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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: RoyW46 on Monday 21 August 17 20:50 BST (UK)
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Can somebody help me please?
I am looking into the life of my Grandfather's [George Henry Willard] Father-in-law: SAMUEL MARTIN.
Samuel was born in Salehurst, Sussex c.1815, the son of HANNAH and JOHN MARTIN. I would guess that his early life he became an Agricultural Labourer in and around the Parish of Salehurst, Sussex. This occupation stayed with him throughout his life.
On 27th March 1835 at St Mary's Parish Church he married SOPHIA BAKER. Over a few years Sophia gave birth to children at least six times: HARRIETT, HANNAH, JAMES, CHRISTIANA, JAMES AND THOMAS.
CHRISTIANA MARTIN married THOMAS WILLARD in 1871 and in June 1886 gave birth to my Grandfather: George Henry Willard. I was born in 1946 and my Grandfather lived just 50 yards away from my family until he died in 1965.
From Census and Land Valuation Act records I know that in:
1841 SAMUEL MARTIN with wife SOPHIA and children: HARRIOT, HANNAH and one THOMAS BAKER age 15-19yrs was living at Abbey Park Cottages, Salehurst.
1851 SAMUEL MARTIN with wife SOPHIA and children: HARRIETT, HANNAH, JAMES, CHRISTIANA, JAMES ARCHER [Broth-in-law], THOMAS ARCHER [Nephew] and LYDIA ARCHER [Niece], was still living at Abbey Park Cottages, Salehurst.
1861 SAMUEL MARTIN with wife SOPHIA and children: JAMES, CRISTEY MARTIN [Christiana] and HARRY or HARRIETT MARTIN age 4yrs, living at Parks Pond, Cripps Corner, Ewhurst, Sussex.
In 1962 at Salehurst, Samuel's wife SOPHIA MARTIN nee BAKER passed away.
On 7th May 1865 at Ewhurst, Sussex SAMUEL MARTIN [Widower] married HARRIET SEYMORE [a widow]
In 1871 SAMUEL MARTIN with wife HARRIET and son HENRY age 14yrs are living at the Pesthouse, Poppinghole Lane, Salehurst, At the same house are ELIZABETH WILLARD and sons: HENRY, THOMAS and GEORGE. Elizabeth is related to Samuel Martins daughter Christiana who married Thomas Willard.
I am trying to find out the history of Samuel Martin's second wife: Harriet Seymore (?), but in all of the records I have looked at there are so many Samuel Martin's marrying a Harriet Seymore or similar that I now have a mental block. Harriet's surname has varied from: SEYMORE to SEYMOOR, SEYMOUR, SEGMORE and SEXMORE, obviously transcription issues sometimes, but I am not sure even then if I have got the right person assuming that each of the transcribed names point to one particular person. Also how can I learn what her maiden name was?
SAMUEL MARTIN aged 71yrs died in 1886
Any ideas, suggestions, clues would be appreciated. Apologies for the essay!!
Marriage Registration Records at Battle, Sussex for 1865, Vol 2b Page 68 for both.
Many thanks
Roy Willard
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I like essays!
If you haven't already discovered it then you will find this site interesting
http://www.mandywillard.co.uk/
Doesn't the 1865 marriage record for Samuel and Harriet give names of both fathers? That should give Harriet's maiden name. It is easily found on www.freebmd.org.uk (ref June 1865 Battle 2B 68) so you could order the certificate, though the church register should give the same details. I see from the 1871 census that Harriet is much older than Samuel so born c1802. Have you looked for her as Seymore and variants in earlier census records?
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Harriet is elusive I agree. There is a possible burial in Salehurst for her in 1873 aged 71 which would fit with the 1871 census when she is 69.
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Sillgen
Thank you for replying, I was aware of a HARRIET MARTIN dying in 1871 and I am sure that you are right, the location and dates tie in.
The problem that sort of baffles me is that when HARRIET SEYMORE married SAMUEL MARTIN in 1865 she was a widow from a previous marriage. It could be that her maiden name was WILLS or WELLS.
I am not in a position to keep on buying: Birth, Marriage & Death Certificates, I have done that for some members of my family (Willards) but at nine or ten pounds a time for sheet of paper becomes rather expensive.
As a result I have used other sources, in particular Newspaper reports from the 19th and early 20th Century, for me that has been very informative and pleasing, I have learnt about the Willards and other families (from the Salehurst-Robertsbridge area of Sussex) that have interested me, even records of my father that I was unaware of.
Thanks again
Roy
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Sillgen
I should have put 1873 not 1871 for date of death re HARRIET MARTIN
Best regards
Roy
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The marriage is indexed on FamilySearch, taken from mf 1067150.
The Ewhurst marriage registers, 1754-1881, are on mf 1067149
1067150 includes banns
Samuel Martin, Widower +
Harriet Seymore, Widow
Banns called 23, 30 April, 7 May
So that is a banns record they have indexed.
Two pages, 108 + 109, in the marriage register are missing on the digital images on FamilySearch.
They could well have been missed by the microfilm technician when originally filming the register.
Page 110 has the marriage of Joseph Alexander + Elizabeth Maria Eldridge, 27 May.
In the GRO indexes this is June qtr 1865, 2b 69.
Samuel Martin and Harriet Seymore are indexed on page 68.
Ewhust BT's include marriages up to 1868, but there appears to be nothing sent from Ewhurst for 1865.
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Hi Roy,
I descend from the Williams family of the Salehurst/Robertsville area.
I'd appreciate information on the "other sources" you've used (newspapers etc) particularly any that are available on line.
Thanks. Jann
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Hello Jann
I cannot tell you the websites on 'Rootschat', this site has protocols that I respect and have to follow.
I can give you my email address and if you wish to contact me then please do so.
I was born in Robertsbridge in 1946, I married and moved to Hastings in 1974 after I built my house. My parents lived in Robertsbridge until they passed away in 1997-98. I still visit the village to see my three aunts (my Dad's sisters), they are aged 82yrs, 89yrs and 95yrs.
You can write to me at: (*) or (*)
Look forward to hearing from you
Roy
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail addresses removed in accordance with RootsChat policy, to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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On 7th May 1865 at Ewhurst, Sussex SAMUEL MARTIN [Widower] married HARRIET SEYMORE [a widow]
This is the last calling of the banns.
You could order up the marriage certificate here
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp
If you do, let us know how you get on.
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this site has protocols that I respect and have to follow.
"Please do not include personal contact details in postings.
This includes e-mail addesses, postal addresses, telephone numbers, etc"
http://www.rootschat.com/help/posting_guide.php
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Jonw65
Sorry about that, I was not sure how to give information to Jann that involved other websites.
Regards
Roy
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Jonw65
Thank you, I will have to think on that one, only because Harriet Martin (Seymore) would not have been directly related.
Aside from that, my Grandfather: George Henry Willard married Ethel Every in December 1909 either at Lewes or Crowborough Sussex, apart from the Record Office where would I find evidence of the Banns for their marriage?
Thanks for your help
Roy
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Jonw65
Sorry about that, I was not sure how to give information to Jann that involved other websites.
Regards
Roy
Our personal message system is designed to give information that cannot be posted on the boards, such as email addresses. Click on the letter icon under the user name and follow instructions.
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Roy,
Thanks much for the offer. I will send you a personal message via Rootschat's system.
My 3x great grandfather died just shy of 100. Must be the water!
Jann
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The 1909 Willard/Every marriage was in the Lewes district. www.freebmd.org.uk is a very useful site though you have to remember that each registration district covers a lot of villages.
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Sillgen
Thank you
Roy
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It could be that her maiden name was WILLS or WELLS.
Marriage at All Saints Hastings, 19 April 1851
Thomas Seymour, of full age, Widower, Laborer, father Thomas Wallerd, Laborer
+
Harriet Wills, of full age, Widow, Charwoman, father Stephen Adams, Laborer
residence for both All Saints
Both marked
Witnessed by John Cox, Francis Sinden
1851 census, in St Clements, Hastings (piece 1635 folio 323 page 50)
12 East Parade
Harriot Wills Head Widow 49 Laundress, born Robertsbridge Sussex
Mary Wills Visitor Widow 58, born Middlesex
Matilda Wills Visitor Mar 19 Middlesex
Jane Wills Visitor 5 mo Middlesex
Other household at number 12 is headed up by John Cox, House Agent. Possibly the marriage witness?
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Baptism at Salehurst, 16 May 1802
Harriet, Daughter of Stephen & Frances Adams
There is a possible burial in Salehurst for her in 1873 aged 71 which would fit with the 1871 census when she is 69.
12th January 1873
Harriett Martin
Age 71
Abode Poppinghole Lane
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Thank you Jon
I will take a closer look later when I am back at home.
Regards
Roy
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Thomas Seymour, of full age, Widower, Laborer, father Thomas Wallerd, Laborer
On the marriage, the father's name looks a little more like Wallerd than Willard, but anyway
1861, Salehurst (piece 571 folio 47 page 18)
Thomas Williard Head Mar 55 Ag Lab Sussex Salehurst
Harriett Williard Wife Mar 59 Sussex Salehurst
There's this death reg, might be him
Dec 1862 Ticehurst 2b 51
Seymour, Thomas
age 59
Burial at Salehurst, 29th November 1862
Thomas Seymour
age 62
abode North Bridge Street
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Hello Roy, I won't go into great details as this is an old site so not sure if your email address is still current. I am descended from John and Hannah Martin's son Henry (brother to your Samuel). Henry and his wife Dorothea Taylor emigrated to Australia in 1838. Dawn
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Hi Dawn, Welcome to RootsChat Roy was last online in May ;)
Regards
Sarah
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Hello Dawn
Very nice to hear from you.
I can see some of my Posts and the replies date back to 2017.
I recognise the name of Samuel Martin, he was the father of Christiana Martin.
Christiana Martin married Thomas Willard on 4th November 1871 at St Mary's Parish Church, Salehurst, Sussex.
One of the children of this marriage was George Henry Willard 1886-1965 he was the father of my father: George Alfred Willard 1911-1997. I was born in 1946.
So I have a photograph of Christiana Willard nee Martin and my father and grandfather. Out of interest Christiana was known as Kate throughout her married life and as a Widow.
I am using my grandsons computer in his bedroom at the moment, so he's going to bed shortly-early riser for work!!
It would be nice if we could contact by email, I do not use Face book etc. At the moment I cannot remember the procedure to contact each other, but I look forward to hearing from you.
Kind regards
Roy
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Roy I can't seem to be able to privately message which is a bit of a nuisance. Probably something to do with Rootschat being so old. Do you have a tree on ancestry or MyHeritage that I can message through there? The photo is lovely, but I haven't tried to download it yet. I have a photo of Henry & Dorothea that I can send to you if interested but would prefer to do it through email. . Dawn
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Probably something to do with Rootschat being so old.
Not at all, new members do not have access to the PM option until they have made 2 posts to prove that they are genuine folk.
Sarah
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Thanks Sarah, I hope I can now message. I did have an old account from years ago, but couldn't remember any details and just presumed due to how long the forum has been around that it had something to do with that.