. Scotland
Mary Thompson 44 b. Scotland
Ann Thompson 18 b. Scotland
James Thompson 16 b. Middlesex
John Thompson 5 b. Middlesex
Jane Thompson 4 b. Middlesex
Marian Thompson 73 mother b. Scotland
Robt Pollock 4 newphew b. Scotland
Wm Foot 3
Wondered whether newphew Robert Pollock's birth place had been given as Scotland in error?
I think mother Marian is a Marian Merry, married to a James Thomson in 1803 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTNW-N4D
Some children for them, but no Janet although there is a gap for her birth:
John 1804 b. Kilmarnock
Marion 1807 b. Kilmarnock
James 1809 b. Kilmarnock
William 1817 b. Abbey Paisley
David 1819 b. Abbey Paisley
These details are from the Old Parish Registers on Scotlands People. As always, no idea what detail is included on these OPR entries until you look at them to check.
There is this possible entry for John and wife Mary Thomson in 1861, showing a Kilmarnock birth place (which is very helpful always, with an English census, to include this detail) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7LZ-2M1
Something to work with hopefully.
Monica
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The address on the 1846 Pollock/Thompson marriage plus the witness named Margaret Pollock is revealing.
Look at the address.
1851:
This is also Smallbrook Place
At a guess, this is John's married brother and his unmarried sister.
Robt Pollack 32 B Scotland
Susan Pollack 33 wife B Scotland
Robt Pollack 9
John Pollack 7
Isabella Pollack 1 Mo
Margaret Pollack 23 Sister B Scotland
Margaret Pollock married Alfred Westwood in 1852
From Anne's info earlier, this looks to be Robert, Susan and family in in 1851 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7NT-3J2 and 1861 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5TM-KLW
From a post on another forum https://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1617&start=10, there is:
My connection to the Pollock"s is through a Isobel Findlay who married a James Moir 1st june 1815 and their daughter Susan Steel Moir married a Robert Pollock 17th Aug 1840. These Pollock's moved to Birmingham England,but i am sure they left a lot of other parts of the family in Glasgow.
There is a Pollock couple, William and Agnes Armour, having children in Paisley in the 1820s that you could consider. The married there in 1821. Four births showing there:
Jean 1821
John 1824
Margaret 1828
Agnes 1831
Robert Pollock, husband of Susan, born c. 1819.
Monica