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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Green Dragon on Thursday 17 August 17 20:45 BST (UK)
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This photo is by Elliot & Fry 55 Baker St
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Royal Field Artillery???
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Hi, it's one of the Artillery units, as said, probably Royal Field Artillery, or possibly Royal Horse Artillery
Frank.
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Definitely FRA or RHA. The photo dates to after 1915 due to the type of tunic being worn and is likely to be 1915/16. Does this tie in with what you know?
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Thanks for all the replies . The man we think most likely to be in the photo is E C Inman I couldn't find anything on Ancestry military search . I've just found an E C Inman on a different search and it gives Royal Garrison Artillery. Is this possible.
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Thanks for all the replies . The man we think most likely to be in the photo is E C Inman I couldn't find anything on Ancestry military search . I've just found an E C Inman on a different search and it gives Royal Garrison Artillery. Is this possible.
Absolutely :)
Frank.
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Hi, do you have any idea of his age when the photograph was taken?
There is a medal index card for a Ernest C Inman with the number 344242, also on the award roll it states:
Sub Unit: Forth. (RGA - (TF))
Previous Units: R.G.A. (T.F) 344242, Gunner.
Could this be your man?
Frank.
ADDED: I have to pop out but I'm sure someone else will be along to add to your post.
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A further clue - the EC Inman referred to was in the Forth Royal Garrison Artillery a unit of the Territorial Force (TF) which had 4 companies in Edinburgh, one in Kirkaldy and Kinghorn and another in Burntisland and Inverkeithing. His medal record indicates he didn't serve abroad.
MaxD
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The bandoliers in the photo were for gunners riding or drawing horses. The RGA did not have horses for moving guns unless they re-roled to Field Artillery.
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Sorry Alan O, not entirely the case. See for example
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Correct. When the RGA were in UK and in Garrison duties aboard they fired the largest guns from fixed battery locations. During WW1 they re-roled to a field role to deploy the largest guns to the front. Therefore when in a field role the need lots of horses to move the guns and wore bandoliers. Hence the bandoliers in your photo.
if you had the full service history of the man then you might be better informed as to which role he was in but I was under the impression that he was not in a deployable unit but based in the UK. perhaps the original poster can help narrow down his service history.
As the photo is by London, rather than a Scottish photographer then it may be another set of gunners rather than the name suggested. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_%26_Fry
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Hi, do you have any idea of his age when the photograph was taken?
There is a medal index card for a Ernest C Inman with the number 344242, also on the award roll it states:
Sub Unit: Forth. (RGA - (TF))
Previous Units: R.G.A. (T.F) 344242, Gunner.
Could this be your man?
Frank.
ADDED: I have to pop out but I'm sure someone else will be along to add to your post.
Thanks Frank not sure why he would be in a Scottish regiment but he was Ernest Charles Inman .
All I know is he was born in Yorkshire in 1887 and died in Lichfield Staffordshire in 1929.
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I always assumed he was in France at one time . I once saw a book of trench art sketches he had drawn comparing life as it would be at home a table full of food , along side a sketch of reality a hut with virtually nothing .
Just found this confirms he was a gunner
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Bandoliers - noted. My post identified the medal card holder as a member of the Forth RGA, I didn't link it to the photograph.
There is a medal card also for an 173776 Driver Ernest Inman Royal Field Artillery which may be your man, he is the only RFA Inman to turn up. No service record survives so no family info to positively identify him.
MaxD
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I visited my Aunt today to see if she could find a photo to compare with the large photo and she produced a letter from Gnr Inman 122735 249 Siege Battery RGA B.E.F France. It's dated 3 July 1917.
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http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-royal-artillery-in-the-first-world-war/the-siege-batteries-of-the-royal-garrison-artillery/
The only info here is that the Bty deployed to France in Mar 1917.
This post has some more unit details:
http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/topic/67442-rga-siege-battery/
This page shows pictures of the type of howitzer they used:
http://www.landships.info/landships/artillery_articles/8in_howitzer_Mk_I_V.html
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Alan o covers it well. The war diary for the period March 1917 to January 1918 is here http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/a2e162e53c834a37b7e000ad598eff3b
downloadable for £3.50**
Curiously, while not finding service records is quite usual (70% or so destroyed in the second war), I would expect to find a medal card, no such luck at first trawl.
MaxD
**Just learned from following alan o's guidance that the months of Jun, Jul and Aug are missing from the diary as are the same months from the HAG (Heavy Artillery Group) they were in at the time.
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Alan o
I wonder if you would care to review a tentative "joining of the dots". I'd value your thoughts
The discussion on the GWF notes that a 344240 Gnr Temperton of 249 SB was killed in Jul 1917. In the Register of Soldiers' Effects. in Soldiers Died in the Great War and in the CWGC details his unit is given as 249 SB. In the RGA medal roll however, he appears in the Forth RGA (TF) list on the page before 344242 EC Inman - where we started this search.
Thus we have two men who appear to have served in both units which may suggest a draft from one to the other. It would be instructive to trawl around for more but given that EC Inman appears in the medal entries just the once and that no Inman entry appears for the number he gives in 1917 (perhaps post renumbering?), I would venture to suggest that the medal card for 344242 is our man. Still no detailed record of course so difficult to prove/disprove but worth a punt??
MaxD
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I think you may be on to something - the number he uses in his letter might be the TF one that he was issued when he joined up. This would have to be pre-renumbering.
The one on the medal card the one in use when he qualified for the medal by which time the regtl numbers had been reallocated.
Again the LLT site explains it and confirms the re-numbering of the 344xxx series of numbers was Forth RGA.
http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/renumbering-of-the-territorial-force-in-1917/
If only his medals were still around.
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Following with interest the thoughts of two very knowledgeable posters.
Frank.
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But lacking a bit of precision on my side Frank! In my post when I wrote "no Inman entry appears for the number he gives in 1917 (perhaps post renumbering?)," I should perhaps have written "no entry appears for the number he gives in 1917 because it was after re-numbering". I've wrestled with the TF renumbering many times!
I agree it would be great if his medals had survived and nice if the Forth RGA had taken the trouble to record both sets of numbers as others did. I have been able to find, just for indicative purposes and before RSI set in, three more men who were renumbered in the Forth RGA and who later were serving in siege batteries in the BEF. Proves only that men moved from one unit to another but helps my theory I think.
For Green Dragon - neither of us specifically confirmed that the original photograph is almost without doubt a photograph of an RGA unit in something other than a coast role and very likely to be part of 249 Siege Battery (there aren't enough men to be the whole battery). And, in sum, the theory is that your man was, prior to 1917, in the Forth RGA on the coast of Scotland with the number he used in his letter and then, probably while serving in 1917 with 249 SB, received his other number which went on his medal record. It will be super if a photo turns up but be ready for him not being in the main one.
MaxD
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Going back to the original photo as it's in London, the unit are dressed for manning guns with horses rather than static guns in Scottish fortresses, and the size then I also think it will be 249 Siege Battery in the photo.
The battery records state that it had,in 1917, 188 men, inclusive of 8 Officers and 8 Serjeants. Looking at the photo I assume that we can see only a little of the centre and right hand side of the battery: which shows 6 officers, 4 sgts and approximately 80 men. Allowing for the rest to be out of the cropped scan would account for the other half.
Alan
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Actually I think I need to correct my post about numbering - his 122### number would be a Regular number that he was allocated by he joined up (in 1915?).
He may well have been trained in gunnery by the Forth RGA (a TF number would only have 4 digits) which is why he was posted to Scotland as a Yorkshireman before being posted to France with his new siege battery: and then he was re-numbered in 1917.
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Thank you for all your replies I've got far more on here than I ever expected . You're right Alan it's only a sample of the uniform for ID it was too large for the scanner so did it at twice. https://s3.postimg.org/v7jtkkgfn/bekly.png (https://s3.postimg.org/v7jtkkgfn/bekly.png) I downloaded the medical card but it doesn't give much detail.
https://s3.postimg.org/4760vzs4z/lowhouset_another_copy.jpg (https://s3.postimg.org/4760vzs4z/lowhouset_another_copy.jpg)
One here when Ernest would be early 20's around 1910.