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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ayrshire => Topic started by: Gilby on Thursday 24 August 17 19:38 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I’m trying to find some more information about some of my relatives who originally hailed from Ayrshire in the 17th and 18th centuries. Mainly I am hoping to find some dates for the Fergusson family of Finnart, so I can try to make sense of the timeline.
Here’s a bit more detail on the stuff I’m researching:
1. Willy Gilliland was immortalised in the eponymous poem by his descendant Sir Samuel Ferguson. This poem said he fled Scotland after the Battle of Bothwell Bridge in 1679. In PRONI, I have seen a 1923 copy of a letter written in 1825 which suggests that William may in fact have been John and that “having been a man in consequence in Scotland he was followed by a King’s messenger”. According to the letter he emigrated from Scotland in either 1636 or 1686. A third source (History of Ayr) refers to Gilliland leaving his home in Dundonald during the reign of Charles I (which would fit the 1636 date). By most accounts, Gilliland had one son who settled at Collin (John?) and another who settled at Tildarg (William), both in the parish of Rashee in County Antrim.
2. The PRONI papers say Gilliland’s son John Gilliland of the Collin in County Antrim married Ellen, daughter of Thomas Fergusson of the Finnart, Ayrshire (born c1621). According to the History of Ayr, Thomas Fergusson was forced to leave Scotland and go into hiding in County Antrim after the Battle of Bothwell Bridge. Apparently he found shelter with Gilleland of Collin, “whose grandfather had himself been forced, in the preceding reign, to flee from his property in the neighbourhood of Dundonald.” After the Revolution (1688-89, presumably) one of Fergusson’s daughters married Gilleland’s eldest son, i.e. the great grandson of Gilliland of Dundonald (which puts back their arrival in County Antrim to well before the Battle of Bothwell Bridge).
3. A great granddaughter of Thomas Fergusson of Finnart, Mary Fergusson, married a John Forsythe of Belliston (Ballyeaston) in County Antrim. I believe this is the John Forsythe of nearby Ballynure who wrote his will in 1798 and probably died in about 1802 (his will names his wife Mary Ferguson, and a Ferguson Kennedy of Finnart as his executor). Their daughter Mary Forsythe married her 1st cousin David Kennedy who inherited the Fergusson estate of Finnart from his uncle Robert Fergusson who died in 1796. The Forsythes of Ballynure were also connected by two or three marriages to the Gillilands. Sarah Gilliland, daughter of William Gilliland of the Collin, married (another) John Forsythe of Ballynure and their daughter Mary Forsythe married James Owens of Holestone (whose family had inherited their estate from the Gillilands) – it was Sarah who wrote the abovementioned letter in 1825 (she lived till 1832).
I’m not overly familiar with Scottish records, so basic advice is welcome.
Thanks,
Gilby
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I thought I’d maybe post more about what little I know of this Fergusson family (my main source is the “History of the County of Ayr” by James Paterson, 1847). Basically, I want to add more dates and if possible find further evidence of the family’s links to County Antrim.
(Finnart was near the mouth of Loch Ryan, where the ferries now go by. It was close to the southern edge of the parish of Ballantrae.)
1. Thomas FERGUSSON was aged 61 in 1682 when he fled to Antrim. He returned to Finnart in about 1689.
2. Ellen FERGUSSON married John Gilliland of Collin, Co. Antrim (he died in about 1730 I think)
2. Hugh FERGUSSON married Janet KENNEDY
3. David FERGUSSON married his cousin Mary KENNEDY
4. Robert FERGUSSON, died unmarried in 1796, leaving Finnart to his nephew David KENNEDY
4. Mary FERGUSSON married John FORSYTHE of Ballyeaston, Co. Antrim (he died in about 1802 I think)
4. Agnes FERGUSSON married her cousin Hugh KENNEDY of Bennane (he died in 1818)
5. David FERGUSSON-KENNEDY (died between 1806 and 1818) married his cousin Mary FORSYTHE
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Finard/Finnard was the port (Finnard Bay), Finnart was where Port Glasgow lays which is in Renfrewshire on the Clyde.
NLS Maps http://maps.nls.uk will help you. Suggest the County Maps.
The OPR's may also help not sure given your broad timeline. Surviving Ballantrae records begin 1730's. Death/Burial records are scarce.
You can access these from Scotland's People who hold the originals https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk It is a pay for you site but you can search the OPR's for free. Just make sure you select the Parish name from the drop-down box.
The NRS has Will of Robert Fergusson, their only reference of being in Finnard. You can contact them with file Number and they can quote you on acquiring a copy. http://catalogue.nrscotland.gov.uk/nrsonlinecatalogue/welcome.aspx select SEARCH enter Finnard.
File: GD60/151
Last Will of Robert Fergusson of Finnard, bequeathing half the sum of £100 secured to his executors by the disposition in GD60/148 to his natural daughter Charlotte Fergusson, spouse of Archibald Harswall, in Korlefing, and the other half, with his household furniture etc., to his sister Janet Fergusson spouse of Robert Glasgow, at Finnard
13 Apr 1793
Don
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I think the Finnart the Fergussons had was the one beside Finnard Bay. In the “State and Sufferings of the Church of Scotland” the property is described as being “in the parish of Ballantree, upon the borders of Galloway”. I didn’t know there was a Finnart up in Port Glasgow too – that would explain all the references to Greenock I came across when I was first looking.
Thanks very much to the link to the NRS site – I did not know about it. I have spent some trying playing with various search words and have got dozens of relevant abstracts going back to the 1650s.
Do you know how much it typically costs to get a copy of the records? I’m assuming it’ll be enough to make me need to choose carefully which records I order.
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Cost is a variable based on the documents location in the archive, its condition, number of pages and even postage. The least amount I have paid was £15 and the most £65 which is why you make an email enquiry and they will advise you the cost.
Don
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I’ve been working on the Forsythe family of Ballynure (County Antrim)…
John Forsythe (“the elder”) of Ballynure married Mary Fergusson, daughter of David Fergusson of Finnart and Mary Kennedy of Bennane. I believe this was John’s second marriage, and ideally I’d like to find the date – but no luck yet on Scotlandspeople or the NRS website.
Failing that, I want to establish the ages of his children by the second marriage, but other than a couple of marriages and subsequent births I’ve not been able to trace them further in Scotland…
John FORSYTHE (c1709-c1800) married Mary FERGUSSON
- Anna FORSYTHE married (c1792) Alexander McKIE of Stranraer
-- John McKIE (1793-)
-- David Forsythe McKIE (1794-)
-- Mary McKIE (1796-)
-- Elizabeth McKIE (1798-)
-- Margaret McKIE (1805-)
- Mary FORSYTHE married (c1798) David FERGUSSON-KENNEDY of Finnart (who d. 1806)
-- Hugh FERGUSSON-KENNEDY (1801-)
-- Agnes KENNEDY (1803-1807)
- Margaret FORSYTHE married (1798) Thomas KERR of Stranraer
- David FORSYTHE
I’m trying to find anything that will give me an approx. birth date for the three daughters.
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Duplicate post.
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I’ve been working on the Forsythe family of Ballynure (County Antrim)…
John Forsythe (“the elder”) of Ballynure married Mary Fergusson, daughter of David Fergusson of Finnart and Mary Kennedy of Bennane. I believe this was John’s second marriage, and ideally I’d like to find the date – but no luck yet on Scotlandspeople or the NRS website.
Failing that, I want to establish the ages of his children by the second marriage, but other than a couple of marriages and subsequent births I’ve not been able to trace them further in Scotland…
John FORSYTHE (c1709-c1800) married Mary FERGUSSON
- Anna FORSYTHE married (c1792) Alexander McKIE of Stranraer
-- John McKIE (1793-)
-- David Forsythe McKIE (1794-)
-- Mary McKIE (1796-)
-- Elizabeth McKIE (1798-)
-- Margaret McKIE (1805-)
- Mary FORSYTHE married (c1798) David FERGUSSON-KENNEDY of Finnart (who d. 1806)
-- Hugh FERGUSSON-KENNEDY (1801-)
-- Agnes KENNEDY (1803-1807)
- Margaret FORSYTHE married (1798) Thomas KERR of Stranraer
- David FORSYTHE
I’m trying to find anything that will give me an approx. birth date for the three daughters.
Possibly the Pedigree of Miss Paterson has dates??
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I think the Finnart the Fergussons had was the one beside Finnard Bay. In the “State and Sufferings of the Church of Scotland” the property is described as being “in the parish of Ballantree, upon the borders of Galloway”. I didn’t know there was a Finnart up in Port Glasgow too – that would explain all the references to Greenock I came across when I was first looking.
Thanks very much to the link to the NRS site – I did not know about it. I have spent some trying playing with various search words and have got dozens of relevant abstracts going back to the 1650s.
Do you know how much it typically costs to get a copy of the records? I’m assuming it’ll be enough to make me need to choose carefully which records I order.
.
.
.
.
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Hi Hallmark,
The Fergusons of Fourmileburn, County Antrim, are not the same family as the Fergussons of Finnart, Ayrshire. The Gillilands were connected to both families though.
Where is your second extract from? I don’t think I’ve seen that one before.
Since I posted in 2017 I’ve found tonnes of information on the National Records of Scotland website which take the Fergusson and Kennedy families back to the 1600s. The two families intermarried a couple of times, and eventually their estates were united in Hugh (or Hew) Fergusson-Kennedy who was the grandson of John Forsythe of Ballynure.
Gilby
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Apologies it was from
Records of the clan and name of Fergusson, Ferguson and Fergus by Clan Ferguson Society (Edinburgh)
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Ah. I see it now, thanks.
Here's another little puzzle I just found in the Registry of Deeds...
1782 - Dromain - Book 350 / Page 33 / Number 233336
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-97LS-T?i=22&cat=185720
Memorial of deed dated 14th Jul 1782 made between Margaret Shaw otherwise Ferguson of Ballintrea [Ballantrae] in the Shire of Ayr in North Britain, widow, of the one part, and John Forsyth [Forsythe] the elder of Ballinure [Ballynure] Co Antrim gent of the other. Whereby Margaret Shaw sold to John Forsyth all that farm of land formerly in the possession of Robert Brown and Thomas Brown of Drumain and afterwards in the occupation of Alexander Shaw late of Killyglen, gent deceased, containing 40a IPM, with additional rights to turf and grazing, lying in the parish of Carncastle, Co Antrim. To hold unto John Forsyth for the lives of William Henry Blair the elder of Killyglen, gent, and Samuel Brown of Drumain, by virtue of a lease dated 13th Nov 1770, renewable at certain costs. Witnessed by Andrew Forsythe of Tipperitony [??] and John Philips of Ballynure, linen weaver.
This lease passed to John's son David who sold it in 1810 to Samuel Richards.
The 1770 lease mentioned was to Alexander Shaw of Killyglen - possibly related to Margaret's husband?
Margaret could be John Forsythe's sister-in-law...?
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One would need to see if there was a Ferguson/Shaw Marriage agreement etc.....
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Didn't find any, but did find this:
GD60/163
Title Bond by Hugh Fergusson, barrackmaster in Ayr, and tutor dative to Hugh Fergusson Kennedy of Finnarts to Mrs Margaret Shaw alias Fergusson residing at Ballantrae "for the use and behalf of my said pupil" for £549 3s 9p borrowed money.
In dorso: Discharge signed by Dr John Fergusson residing at Stranraer, James Forsyth, physician at Belfast, and John Donaldson, W.S., trustees for the said Margaret Shaw, dated 23 March 1810
James Forsythe the physician was son of John Forsythe of Ballynure by his first wife.
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Hi
I have being doing extensive research into various branches of the Kennedy Clan of Ayrshire over the past 3 years and this includes a tree I refer to as the Primrose Kennedy line which includes Kennedy Cadet branches of Benane, Drummellan, Kirkmichael & Finnarts etc.
I would be delighted to share my research with you including a recent find in the Scottish archives dating from 1807 - GD60/162 viz
-Extract Act and Factory, on a petition signed by Thomas Thomson advoate as procurator for Mrs Mary Forsyth or Fergusson Kennedy relict of David Fergusson Kennedy of Finnarts, who died on 25 November 1806, Hugh Kennedy of Bennan his father, and Primrose Kennedy of Drummellan and William Kerr secretary of the General Post Office at Edinburgh as nearest of Kin, appointing Hugh Fergusson barrackmaster in Ayr as factor loca tutoris to Hugh Kennedy aged 5 and Agnes Kennedy aged 4 children of the deceased David Fergusson Kennedy of Finnarts. The petition narrates that the said David was mentally deranged from 1804 till his death, during which time John Fergusson residing in Stranraer was factor loca tutoris but is unwilling to continue in that office; that the estate of Finnarts, with a rental of £320 per annum, is the only property left by the late laird; that by his marriage contract it is destined, failing heirs of his body, to David Forsyth of Drummain in the country of Antrim in Ireland; and that his heirs of line, failing his children, are two female cousins resident in Ireland, daughters of the deceased Fergus Kennedy, late surgeon in Wexford. The said Hugh Fergusson barrackmaster, with the said Primrose Kennedy as cautioner, signed a bond on caution on 8 July
Dates 3 Jul 1807