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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Tiani on Sunday 20 August 17 08:00 BST (UK)
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Hi Everyone! :)
Ive been researching (or trying to!!) this direct ancestor. No success. At all. :(
His name is William Bowman, and I have no dates for him. The only info I have so far is that he married a Rebecca Bindel (also spelled Bendall). I have no dates for her either. Her father could be a John Bindel/Bendall.
William and Rebecca Bowman had a son, John Bowman, who we come through. His dates are 1866-1933, and he was born in Evans Plain, Bathurst, NSW, Australia. he married a Rebecca Shepherd.
I have not been able to find anything at all out about William Bowman. I did find a web page (http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/bowman-john-1813) that has a heap about a Bowman family that settled in the area he was in. In fact, a member of the family had a property in Bathurst. But I can not as yet find the connection.
If anyone can give me any help, or any leads whatsoever, I will be extremely appreciative. :D
Thank you very much for taking the time to read this!
Kind Regards,
Tiani :)
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Welcome to Rootschat, Tiani
Births:
4780/1860 Sarah
4766/1862 Mary
5416/1866 John
6447/1872 William
Added: Only 2 Rebecca deaths beween 1872 and 1940:
10481/1909 BOWMAN Rebecca parents GEORGE and KATE at ORANGE
6766/1899 BOWMAN Rebecca parent JOHN DIED MULLION CREEK at ORANGE - I think it's this one.
Jamjar
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Marriage and death of Sarah:
3140/1875 HALLIDAY William to BOWMAN Sarah MOLONG
2765/1899 HALLIDAY Sarah parents WILLIAM and REBECCAH ORANGE
Marriage and death of Mary:
3527/1877 CLAY Alfred to BOWMAN Mary MOLONG
8696/1938 CLAY Mary parents WILLIAM and REBECCA CANTERBURY
Funeral notice for Alfred: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article15887959
Funeral notice for Mary: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article239998550
Buried Rookwood Anglican Sect:6 Row:13 Grave: 2770,2771
Clay, Alfred 1 May 1920 67
Clay, Mary 14 May 1938 76
Inscription: Wife of above (inscription on urn - "Father & Mother"
Marriage and death of William:
7439/1893 BOWMAN William to SHEPHERD ANNIE N (Narnia) WELLINGTON - I think it's possible
13315/1917 Bowman William parents WILLIAM REBECCA WARREN
4508/1954 BOWMAN Annie 86 YEARS BODANGORA WELLINGTON - Again I think it's possible
Marriage and death of John:
7137/1889 BOWMAN John to SHEPHERD Rebecca WELLINGTON
13443/1933 Bowman John parents WILLIAM J and MARGARET DUBBO ( the only 1933 death I can see for a John Bowman)
Jamjar
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Can you please list all the information on this marriage record -
NSM BDM marr
7137/1889 BOWMAN John m. SHEPHERD Rebecca @ Wellington
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Tiani is the detailed online tree, which includes the copy of the marriage cert for Sarah, your tree?
It has all the children for Sarah and Mary, but nothing for John and William Jnr, or the parents
Jamjar
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Can you please list all the information on this marriage record -
NSM BDM marr
7137/1889 BOWMAN John m. SHEPHERD Rebecca @ Wellington
If it's anything like Sarah's it won't be any help. All it had were their names, status and a note saying father had given permission as she was under age.
Jamjar
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The only info I have so far is that he married a Rebecca Bindel (also spelled Bendall).
You know this how?
I am not seeing a marriage, could you point to the record of one, please?
Jamjar
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Hi
Obit for John Bowman http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/132950377?searchTerm=William%20bowman%20bathurst&searchLimits=
Muss
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I wonder ???
Under the 'Persons advertised for':
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article13004316
"REBECCA BENDALL, your Friend WILLIAM BEAMAN is now living with Mr. JAMES BULL, of Liverpool, and would be glad to hear from you."
I have found assisted immigrants William Bowman 19 on the Northern Lights 1858 and Rebecca Bendall 23 on the Washington Irving 1857
In 1858: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article13009938
"IF THIS should meet the eye of REBECCA BENDALL, your sister SARAH is in Sydney, anxious to see you. Address Mrs. Wallis, 31, Union-street."
Jamjar
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You need to research your own family, not those who happen to have the same surname. All of William and Rebecca's children were born after civil registration began so a birth certificate for any one of them will give an occupation for the father, an age for both parents, and their place of birth. You can then see if those details match up with immigration records.
Debra :)
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Debra is offering sound advice.
There is an immigration record for Rebecca BENDALL. September 1857.
Aged 23
Per Washington Irving
General Servant.
Born Cambridge.
Parents Charles and Susan
Father dead
Sister in the colony. Eliza BENDALL, per Vocalist.
Can read.
Immigration record for Eliza BENDALL. August 1857
Aged 18
Per Vocalist
Housemaid
Born Cambridge
Parents John and Susan
Father dead
Brother in the colony. John....??...Mother... (this needs some deciphering input!)
Sue
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Immigration for John BENDALL. Dec 1854.
Per General Hewitt
Aged 30
Born Cambridge
Parents John and Susan.
Father dead
Has a relative in Sydney (this too needs some deciphering input!) Might be 'brother'
Sue
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I had to cheat and look them up because I couldn't read it either.
Rebecca BENDALL. September 1857.
Aged 23
Per Washington Irving
General Servant.
Fulbourne Cambridge.
Parents Charles and Susan
Mother at Fulbourne, Father dead
Sister in the colony. Eliza BENDALL, per Vocalist.
Can read.
Eliza BENDALL. August 1857
Aged 18
Per Vocalist
Kitchenmaid
Fulborn Cambridge
Parents John and Susan
Father dead, mother at Fulborn
Brothers in the colony, John, Mathew and William Bendall, Sydney
John's just says 'Brother in Sydney' with no name. Matthew arrived in 1859 on the Rose of Sharon, brothers William and John in the colony. William probably arrived in 1854 on the Ellenborough. He was from Cambridge but most of the columns for the passengers have been left blank.
Debra :)
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Yes, agree, there's definitely more than one BOWMAN family in the central west of NSW in the 1850s !
I will look up my own family tree charts to see if I can help with any 'stray' bdms.
JM
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Possible on the UK 1841 and 1851 census:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQRD-KFJ
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGCT-4SH
Jamjar
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Hi Tiani,
I see you are online at the moment. To reply, just click on the 'REPLY' button and the dialogue box pops up ready for you to type into.
JM
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Can anyone see the immigration details for William Bowman on the Northern Lights?
Jamjar
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Can anyone see the immigration details for William Bowman on the Northern Lights?
Jamjar
;D
Single male, not being member of families
BOWMAN William, 19, butcher, Nottingham, both read &Write
Page 10
http://indexes.records.nsw.gov.au/ebook/list.aspx?Page=NRS5316/4_4795/Northern Light_9 May 1858/4_479500085.jpg&No=10
Tiani's not replied, but has logged off :(
JM
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Thank you, JM.
Yes, it's odd when folk do that. :-\
Jamjar
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Tiani is the detailed online tree, which includes the copy of the marriage cert for Sarah, your tree?
It has all the children for Sarah and Mary, but nothing for John and William Jnr, or the parents
Jamjar
Thank you heaps for all your help!! I am very excited to finally have some things to go on. :D
No, that is not my tree. :)
Kind Regards, Tiani
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The only info I have so far is that he married a Rebecca Bindel (also spelled Bendall).
You know this how?
I am not seeing a marriage, could you point to the record of one, please?
Jamjar
:-[ I don't have one. All I have is what relatives remember. I'm sorry!
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Hi there,
May I suggest that it would be sensible to confirm those relatives memories ... afterall, it is simply not possible that there's anyone living who was alive in the 1800s .... I am not suggesting you rush out and order a stack of certificates, but I am suggesting you do check each generation back from your own, before you rush to the various Bowman families in regional NSW in the 1800s, not all of them are related families. I am still looking through my own Bowman research to see if I can help with any certs or other official records, but there's many a chap named William BOWMAN in NSW in the 19th century.
JM
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Oh Dear, I am still trying to figure out how to use Rootschat! ;D
Thank you heaps for all your help and advice. You have made some really goos suggestions and I will definitely try to get to the bottom of this and find out which Bowman family I am a part of!! I'm a bit confused now as regards my tree ;) but you have all given me lots of info to help me along.
If you ever stumble upon a ladder over the brick wall, please let me know. :D
Kind Regards, Tiana :)
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Tiani, why don't you post names here that you think are your link to John - only mentioning those deceased - and we can most likely assist with tracing it backwards for you.
Jamjar
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This tree is very spacey, and I do not have much info. But I am more than happy to post what I know/have been told. :)
From most recent to oldest:
Una Bowman (their marriage date is known, but I have not been told it yet. So is Una's birthdate, but that also has not been told me yet).
Una was the daughter of Albert Victor Bowman (b.1903 Orange, nsw) and Mildred Evelyn nee Sollars (1910 England-1998)
Albert was the son of John Bowman (1866 Bathurst-1933??) and Rebecca nee Shepherd 1872 Orange - 1909).
John was the son of William Bowman and Rebecca Bendall.
Their known children (as I was told) are:
Mary, William, Sarah, and John
They actually match up with the births that one of you ladies found, which is interesting.
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Apparently, Rebecca Bendall may have also used the surname Bindal. That is just a rumor though.
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Do you have proof that Edward and Una are deceased. If not you will need to remove their names.
Jamjar
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Hi
Family tree may not be correct
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=julie48&id=I175
Muss
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Births to John and Rebecca:
38320/1892 Kate C WELLINGTON
38587/1893 George L WELLINGTON
15332/1900 Ellen ORANGE
5732/1902 William C ORANGE
32968/1903 Albert E ORANGE
26309/1905 Elsie M ORANGE
37307/1890 Annie N WELLINGTON
27175/1906 David N ORANGE
38468/1907 Albert V ORANGE
Jamjar
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OOps, yes. I forgot about that. I have removed Edwards name, because I believe he may still be alive. Una is deceased.
WOW. So do you think maybe I have the wrong John (as regards his birth) and the wrong father of John maybe? Possibly his father was Thomas, not William?
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hi
The john bowman who died in 1929 is not the correct John Bowman http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/159890865?searchTerm=john%20bowman&searchLimits=l-decade=192|||l-year=1929|||l-state=New+South+Wales
Muss
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Apparently, Rebecca Bendall may have also used the surname Bindal. That is just a rumor though.
That's quite possible, likely just a spelling variation.
:) Bowman has spelling variations too. :)
May I suggest an official transcription of the 1907 birth Albert (not the 1903 birth) will include names of all his older then living siblings, their ages etc as well as info about both parents (including her nee name).
JM
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Thank you muss for the heads up on that. It must be so easy to get the wrong person . . . ??? ;)
Yes majm, I will definitely look into doing that sometime in the near future. ;D Thank you for the suggestion. :)
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HI
The tree has the wrong John Bowman listed.
Muss
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Una's marriage was likely in 1948 at Narromine. If so, as that is more than 50 years ago, any member of the general public can order it, or an official transcription of it,, no ID needed.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/family-history.aspx
JM
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Births to John and Rebecca:
37307/1890 Annie N WELLINGTON
38320/1892 Kate C WELLINGTON
38587/1893 George L WELLINGTON
15332/1900 Ellen ORANGE
5732/1902 William C ORANGE
32968/1903 Albert E ORANGE
26309/1905 Elsie M ORANGE
37307/1890 Annie N WELLINGTON
27175/1906 David N ORANGE
38468/1907 Albert V ORANGE
Jamjar
The above are the children of John and Rebecca from NSWBDM
Marriages:
8820/1909 HALLIDAY GEORGE to BOWMAN ANNIE ORANGE
7267/1913 GENTLES WILLIAM J to BOWMAN MAUD K ORANGE
17195/1923 GARNSEY WILLIAM J BOWMAN to ELSIE M NARROMINE
These are the children in the 1933 Obit:
They are James (Molong), Thomas and William (Orange), Albert (Narromine), Mesdames George Halliday (this is Annie N) and W. Gentles (East Orange) (this is Maud, can't see birth) W. Garnsey (Narromine) (this is Elsie) and Miss Nellie (will be Ellen) Bowman (Sydney).
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Bit odd with Albert:
Deaths:
10530/1910 David JOHN REBECCA ORANGE
14634/1956 Thomas Henry JOHN REBECCA ORANGE
35460/1967 Albert Ernest JOHN REBECCA ORANGE
28494/1977 William Charles parent JOHN
Buried Rookwood:
Anglican Remembrance Lawn Section 1 Row 12 Grave 265
BOWMAN, William C 13 Nov 1977 78
BOWMAN, Margaret Louise 08 Jul 1982 73
Inscription: Missed by his family (Military symbol); Missed by her family
Marriage: 18698/1926 BOWMAN william C to SNOWDEN Margaret L NARROMINE
Jamjar
Added:
30967/1950 HALLIDAY Annie Revena JACK and REBECCA MARRICKVILLE
Buried Rookwood: Zone D Section 13 Grave 3743
Date Of Interment 23-12-1950
Age 62
14751/1961 GENTLES Maud Kathleen 67 YEARS DIED 14/3/61 RYDALMERE PARRAMATTA (maybe)
Buried Rookwood: Catholic Mortuary 2 & 3 Section 12 Row 25 Grave 2817
GENTLES, Maude Kathleen 14 Mar 1961 65
Inscription: Mother & Grandmother
8351/1978 GARNSEY Elsie May parent JOHN
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Hi
Death notice for Rebecca http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/157339539?searchTerm=bowman%20lookout%20station&searchLimits=l-decade=190|||l-state=New+South+Wales
Muss
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Thank you heaps! ;D
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NSW electoral roll 1902 CANOBOLAS, polling at Ophir
John BOWMAN, Kangarobie, boundary rider
Rebecca BOWMAN, Look Out, domestic duties
JM
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http://www.daltondatabank.org/Chronicles/Dalton_Bros_Orange.htm
scroll through to : The homestead at “Kangaroobie”
JM
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http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/100889888 Leader 26 June 1913
Maud Kathleen BOWMAN marries William James GENTLES ... she was given away by Samuel GENTLES, no mention of her parents in this cutting.
JM
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I can see the online image of an official transcription for the 1889 marriage of John BOWMAN and Rebecca SHEPHARD. I can see that the transcriber has NOT noted any NSW BDM reconciliation to the Church Registers, and I conclude that NSW BDM did not reconcile back to the church registers. This is NOT unusual, afterall this is not a metropolitan marriage. The elusive blanks are a) the then ages of both the bride and the groom b) the places of birth of the bride and the groom c) the occupation of the bride d) the respective fathers and mothers (including nee names) of the bride and the groom e) the respective occupations the fathers.
The marriage was according to the rites of the Church of England, at Warne, in the Wellington district, on 16 June 1889. The Reverend was John ALLDIS and the witnesses were Thos MOFFATT and A.W.E. TOM. John Bowman and Rebecca SHEPHERD both made their marks. Their usual residences were both at Kerrs Creek and John was a Blacksmith. “The consent of George Shepherd, father of the bride” was given, as Rebecca was not yet 21 years of age. The NSW BDM ref is #1889/7137
It may be worthwhile contacting the Anglican Diocese office at Bathurst to ask for further information from the church registers.
Re those elusive blanks
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,546609.0.html
JM
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HI
Catherine Shepherd wife of George Shepherd note Mrs Bowman Queensland http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/143522587?searchTerm=George%20shepherd%20kerrs%20creek&searchLimits=l-state=New+South+Wales
Muss
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HI
Catherine Shepherd wife of George Shepherd note Mrs Bowman Queensland http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/143522587?searchTerm=George%20shepherd%20kerrs%20creek&searchLimits=l-state=New+South+Wales
Muss
Possibly referring to the daughter who married William, brother of John:
7439/1893 BOWMAN William SHEPHERD Annie N WELLINGTON (I'm guessing the N stands for NARNIA ;))
Jamjar
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Hi
Abraham Bowman b 1989/17219 Father William Bowman Mother Annie Wellington NSW
died 1960/ B40085 Qld father William mother Annie Shepherd
Muss
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HI
obit for a Annie Bowman died 1954 wife of William ( brother of John ?)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/103929796?searchTerm=annie%20bowman&searchLimits=l-state=New+South+Wales|||l-decade=195|||l-year=1954
Muss
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Hi Tiani
Mildred SOLLARS a was about a year old in 1912 when she arrived in NSW per Marathon with her mother Annie Evelyn SOLLARS.
Her father William George came the previous year per Thermistoceles.
There were further children after arrival.
After Annie died in 1931, In Memoriam notices were placed in the Narromine newspaper.
This one was from 1932 and was placed by "daughter Mildred, son in law Dick, and granddaughter Una".
ickhttp://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/98921542
Also this marriage notice names the groom as D. BOWMAN..
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/99231157
There are other references to Dick BOWMAN of Narromine.
Do you remember this as a "nickname" for him?
Sue
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9850/1929 BOWMAN Albert V to SOLLARS Mildred E W NARROMINE
A mistype in the paper notice, maybe.
Could it have meant to have been Vic?
Jamjar
Yes, it was, as per engagement notice: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article141555772
Death: 7338/1983 BOWMAN Albert Victor parents JOHN and REBECCA
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The link that Sue posted, that didn't post correctly:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/98921542
Jamjar
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Marriage UK:
Marriages Mar 1907 Stroud 6a 549
SOLLARS George William to WOOLLS Annie Evelyn
Mildred's birth UK:
SOLLARS, MILDRED EVELYN WOOLLS mmn WOOLLS
GRO Reference: 1910 D Quarter in STROUD Volume 06A Page 303
On the 1911 census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X71B-D44
Births Australia:
28438/1913 Eric G NARROMINE
9282/1916 Ronald M NARROMINE
Marriage:
11696/1927 SOLLARS George A to ANDREWS Annie J NORTH SYDNEY
23928/1938 SOLLARS Ronald Melvile (sic) to KELLY Lilian Margaret NARROMINE
8183/1942 SOLLARS Thomas Raymond to DUGAN Florence Evelyn May NARROMINE
Death:
William George and Annie burial location and headstone photo, Narromine Cemetery:
http://austcemindex.com/inscription?id=7875795#images
Thomas and Florence burial location and photo of crosses, Narromine Cemetery:
http://austcemindex.com/inscription?id=7876296
http://austcemindex.com/inscription?id=7876297
27069/1981 SOLLARS Florence Evelyn May parents JOHN and VIOLET
Ronald and Lillian burial location and photo of cross and headstone:
http://austcemindex.com/inscription?id=7876342
http://austcemindex.com/inscription?id=7876343
15401/1980 SOLLARS Lillian Margaret parents WILLIAM and JULIA
George Jnr and Annie Jane burial location, Woronora Memorial Park:
George Albert Sollars 26-5-1981 Ashes Jj - Rose Garden 9 - 0194
Annie Jane Sollars 3-7-1985 Ashes Jj - Rose Garden 9 - 0195
Norman Brian Sollars 11/08/2011 24/09/2011 Ashes Jj - Rose Garden 9 - 0196
11471/1981 SOLLARS GEORGE Albert parents GEORGE and ANNIE
17682/1985 SOLLARS Annie Jane parents BERNARD WILLIAM and ELEANOR JANE
From online source:
Sollars, Eric George, Born Sep 18 1913 in Narromine, NSW, Australia, Died Oct 26 1994 in Parkes, NSW, Australia
Sollars, Mildred Evelyn, Born Sep 12 1910 in Sheepscombe, Gloucestershire, Died Oct 16 1998 in Australia
Birth of mother Annie, UK:
WOOLLS, ANNIE EVELINE mmn LEWIS
GRO Reference: 1883 J Quarter in STROUD Volume 06A Page 339
Marriage of her parents:
Marriages Dec 1879 Stroud 6a 566
WOOLLS Charles to LEWIS Mary Emma
1881 census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27J-6J3X
1891 census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:W1C2-GT2
1901 census: with sister Ivy who was mentioned on the 1911 census:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XS6W-5RS
Annie on 1901: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSDL-HP7
1911 census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:W1C2-GT2
Deaths:
Sep 1912
Woolls Mary E 53 Stroud 6a 344
Mar 1924
WOOLLS Charles 84 Stroud 6a 548
Jamjar
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Under the 'Persons advertised for':
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article13004316
"IF THIS should meet the eye of REBECCA BENDALL, your sister SARAH is in Sydney, anxious to see you. Address Mrs. Wallis, 31, Union-street."
Jamjar
The day after the above notice, (on 13th May) Sarah again placed hers notice and directly above it was one placed by sister Eliza.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/13009981
"If this should meet the eye of William or John BENDALL from Cambridgeshire, they will hear of their sister Eliza by writing to 119 Gloucester St. Sydney."
So there seems to be a lapse of 4 years between the arrival of those men and Eliza's notice.
Contact lost perhaps.
Sue
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hi
Matthew Bendall obit http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/110475652?searchTerm=MATTHEW%20BENDALL&searchLimits=
Muss
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William George Sollars
Birth:
SOLLORS, WILLIAM GEORGE mmn PARTRIDGE
GRO Reference: 1877 M Quarter in STROUD Volume 06A Page 352
Parent's marriage:
Marriages Dec 1876 Stroud 6a 651
SOLLARS Charles to PARTRIDGE Rose Matilda
1881 census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27J-66KZ
1891 census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:W1C1-M6Z
1901 census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSDL-3K2
1911 census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X71B-67N
Charles death:
Jun 1922 Stroud 6a 403
Sollars Charles 64 Rose death:
Rose death:
Mar 1929 Stroud 6a 631
Sollars Rose M 69
Jamjar
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hi
Matthew Bendall obit http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/110475652?searchTerm=MATTHEW%20BENDALL&searchLimits=
Muss
Muss, you'll find a court case re his daughter's pregnancy when they were at Emu Plains.
Jamjar
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HI
Interesting court case.
NSW BDM Marriage Sarah Bendel to John Paul no3092/1859.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/3726529
I am having fun tonight computer keys are not responding, and NBN keeps going off. Joys of researching
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HI
Interesting court case.
NSW BDM Marriage Sarah Bendel to John Paul no3092/1859.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/3726529
I am having fun tonight computer keys are not responding, and NBN keeps going off. Joys of researching
You're doing well then. ;D
1859 C428 John Paul to Sarah Bendel
Can't see a death for her with parents Charles and Susan.
Jamjar
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Thank you everyone!! You have all helped me SO much and I'm really excited by some of the things you have found for me.
I have been told there was a direct ancestor (Mother and daughter) that arrived late at the docks in England, thereby just missing their passage on the Titanic, to America. Apparently someone in the family still has the original ticket (!!). I have yet to ask to see it though, to find out their names. I have spoken to family though, and they think Mildred Sollars and her mother Annie Sollars were the ones. I will have to look into that later.
Thank you all again! I can't believe the amount of info you have managed to dig up!! I'm really, really excited. :)
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I have been told there was a direct ancestor (Mother and daughter) that arrived late at the docks in England, thereby just missing their passage on the Titanic, to America. Apparently someone in the family still has the original ticket (!!). I have yet to ask to see it though, to find out their names. I have spoken to family though, and they think Mildred Sollars and her mother Annie Sollars were the ones. I will have to look into that later.
If you go back and check the immigration details I have given for the family, you will find this story about this family to be unlikely.
Titanic departed Southampton 10th April 1912.
William George SOLLARS departed before his wife and child ( to get things set up perhaps) in August 1911 per Thermistoceles.
I don't think she would be boarding Titanic if her husband was already in Australia.
Some census notes.
Just after 1910, I can see some information about the family.
William George was a farm labourer born in Sheepscombe Gloucester
Annie was also born in Gloucester.
Apart from baby Mildred, Annie's sister Ivy WOOLLS, a domestic servant, aged 16, was living with them, the address was Sheepscombe near Stroud, Gloucester and there were 4 rooms.
Another look at Annie's shipping record on Marathon shows Ivy WOOLLS on the same voyage, a domestic.
NSW bmd index has a marriage
2637/1915
WARDMAN William T
WOOLLS Ivy G
At ROCKDALE
Sue
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Ivy's death:
20715/1983 WARDMAN Ivy Gladys parents CHARLES and MARY EMMA
At Woronora Cemetery:
Ivy Gladys Wardman 6-9-1983 Ashes
Jj - Evergreen Shrub Garden 19 - 0219
Birth:
17236/1916 WARDMAN Ivy G parents WILLIAM T and IVY G ROCKDALE
Marriage:
6385/1933 PARSONS Walter V E to WARDMAN Ivy G J HURSTVILLE
12768/1943 GRAHAM Robert Alfred to WARDMAN Merle Margaret ROCKDALE
Death:
2917/1944 GRAHAM Margaret Merle parents WILLIAM THOMAS and IVY GLADYS KOGARAH
Death and funeral notices: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article17888023
Ashes buried Woronora Cemetery:
Margaret Merle Graham 19-2-1944 Ashes Buried In Grounds
Added: Two sisters mentioned in Margaret's death notice. 4 marriages on NSWBDM, but can't confirm two deaths, so can't post marriages, as the girls may be living.
Sister Gloria:
Marriage: 502/1954 VIOLA Natale to WARDMAN Gloria Joy SYDNEY
VIOLA Gloria Joy Death notice 3-12-2010 Death The Age (Melbourne) 6-12-2010
Burial: Natale Viola
Springvale Botanical Cemetery
The cremated remains have been collected
Date of Birth: 1 September 1927
Date of Death: 5 June 2003
Date of Service: 10 June 2003
Religion: Roman Catholic
Age: 74
21721/1939 CAVEY Stanley Ronald to WARDMAN Enid Violet HURSTVILLE
7236/1986 CAVEY Violet Enid May parents WILLIAM THOMAS and IVY GLADYS
CAVEY Enid Violet May Death notice 19-3-1986 Death late of Gymea Sydney Morning Herald 21-3-1986
Woronora:
Enid Violet May Cavey 19-3-1986 Ashes Jj - Evergreen Shrub Garden 19 - 0215
Stanley Ronald Cavey 6-2-1979 Ashes Methodist Monumental - Section 1 - 0726
Jamjar
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Thank you very much for all that info. Yes, I believe you are right . . .
I will have a look at that ticket as soon as I am able to see the relative, and see what names are listed. But yes, it must not have been Mildred and Annie.
Thank you again!
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I wonder ???
Under the 'Persons advertised for':
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article13004316
"REBECCA BENDALL, your Friend WILLIAM BEAMAN is now living with Mr. JAMES BULL, of Liverpool, and would be glad to hear from you."
I have found assisted immigrants William Bowman 19 on the Northern Lights 1858
Jamjar
Difficult to know whether this man is living with James BULL of Liverpool England or Liverpool Sydney.
There does seem to have been a James BULL in Liverpool Sydney.
The timing of this advertisement is difficult to reconcile if it is actually a misprint of the surname BOWMAN (printed as BEAMAN)
The ad was published Christmas Day 1857.
The man on Northern Lights arrived May 1858
So, if Liverpool Sydney is the place, it is not BOWMAN of Northern Lights placing the ad.
Looking at census 1851. Ordsall Nottinghamshire
Poplar Street
South Retford
Ann Jackson BOWMAN, 46,Butchers wife b. Nott, Wheatley
Mary Jackson BOWMAN, 17, Daughter At Home, b. East Markham
William Jackson BOWMAN, 11, Son, Scholar., b East Markham
Head of Household is not shown
Looking at additional immigration details-
BOWMAN, William
Born East Markham, Nottinghamshire
Aged 19
Butcher
Parents, John and Ann. Mother at Redford.
Can R and W
The age difference between this William BOWMAN and Rebecca BENDALL (per immigration information) is notable.
You need the birth certificate of one of the children, as has been suggested,
Sue
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Wow, thank you Jamjar and Sparrett!
So much info and things to consider. I'm totally loving this!!
You are both amazing, thank you!! ;D
Tiani
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FYI
I have access to burials which have Memorial Inscriptions for Orange Cemetery.
There is not an entry for Rebecca BOWMAN who died at Orange (mullion Creek) in 1899.
Sue
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Oh Dear!! ??? ::) ;)
Guess I will have to figure out where she vanished to. ;D
Thank you for the heads up. :)
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I wonder ???
Under the 'Persons advertised for':
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article13004316
"REBECCA BENDALL, your Friend WILLIAM BEAMAN is now living with Mr. JAMES BULL, of Liverpool, and would be glad to hear from you."
I have found assisted immigrants William Bowman 19 on the Northern Lights 1858
Jamjar
Difficult to know whether this man is living with James BULL of Liverpool England or Liverpool Sydney.
There does seem to have been a James BULL in Liverpool Sydney.
The timing of this advertisement is difficult to reconcile if it is actually a misprint of the surname BOWMAN (printed as BEAMAN)
The ad was published Christmas Day 1857.
The man on Northern Lights arrived May 1858
So, if Liverpool Sydney is the place, it is not BOWMAN of Northern Lights placing the ad.
.....
I think it is Liverpool, NSW :) :) I offer :
In 1800 James BULL (also transcribed as BUCE) arrived (came free) a Corporal with NSW Corps.
1814
MUSTER has James BULL per Minerva at Landholder, Liverpool NSW, Ann BULL, wife, and 7 children.
1815
James born 31 Dec 1815, son of James and Ann BULL, baptised 11 August 1816, recorded in the parish register of St Philip’s C of E, Sydney. (Note, there’s also a James BULL born 5 Nov 1807, son of James and Ann BULL, baptised 27 Nov 1807, by Rev Henry FULTON, recorded in parish register of St Philip’s . There’s a burial for a lad, James BULL, aged 7 years 6 months, died 12 Jan 1815, buried 13 Jan 1815, burial recorded in St Philip’s register).
1818
James BULL per Minerva, received grant of land, Liverpool
1820
March 3, James BULL received payment for meat and grain delivered to Commissariat Stores Liverpool
1822
James BULL of Liverpool died 23 Oct 1822, aged 43, buried 24 Oct by Rev Robert CARTWRIGHT, burial recorded in the parish register of St Luke’s C of E, Liverpool.
1828 Census
James BULL aged 13, protestant, born in the colony, residence at BULL’S FARM, Cabramatta (ie District of Liverpool).
1837 Parish Register Marriage :)
Second August 1837
James BULL, bachelor, of Liverpool and Maria SMITH, spinster of Liverpool,
1887
28 September
NSW BDM death cert
At Bull’s Hill, Liverpool
James BULL, farmer, 72 years, son of James BULL, officer in the army and Ann (nee unknown)
Buried 30 Sept 1887, St Lukes, Liverpool
Born Sydney NSW, married Sydney NSW at age 23 years to Maria SMITH
Informant: John Bull of Bull’s Hill, Liverpool, son of deceased.
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=161233464&ref=acom
I agree, re it cannot be the William BOWMAN arriving on Northern Lights. ;D
JM
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Oh Dear!! ??? ::) ;)
Guess I will have to figure out where she vanished to. ;D
Thank you for the heads up. :)
There is not a Memorial Inscription (headstone) but that does not mean she is not buried there.
Many could not afford headstones.
If there, her name should be on the burial register.
There are a few other small cemeteries in the surrounding district.
This link will give you means of contact to some of them for inquiries about their records.
http://www.orange.nsw.gov.au/site/index.cfm?display=147048
The transcript of the birth certificate of a child of the couple is the means to move forward with your search for your direct ancestors. See above posts for the information you can expect to see on the document.
JM's information goes a long way to settling the question of John BULL (of Liverpool) ;D
Now I am wondering about the identity of the chap was who was seeking Rebecca BENDALL via the advertisement. A William BEAMAN or another William BOWMAN, not per Northern Lights, with whom Rebecca seems to have had a prior relationship?
Sue
??? ::)
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:)
I have not YET found a William BEAMAN ::) in or around Liverpool ... circa 1857 ... :) but I am still searching
JM
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Added: Only 2 Rebecca deaths beween 1872 and 1940:
10481/1909 BOWMAN Rebecca parents GEORGE and KATE at ORANGE
6766/1899 BOWMAN Rebecca parent JOHN DIED MULLION CREEK at ORANGE - I think it's this one.
Jamjar
This is the birth of Rebecca nee SHEPERD who married John BOWMAN.
SHEPHERD Rebecca
16005/1873
Parents George and Catherine
At ORANGE
Parental details match the death index above 1910
A child of hers, David N. BOWMAN died at Mullion Creek, so that couple were living there in 1910.
BOWMAN David
10530/1910
Parents John and Rebecca
At ORANGE
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/139396603
Possible Rebecca BOWMAN, mother of John BOWMAN was with them in edit1899 and thus is recorded as dying there that year.
Sue
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Yes, that is as it is in the tree previously linked to by Muss.
Except you have: Possible Rebecca BOWMAN, mother of John BOWMAN was with them in 1999 and thus is recorded as dying there that year. ;)
Jamjar
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Hi
Family tree may not be correct
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=julie48&id=I175
Muss
I do always regard online trees with caution and, as Muss mentions this one needs did have errors.
6766/1899 BOWMAN Rebecca parent JOHN DIED MULLION CREEK at ORANGE - I think it's this one.
Jamjar
Possible Rebecca BOWMAN, mother of John BOWMAN was with them in 1899 edit and thus is recorded as dying there that year.
Sue
Sorry to have confused you.
REBECCA BOWMAN, the mother of John BOWMAN, the husband of Rebecca (Nee SHEPHERD) may have been with her son in 1899-the year that Rebecca ( the mother) died at MULLION CREEK with the death registered in Orange
Her son’s wife Rebecca BOWMAN (nee SHEPHERD) died in 1910 and there is evidence as given in the death of the boy David, that they were at Mullion Creek in 1910.
Perhaps they had been there since at least 1899 with Rebecca, the mother being with them when she died.
Thus, your thoughts about the 1899 death seem probable.
Sue
EDIT. Corrects typo to 1899
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Sue it's the 1999 that has me confuddled ???:
Quote: Perhaps they had been there since at least 1999 with Rebecca, the mother being with them when she died.
Jamjar
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A typing slip.
Read instead 1899 and all will be clear
Sue
Editing to clarify
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Thank you so much for ALL your help. I am really excited by what everyone is finding out. I am very interested to see who this William Bowman is who was looking for Rebecca. . . .
I have a terrific flue at the moment, so I have not been doing much research, but I enjoy reading what you are all finding out. When I am well I will have lots of fun!! ;D
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Thank you so much for ALL your help. I am really excited by what everyone is finding out. I am very interested to see who this William Bowman is who was looking for Rebecca. . . .
I have a terrific flue at the moment, so I have not been doing much research, but I enjoy reading what you are all finding out. When I am well I will have lots of fun!! ;D
Please do keep in mind the info I posted at reply #42. I am concerned that without first obtaining the information from the Anglican church registers for the marriage of John BOWMAN and Rebecca SHEPHERD in 1889, you actually have no confirmation of that particular John BOWMAN’s parents ... the dots are not yet taking you back to that newspaper cutting in 1857.
JM
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Yes, I am planning on contacting the Anglican Church registrars as soon as I am a bit better.
Thank you very much for your help, as I would never have known to contact that particular registrar otherwise.
Tiani
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I'm still a bit new to all this . . . I'm wondering if you could point me in the right direction. I went to this website:
http://www.bathurstanglican.org.au/Default.aspx?PageID=2890193&A=SearchResult&SearchID=10612628&ObjectID=2890193&ObjectType=1
But i did not know if this was where I asked about family history related things, at the same time I could not find anything on the website that did relate to it.
Is it the wrong website? Or do I just email through that contact page and see what happens?? ;)
Thank you!
Tiani
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I'm still a bit new to all this . . . I'm wondering if you could point me in the right direction. I went to this website:
http://www.bathurstanglican.org.au/Default.aspx?PageID=2890193&A=SearchResult&SearchID=10612628&ObjectID=2890193&ObjectType=1
But i did not know if this was where I asked about family history related things, at the same time I could not find anything on the website that did relate to it.
Is it the wrong website? Or do I just email through that contact page and see what happens?? ;)
Thank you!
Tiani
I'd start with an email to the Bishops Registrar at the address given on that page.
Jamjar
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Ok, thank you Jamjar! ;D
Tiani
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Yes :)
I have just checked NSW BDM online info
"From 1856 to 1951: records are mostly digital reproductions of handwritten entries in registers. Where ink is faded or the record deteriorated, this is converted to computer format. Many marriage registers, particularly 1856 - 1890's, don't show all the details which the church may still record. Some entries were updated based on information from church societies. "
and
The Registry's records from these years are not complete and it can be worthwhile for genealogists to contact the relevant church to find details missing from a marriage certificate
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/registry-records.aspx
BUT they still don't note that the Church records are not 'public' records.
JM
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I am 'speculating' .... I have been trying to find "all" NSW possibles for John BOWMAN, born 1866, as a son of William ... and I think there's at least TWO lads born in 1866 in NSW ... one met a tragic death in 1902 ...
There is a burial in the Anglican section of Baradine Cemetery for a John BOWMAN who died 23 June 1902. Aged 36. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVBX-MTWV
Tragic accident : http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/157698790 Mudgee Guardian 3 July 1902
From the NSW BDM online index that chap’s parents are recorded on the death cert as William and Mary. #8918, registered Coonabarabran district.
May I note that at NSW BDM online there’s a baptism indexed for 1866, Volume 121B, line 4331, John, son of William and Mary BOWMAN.
That 1866 baptism may well be a red herring, as there’s a birth registered at Bathurst that is noted in the Opening Post: John, son of William and Rebecca BOWMAN #5416, and it is entirely possible that neither of those lads was the groom in the 1889 marriage.
The 1902 burial at Baradine Cemetery could be either of those lads born in 1866, or may be someone born interstate or overseas.
I have not found William BEAMAN ::) ::) ::)
ADD, yes the Obit posted earlier on this thread clearly shows John BOWMAN's birth as Evan's Plains, near Bathurst, and his age as 67 and he died in 1933. :) http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/99237315
JM.
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Thank you heaps majm!
You have helped so much!!!! I emailed the church yesterday, but have not heard back from them yet. But hopefully soon. ;D
That info you found about the two John Bowmans is interesting! Goodness, it would be nice to know which one was mine!!!!!! ??? ;) I'm sure it will all come out soon.
I will look into all the info you have given me, and I will post on here whatever I get back from the church, if they reply. :)
Thank you again,
Tiani
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:)
Please don't expect an immediate answer giving the information from the original parish register. It can take time for a volunteer to undertake the lookup :)
JM
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Evans Plains …. BENDALL from Cambridge …. Some speculations to have at hand ‘just in case’ …
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/223580809 NSW Govt Gazette 6 Oct 1874
In the will of George BENDALL late of Evans Plains, near Bathurst, farmer …. Granted to Charlotte BENDALL…
NSW BDM George BENDALL, parents as Edward and Sarah, death registered Bathurst #3829/1874
Possible:
George (aged 25) and Charlotte (29) BENDALL as husband and wife arriving per Castilian in 1858. George as Ag Lab, from Cambridge, C of E, read and write, Charlotte of Huntingdon, Church of England, read.
http://indexes.records.nsw.gov.au/ebook/list.aspx?series=NRS5316&item=4_4795&ship=Castilian
George’s parents recorded on immigration papers as Edward and Sarah LIVING at Bottisham. He has a sister in NSW, Mrs Taylor, Lachlan River. George recorded as born Bottisham.
Charlotte’s parents recorded as John & Charlotte PICKEN, LIVING at Cambridge. Charlotte recorded as born Broughton, Huntingdon. No relatives in NSW.
Possible 1853 (July-Sept Qtr) marriage
George BENDALL and Charlotte PICKEN Cambridgeshire, GRO Vol 3b/725
1867 Walter Samson NSW National Directory
WEST MACQUARIE
G BENDALL, Mount Pleasant.
W BOWMAN Richmond
W BOWMAN Mount Pleasant
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/223579978 NSW Govt Gazette 11 Sept 1874 … Public School Board appointments…
Evans Plains, Mr George BENDALL.
Possible 1853 (July-Sept Qtr) marriage
George BENDALL and Charlotte PICKEN Cambridgeshire, GRO Vol 3b/725
George BENDALL was buried in the Bathurst Cemetery, aged 42 (transcription has it as 1871)
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=bendall&GSiman=1&GScid=2144816&GRid=49104733&
George and Charlotte’s immigration papers do NOT show any children accompanying them, and I cannot find any NSW births for them either. Mrs Taylor of Lachlan River … Taylor is one of the most popular surnames in NSW in that era.
JM
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more speculations ...
From a SUBMITTED tree (re Mrs Taylor, sister to George Bendall)
Sarah BENDALL, sister of George BENDALL was born Bottisham 14 July 1830, and married 4 November 1852 to Charles TAYLOR. Polly (Mary Ann Cubis TAYLOR) was born at Bottisham 17 July 1853 and Arthur Seaborn TAYLOR was born on the Washington Irving en route to Australia in 1857, but he did not survive the voyage. Charlotte Taylor was born at Carcoar in 1859 ; George William Taylor was born 7 July 1861 at Evans Plains, Bathurst; Charles Arthur Taylor born 1863 at Evans Plains; Sarah E Taylor born 1866, Bathurst; Edith Osborne Taylor born 1872 Orange and Maud Mary Taylor born 1876 Orange.
Sarah’s husband died 2 May 1888 at Petersham, and Sarah died Petersham 12 May 1910.
From my armchair searching online :
Here’s the Washington Irving passenger list for September 1857. Page 10 shows 1 male death on the voyage. Remembering that among the single females on this same voyage is a Rebecca BENDALL aged 23, of Fulbourne, Cams, parents as Charles & Susan (mother at Fulbourne, father dead) C of E, can Read, and a sister Eliza BENDALL per ‘Vocalist’ and there’s no mention in that paperwork of any connection between the passengers Sarah Taylor nee Bendall and Rebecca Bendall. http://indexes.records.nsw.gov.au/ebook/list.aspx?series=NRS5316&item=4_4794&ship=Washington%20Irving
Immigration papers show the TAYLOR family, (mis-transcribed as Paylor) including Sarah aged 27, wife, born Bottisham, Cambridge, parents as Edward & Sarah (living, but surname not on these papers) at Bottisham, C of E, read and write, no relatives in the colony.
JM
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Just adding a little to JM's research and as said, in case it is of use in further searchings.
One of the sisters of George BENDALL was Sarah BENDALL born in 1830 at Bottisham, Cambridge .
https://www.familysearch.org/
She married
Marriages Dec 1852
BENDALLSarah
TAYLOR Charles Wilden
3b 1175 Newmarket
Here is a In Memoriam for his death in NSW.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/13685249
So this would be the Mrs TAYLOR, relation of George per his immigration record.
Sue
ADDING
Charles W and Sarah TAYLOR arrived with a 3 year old daughter in Sept 1857 per Washington Irving. He was a farm lab. No relatives in the colony.
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Hi
Just a thought a William Bowman died 1910/ no 2622 Nyngan NSW age 76
William was alive 1875 he gave permission for the marriage of his daughter Sarah
Muss
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Thank you so much for all that info! wow. I will look into everything as soon as I am well. I'm really unwell at the moment.
Kind Regards,
Tiana
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Hello, I have just come across this site and was browsing through your posts. A couple of interesting points, I am the niece of Mildred Sollars and Dick Bowman Narromine NSW. I only ever knew him as "Dick", everyone called him Dick. He was a wonderful uncle and I loved him dearly, as I did Aunty Millie. Grandfather William George Sollars, known as George, arrived 1911 as stated in your information. He worked on the railway at Junee NSW and when Annie, Mildred and Ivy arrived in Sydney, the family were advised to move to a warmer climate on account of Millies health, so they moved to Narromine. Aunty Millie did say they were booked to sail on the "Titanic" but due to Annie and Ivys mother falling ill just prior to sailing, their trip was postponed until 1912. Sadly their mother passed away.
I do recall Uncle Dick had a sister, Thelma, who married a Reagan, they often visited Uncle Dick and Aunty Millie. The name Haliday was also associated with Uncle Dick, but I can't remember in what capacity.
Not sure if this helps or not, but best of luck. Cheers Joy
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Try the museum@orange.nsw.gov.u
They maintain all of the Historical records for the area you are looking for also search the telephone register for Wellington NSW Australia
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Make that Museum@orange.nsw.gov.au