RootsChat.Com
Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: Quarryman on Thursday 17 August 17 21:03 BST (UK)
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Trying to find out something of the social history of Llansannan in the mid and late 1600s. Can anybody point me in the direction of any references.
Quarryman
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Whilst the Genuki page for the Parish is always a good starting place,you'd also do well to see whats on the National Library of Wales website.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/Llansannan
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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You may pick up an odd snippet in the foreword to the parish registers (1667-1812)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kjx/
Regards
Roger
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Do you have the next set i.e from 1812- 1910
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The parish registers are now online at FindMyPast.
Gadget
Links here: https://tinyurl.com/yx9gwv9o
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PS - I've given the links to all Denbighshire parish records. You select the parish on the search form.
Gadget
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Not what I am looking for, possibly the marriage is in the Chapel [Henry Rees] Mar 1866 is in the NWBMD, but this just refers to John Jones & Catherine Jones, great that's what I want. Trouble is her father is Bezaleel Jones of Bryn Nantllech.
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What do you want?
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Also their son Evan Jones born nk/April 1870 in Llannefydd. The other part of the brick wall.
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I'll have a look. I have some of the non-conformist records but most stop at 1837. There are also some non-conformist records on Family Search and FindMyPast. Have you tried there?
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I don't see anything among my off line sources or the online ones. The Clwyd FHS booklets for Llansannan end at 1812. You might have to gpurchase the marriage cert.
Have you found them on any censuses?
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Was Catherine with her parents Belazeel and Catherine in Llanasa, Holywell, in 1851. Belazeel was a farmer?
HO107/2500/58/26
Catherine was aged 4, b. llansannan
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Thanks, I have everything but these two parts of the brick wall. I have been looking at the Farms they lived in tenanted and owned, The Bezaleel line goes back to yet another John Jones c1770 and Margaret Davies. However if this marriage is wrong, that part of the tree is wrong.
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Yes, [but its not Holywell], its Llanasa Flintshire, living in a farm called Terfyn. They move back to Llansannan and are living in the Farm BrynNantllech in 1861.
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Yes, but its not Holywell. I
It's Llanasa, Holywell RD
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Thanks, I have everything but these two parts of the brick wall. I have been looking at the Farms they lived in tenanted and owned, The Bezaleel line goes back to yet another John Jones c1770 and Margaret Davies. However if this marriage is wrong, that part of the tree is wrong.
Do you mean the marriage between Catherine and John Jones or Bezaleel Jones and Catherine Roberts?
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In the 1871 Census they are living in Llannefydd small farm called Bryn Y Gwent, Which gives 3 children John 1866, David 1869 and Evan 1870. John is born Llansannan, David is born in Llanfair Talhaiarn and Evan is born in Llannefydd.
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In the 1871 Census they are living in Llannefydd small farm called Bryn Y Gwent, Which gives 3 children John 1866, David 1869 and Evan 1870. John is born Llansannan, David is born in Llanfair Talhaiarn and Evan is born in Llannefydd.
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Just been looking at it and typed it out so will reproduce what I typed!
1871 Bryn y Gwynt, Llanefydd
RG10/5674/58/21
John Jones, 37, labourer farming ?, b. Llansannan
Catherine, 25, b -do-
John, 5 , b. -do-
David, 2, b. llanfairtalhaearn
Evan, 11mths, b. Llanefydd
Are you trying to find John's family?
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Sorry but you're not telling me what you want to find out :-\
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Sorry but you're not telling me what you want to find out :-\
I made that clear about 30 mins ago [I want the marriage of John Jones and Catherine Jones the daughter of Bezaleel and Catherine Roberts of Bryn Nantllech , Llansannan. and to prove I am coming up from the correct Evan Jones his birth in 1870 to the above parents.
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And I told you that you would have to purchase the marriage cert that you found on NW BMD as the marriage is not showing online.
A possible for John in 1841
HO107/402/13/6/51
Village, Llansannan
Edward Jones, 32, shoemaker
Margaret, 30
John, 6.
Catherine, 3
All b. Denbighshire
and in 1851 at Deunant Isaf, as a farm servant
HO107/2507/501/31
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The GRO ref to that marriage is
St Asaph, Q1, 1866, v11b, 505
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How do you know Johns father [1841 Census below?
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I said it was a possible. I traced him back via the censuses and the 1841 looked the most likely.
If you want to make sure, you'll have to buy the marriage cert.
Added: a PS - you seem to be modifying/adding to your posts, which is confusing. It is usualand clearer to add 'Add' when you do this
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I said it was a possible. I traced him back via the censuses and the 1841 looked the most likely.
If you want to make sure, you'll have to buy the marriage cert.
Added: a PS - you seem to be modifying/adding to your posts, which is confusing. It is usualand clearer to add 'Add' when you do this
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Yes its possible, [had looked at it previously and a load of others although I had a David and Mary as possible parents] as for buying the Certificates I am trying to do just that from Ruthin Registrars but I cannot get in touch as they only have 2 people doing all Denbighshire.
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Anyway thanks for your help
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I don't know whether these snippets help,identifying John Jones of Truan Mawr being previously of Bryn Nantllech.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01o2h/
There is a will of 1905 for John Jones from Truan Mawr,nominating Evan Jones and Edward Jones.
Is this the same Evan in Traian(sic) in Henllan in 1901,given born Llanefydd?
Regards
Roger
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Yes its possible, [had looked at it previously and a load of others although I had a David and Mary as possible parents] as for buying the Certificates I am trying to do just that from Ruthin Registrars but I cannot get in touch as they only have 2 people doing all Denbighshire.
I used to be able to phone them up and have a chat and decide which one was mine in the 'olden days'
You could try ordering online:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp
Gadget
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I tried just that yesterday and it was due to being led all over the country with only Indexes from NWBMD that I tried this forum. They do not have the masters and will not do look - ups. It is only the Ruthin Registration Office that has original Denbighshire Records.
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If you buy the cert online via the GRO and using the ref that I gave
The GRO ref to that marriage is
St Asaph, Q1, 1866, v11b, 505
You will get a copy of the marriage cert. It will give all the details that the original cert has but will not have the original handwriting.
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When you login tho the GRO site:
select Order a certificate
select marriage and give info re year and knowing the ref, etc.
A new page will come up.
Fill in as I show below
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You can also order via the North Wales BMD website.
Select the marriage ref that you want (STASAPH/09/E1). This will take you to a page giving more info. Click on the ref code again. This will take you to an online form, already completed for you. Complete you details, print it out and send to the address given on the form.
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I have been in touch with Rhyl/Ruthin and the GRO this morning. they are researching in Rhyl as we speak.
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I don't know whether these snippets help,identifying John Jones of Truan Mawr being previously of Bryn Nantllech.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01o2h/
There is a will of 1905 for John Jones from Truan Mawr,nominating Evan Jones and Edward Jones.
Is this the same Evan in Traian(sic) in Henllan in 1901,given born Llanefydd?
Regards
Roger
Thanks, Good find Evan actually bought Bryn Nantllech in 1903. But I cannot find the Will or any information on John Jones in 1901 Census.
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I don't know whether these snippets help,identifying John Jones of Truan Mawr being previously of Bryn Nantllech.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01o2h/
There is a will of 1905 for John Jones from Truan Mawr,nominating Evan Jones and Edward Jones.
Is this the same Evan in Traian(sic) in Henllan in 1901,given born Llanefydd?
Regards
Roger
Thanks, Good find Evan actually bought Bryn Nantllech in 1903. But I cannot find the Will or any information on John Jones in 1901 Census.
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It's in the Probate Calendar:
Jones, John of Truan Mawr Henllan, Denbighshire. farmer died 10 May 1905. Probate, St Asaph 15 July to Evan Jones, farmer and Edward Jones, builder. Effects £556
Gadget
PS - any more info from GRO/Rhyl?
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Did your Evan marry an Elizabeth Ann Roberts or Jones? There are two marriages in the time frame.
Added - if I've got the correct family, it was Roberts (I checked mmn on BC of child)
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The Evan Jones that Roger refers to in 1901:
Traian, Henllan
RG13/5239/118/29
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Yes I had that 1901 Census, Yes M 1896, Did not find that Will, and I still have had NO contact with GRO at Rhyl. Also, Edward is a bit of a concern as I do not have him on the main tree.
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It's not the actual Will, it's from the Probate Calendar.
To get a copy of the will, you can search the online probate service site:
https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate
Use the info that I gave.
Gadget
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I don't see an Edward as son of John either. In 1881, John was a widower at Bryn Nantlech and seems to have the children, except John, with him. Could Edward be a brother? Also, there's no mention of David and the daughters as beneficiaries. Probate entries usually just mention the executors. I would have expected John and David to have been mentioned as executors/elder sons. Have you found them in later censuses?
Gadget
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Rhyl and Ruthin Registry offices cannot find the marriage of John Jones and Catherine Jones [with Bezaleel as the her father] and the censuses I have for JJ give him born in Llansannan and Llannefydd with him Widower, married after her death living in Bryn Nantllech. Not being able to trace correctly the children John, David, Catherine , Elizabeth and Mary. I find it very difficult to prove any more. Thanks for the help