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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Essex => England => Essex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: warwickb on Wednesday 23 August 17 07:01 BST (UK)
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Hi
Robert Laver m Hannah Fairhead 10 March 1789 at St Michael Archangel in Braintree. Hannah is from the neighbouring Parish in Bocking.
Robert is probably the Robert Laver b Aug 24th, bapt Sept 29th 1762 to Robert (snr) and Henrietta in the same Parish. This couple don't appear to have any other children unless I've missed them.
I have a couple of potential requests for assistance please:
I have identified that there are in the immediate years prior to 1762 several children born to a Robert and Sarah Laver : Elizabeth in 1760; Elizabeth in 1759, Henry in 1755 and also Henry in 1754. I haven't managed to check the burials and wondered if Sarah died and Robert remarried or are there two Roberts. (There don't appear to be too many Lavers in the Parish)?
The marriage of Robert & Henrietta is not in this parish - has anyone spotted a marriage in a neighbouring parish?
What are the most likely neighbouring parish's to search?
Finally I can't locate a birth for Hannah Fairhead in Bocking. Has anyone spotted a birth in a neighbouring parish. Also on Ancestry there are a number of family trees referring to Hannah Fairchild. I'm presuming this is a mistake.
Any assistance please would be greatly received.
Regards
Warwick
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Hi again
Have found this evening a listing in Boyds Marriage Index for 1751 for Robert Laver m Sarah King in Black Notley on the south west side of Braintree.
Cheers
Warwick
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Hi again
Have found this evening a listing in Boyds Marriage Index for 1751 for Robert Laver m Sarah King in Black Notley on the south west side of Braintree.
Cheers
Warwick
Robert was a widower and Sarah, single from Braintree, 3rd November.
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Wow ... your Robert Laver senior was unlucky! When he married Sarah, he was a widower. Found the marriage before that in cressing 1/8/1748 to Hannah bird. He was a widower then too!!
They had a daughter Sarah 6/1/1751. Hannah died 23/3/1751.
Braintree marriage for Robert laver and Henrietta bedwell 1761. No date on the record. HOWEVER ... he is down as a batchelor. She is a spinster. Maybe he didn't want to frighten her off with three dead wives already??
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Hi
Thank you both for that information- very helpful. Yes Nannyj if he did lose two wives very unlucky.
I wonder if anyone can find if and when Sarah died? (circa 1760/1?) and Robert's marriage to Henrietta? which might 'prove' that Robert (if he was a widower?) who married Henrietta is the same Robert who was husband to Hannah Bird and Sarah King.
The ultimate aim here is to
1. find to more about Henrietta
2. see if I can identify the parish to find the birth and parentage of Robert (sen) (who married Henrietta's). If the two Roberts are the same person then given Robert (husband of Sarah) named both his first two sons Henry I'm thinking his father might be Henry. Also we now have first marriage in Cressing and second marriage in Black Notley.
Interested to see if others can turn anything else up.
Thank you again.
Regards
Warwick
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There are no other Henriettas mentioned in any of the neighbouring parishes so I would be very surprised if this wasn't your Henrietta. Especially as the dates all tie in.
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Thanks NannyJ
With my work distractions this morning I missed your Henrietta Bedwell reference - that is very good to get.
That is great to have and yes I agree that on the likelihood it's the same person.
That's good to get.
Now have to find first marriage for Robert and births for both Robert and Henrietta too.
Thank you again.
Cheers
Warwick
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Could this be her burial in Braintree?
Heneritta Laver
buried 22 January 1830
age 87
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-YSLS-X3K?i=2195&cc=1465710&cat=488747
Which, if her age was reasonably accurate, puts her birth year around 1742
She would have been approximately 19 when she married Robert Laver in 1761.
Are you sure that this man had previous wives, nannyj said he was a bachelor.
NBI has a burial of a Robert Laver in Braintree in 1781
Two Roberts seem to have died as infants (1787, 1794)
Then, finally, a Robert Laver buried at Braintree, 1 Feb 1833, age 70 (possibly the son of Robert + Henrietta)
John
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Jon
Hi
Thank you for that additional information - that will be her and good to have her burial. Also explains way some Ancestry trees are showing her birth circa 1742/3.
Nannyj suggested that a reason he called himself a bachelor was possibly that he already had 3 wives and didn't want to scare Henrietta off. What might add weight to this would be if we could find a death for a Sarah Laver circa 1760/61?
By chance does the NBI listing for Robert Laver dying in 1781 have an age?
Yes the Robert buried in 1833 is considered as Robert and Henrietta's son having been born in August 1762.
Thanks again for that information.
Regards
Warwick
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Hi Again
Just when I thought I was getting somewhere and we had one Robert Laver I've found another Robert Laver marriage in Cressing on IGI
This Robert Laver m Elizabeth Strange in 1754!
Interested to know if a this Robert is widower or bachelor and if any burials for Elizabeth.
Cheers
Warwick
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They have a child George 29/9/1754.
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The record is partly destroyed but he was a widower and it looks like she was too! If there were two children both born to Robert laver in 1754, they're either different Roberts or he's a bigamist?!
There's also a baptism of George laver, son of Robert and Elisabeth, aged 35 (but the word after the 35 is unclear) on 29/8/1755.
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Many thanks again NannyJ
I think I really need to confirm when both Sarah and Elizabeth die as that will give a clue whether their Robert Laver was available to remarry in 1761 or whether we have three Robert Lavers.
Also still need to find Henrietta Bedwell's birth. (Surnames on IGI could be Bedell, Beadle, Beadel, Bedel, Beedell).
Any suggestions from others very much appreciated.
Cheers
Warwick
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I've checked cressing, Braintree and black notley parish registers so far. No deaths for Sarah or elisabeth. Also no birth for Hannah in those or bocking.
There's also a James laver having children in cressing. If we could find his birth it might lead us to Robert?
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Burial date for Robert Laver, according to the NBI, was 21 June 1781. No age given
They have burials in Braintree of
Elizth Laver, 6 March 1759
Sarah Laver, 17 March 1753
If there is any more info that would identify them, e.g.wife of, or daughter of, it would need a look up in the parish register.
They may of course have already been eliminated by Rootschatters.
John
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duplicate post, sorry!
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On the prs only their names are given, not wife of etc.
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I've found children of a Robert and Elizabeth laver at Braintree. Henry 23/5/1742, Ann 4/1/1747, Sarah 25/4/1747 and Elizabeth 7/6/1749. Can't help felling there's two Roberts here.
The Robert who married Hannah bird, can't be the same one who was having children with Elizabeth 1742 - 1749, as he married Hannah in 1748.
The Robert who married Elizabeth strange can't have been married to the Robert who married Sarah as they were having children at the same time.
so there must be two or three Roberts ????
I'm getting lost but I think the options could be:
One who married Hannah maybe and then Sarah and then henrietta maybe.
One who married Elizabeth strange and possibly Henrietta after?
The Elizabeth having children 1742 to 1749 could have been a first wife to either OR
I found a Robert baptised to Robert and Elizabeth 13/7/1739 so the 1742 to 1749 would be his siblings.
I also found a Robert baptised to Robert and Esther laver 17/8/1735.no more children for this pair.
Trying to find a marriage 1730s for Robert and Esther and another for Robert and elisabeth. Also a possible death for Esther.
Lots or bedwells in area but can't find henrietta's baptism.
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Thank you both very much.
This is definitely getting complicated and a puzzle.
Agreed we have at least two Roberts and possibly a third. I need some time to work out the permutations.
That said:
Robert 1 (who marries Elizabeth UNK pre 1742) would probably be born circa 1722 or earlier)
Robert 2 (who marries Hannah Bird 1748 was already a widower and therefore likely born circa mid 1720's or earlier as well). Therefore there is another earlier marriage out there.
If my Robert who m Henrietta (aged 19) in 1761 was one of these two he would have been at around 40 or older. Not improbable but I note Jon's observation about him being a bachelor. If he was bachelor and a similar age to Henrietta he would be born circa 1740/42.
Robert (1761) son of Robert & Henrietta named his children in order Ann, Robert, Elizabeth & George. Conventional naming would suggest first b daughter after wife's mother, first son after father's father (Robert?), second daughter after fathers mother - that would be Elizabeth which would point to Robert 1 above.
Therefore locating Robert 1's marriage to Elizabeth and seeing if any earlier children i.e a Robert might be helpful.
Thank you again NannyJ and Jon
Cheers
Warwick
PS I'm in the other side of the world in NZ so reacting to this with time difference!
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Ha. I noticed th NZ bit.
I'm just looking at bocking as there is a Joshua laver who marries in cressing around the same time for a 1720s Robert or a 1730s marriage..
I did find Esther's death: 18/8/1734 cressing.
I also found a Sarah born to Robert and Elizabeth laver 29/6/1735 ... so it's looking like this elisabeth followed Esther at any rate?
It might make Roberts birth, and theirs, more like 1710. In my experience the traditional naming is father and mothers names for first girl and boy, not grandparents.
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Thank you Nannj for your continued help
You mention Esther - I may have missed it but is there a Robert m to an Esther too?
If you found a Sarah b 1735 to Robert & Elizabeth and then we have Henry b 1742 there is a gap there of a few years - likely other children too.
Yep you are right - it is parents birth first - so going back to Robert 1761 works for father but doesn't for mother!
Regards
Warwick
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Yes ... go back four posts. I know what you mean ... I'm having to write it all down!
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Thank you - agreed a lot of information - and meant to be doing some work too!
I'll take a look over lunch. I like the look of that of those Robert births!
Cheers
Warwick
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Meant to say ... the Robert of Robert and Esther 1735 is buried the day after he was baptised, so discount him. Think the 1739 one could be the. Husband of Henrietta and father of your 1762 one. Maybe the others are red herrings and are cousins/ uncles etc
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Robert Laver "sightings" -
An exact list of the names of the gentlemen and other freeholders that voted for a knight of the shire for the county of Essex - taken 31 Mar 1715
Name and place (ie. abode) of freeholder - Robert Laver, Halsted
Where freehold lieth - Halsted
1763 election
Name and where freehold lies - Robert Laver Jnr, Braintree
Abode - Braintree
1768 election
Laver Robert Snr - abode Braintree, freehhold Braintree
Laver Robert Jnr - abode Braintree, freehold Braintree
1774 election
Laver Robert Junior - abode Braintree, freehold Braintree
Laver Robert Senior - abode Braintree, freehold Braintree
In 1776 a Robert Laver, Prittlewell is a subscriber to the publication "A paraphrase on the Book of Isaiah"
In 1792 a Robert Laver, Prittlewell is appointed a commissioner re. an act to drain and improve the island of Canvey.
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FindMyPast burials
Elizabeth Laver, age 82, buried 30 Jun 1828, Ingatestone
The Ipswich Journal, 28 Jun 1828 has the burial notice of Mrs Laver, of Huskards, Ingatestone, relict of the late Robert Laver, formerly of Prittlewell Temple
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Thank you Hanes.
All information greatly received. I particularly like the Census information which implies the two Roberts were together as junior and senior.
Nannyj - I thought I had posted earlier today but it appears to have disappeared - possibly didn't load up.
Having looked through the permutations I think we have Robert (m1761) as son of Robert and Elizabeth bapt July 1739.
And I have had success finding Henrietta Bedwell! She was bapt 17 Dec 1742 Braintree, dau of Richard and Hannah Bedwell b 18th Sept.
Now need to locate marriage of Richard Laver and Elizabeth UNK and Richard Bedwell and Hannah UNK. Looks like another subscription of SEAX coming up.
Thank you everyone for your assistance - will have to capture all this in a form that can be understood easily
Regards
Warwick
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I'll check out the bedwells for you. Just doing lunch here 😊
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I had seen that baptism. It's of Ann Bedwell, although Hannah is sometimes written as Ann.
Richard Bedwell and Hannah stuck married 24/11/1724 Braintree. First child I could find baptised was Mary 23/10/26, then nine more (Henrietta baptised 10/5/1728 and buried 29/9/1729, Isabel, Richard, John, Arthur, William, Thomas, Charles and then your Henrietta.)
Added: Richard Bedwell baptised 19/11/1704 in Bocking to Richard Bedwell. Mothers not mentioned on these registers. Not seen Ann yet, but I think her surname could be Sturk rather than Stuck. There are Sturks baptised around the time in Braintree, but I couldn't see an Ann.
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NannyJ
That's great information on the Bedwell's - thank you.
On Ancestry there is an apprentice indenture record for Dec 1720 to Wm Weftwood of Braintree, butcher showing Richard Bedwell son of Richard Bedwell (deceased). He would have been 16. So that lines up.
Its breakfast here but heading away for the day. Will have to look this again evening, particularly the Richard Laver m Elizabeth UNK line.
Thank you again - much appreciated.
Cheers
Warwick
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Hi again
Found some more information on Ancestry being the Probate record / will written in 1719 for Richard Bedwell senior being a freeholder who leaves his wife Lydia 100 pounds and then residue of estate to children, Richard, John, Mary? and Fonball?
Need to find marriage to Lydia - appears Richard jnr born 1704 might be the oldest (definitely oldest living in 1719)
Will keep digging.
Warwick
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I had seen that baptism. It's of Ann Bedwell, although Hannah is sometimes written as Ann.
Richard Bedwell and Hannah stuck married 24/11/1724 Braintree. First child I could find baptised was Mary 23/10/26, then nine more (Henrietta baptised 10/5/1728 and buried 29/9/1729, Isabel, Richard, John, Arthur, William, Thomas, Charles and then your Henrietta.)
Added: Richard Bedwell baptised 19/11/1704 in Bocking to Richard Bedwell. Mothers not mentioned on these registers. Not seen Ann yet, but I think her surname could be Sturk rather than Stuck. There are Sturks baptised around the time in Braintree, but I couldn't see an Ann.
Hi. The above identified Hannah Stuck as grandmother of Robert Laver b1762. In this Rootschat link http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=742745.msg5895462#msg5895462 there is reference to a Matthew Stuck in Braintree circa 1700 plus there is reference on Ancestry to a Matthew Stuck, a barber in Bocking in Apprentice records dated 1732 -1758. Accordingly keen to connect this family if possible please.
Cheers
Warwick
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Ha. I noticed th NZ bit.
I'm just looking at bocking as there is a Joshua laver who marries in cressing around the same time for a 1720s Robert or a 1730s marriage..
I did find Esther's death: 18/8/1734 cressing.
I also found a Sarah born to Robert and Elizabeth laver 29/6/1735 ... so it's looking like this elisabeth followed Esther at any rate?
It might make Roberts birth, and theirs, more like 1710. In my experience the traditional naming is father and mothers names for first girl and boy, not grandparents.
NannyJ Hi again
Are you able to please double check where you found Esthers death? The date you quote in Cressing is the burial of her son Robert bapt previous day in Braintree and can't see her death in the Cressing records. If you did find it then it would be great to identify it.
Thank you in anticipation.
Regards
Warwick
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Hi. You're right - it isn't Esther's death. So ... we need a death for Esther still.
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Many thanks.
Esther's death doesn't appear in Cressing.... will keep an eye out elsewhere.
Her son Roberts bapt was in Braintree and burial next day at Cressing.
As a matter of interest do you know which cemetery was referred to as 'Woollen'? Appears to service the whole district.
Cheers
W.
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Many thanks.
Esther's death doesn't appear in Cressing.... will keep an eye out elsewhere.
Her son Roberts bapt was in Braintree and burial next day at Cressing.
As a matter of interest do you know which cemetery was referred to as 'Woollen'? Appears to service the whole district.
Cheers
W.
Ha ... 'in woollen' means they were buried in wool. It was to do with the law at the time to increase the wool trade. You had to pay quite a hefty fine to be buried in linen.
I've learned some very interesting facts whilst posting and reading topics on here 😉
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Thank you
I'm glad I asked - learnt something with that question.
Cheers
Warwick
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http://www.historyhouse.co.uk/articles/buried_in_wool.html
This is why I love researching my ancestry ... I've learned so many things along the way 😊
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Hi
Robert Laver m Hannah Fairhead 10 March 1789 at St Michael Archangel in Braintree. Hannah is from the neighbouring Parish in Bocking.
.....
I have a couple of potential requests for assistance please:
........
Finally I can't locate a birth for Hannah Fairhead in Bocking. Has anyone spotted a birth in a neighbouring parish. Also on Ancestry there are a number of family trees referring to Hannah Fairchild. I'm presuming this is a mistake.
Any assistance please would be greatly received.
Regards
Warwick
Hi again. Seeking further help please.
Further to this earlier post I am interested to understand whether it is Hannah Fairhead or Fairchild. I have not sighted the original but the transcription records Fairhead. Has anyone access please to the original and able to comment whether the transcription is correct.
Also still trying to locate Hannah's birth?
Any assistance much appreciated.
Regards
Warwick