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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: jess5athome on Saturday 26 August 17 22:35 BST (UK)
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Hi, I have recently received the attached photograph and was wondering if anyone could offer any answers to my questions.
I think the photograph was taken around 1914 - 1918 but could be wrong, my question is, why would the woman be wearing the uniform of a soldier, including the cap, complete with badge of the Kings own Yorkshire light Infantry?.
On the back is written "Your neice Reed Sarah on gurde" (spellings as per the writing) it is addressed to "Unkle joaniss c/o Mr Brunyee Goole Fields Goole" (again spellings as per the writing).
Or, is it a later photograph and she is just posing for the photograph in the uniform of say, a family member or a loved one?
Any thoughts or input would as always be greatly appreciated.
Frank.
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Hi Frank,
Try searching Family Search for Jarvis Reed 1991 census,Yorkshire.He has a neice called Sarah Reed.
Andrew
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I have seen one or two of these types of photos before & it's always curious as to why a woman would be dressed in a uniform.
Hard to say if this is during WW1 or just after. The back of the photo might indicate which.
The uniform is pre 1916 pattern but the card with border is more associated with post war.
It may come down to finding out if she is related to someone who served/died during the war.
Uniforms & kit belonged to the army & were not kept by servicemen or their families so it may be someone on leave at the time or in uniform but not overseas.
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Jarvis Reed of Goole Fields seems to have been 58 ish when the war started so my suggestion would be a pre-war service soldier, perhaps in one of the KOYLI militia battalions (lots of stuff on the shoulder title). No sign of any WW1 records.
MaxD
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There was a Goldthorpe Brunyee, an estate manager in 1911 census. Maybe "uncle Joannis" worked there.
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That would make a lot of sense, Jarvis is a "visitor" at the place where he was at the time.
MaxD
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Hi, firstly my apologies for the delay in my reply, I was going to post earlier but "Family turned up" ::) It looks like I am off on a mission, I have attached the back of the postcard and the name is "Jarvis" not joaniss :-[
Many thanks to you all for your continued input, as always it is greatly appreciated :)
Frank,
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Frank
I'd say no doubt at all that this is Jarvis Reed which Sarah (on guard!!) made a good fist of spelling. Age 55 in 1911.
MaxD
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The uniform and hat are a few sizes too large for the lady, especially the tunic neck and sleeves! So i would guess that she is just posing in someone else's uniform.
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I agree, she's posing in someone else's uniform. She's wearing drop pearl, or similar, earrings and a necklace of some kind - never part of a official uniform, surely!!! A
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She has just put the jacket over her normal clothes and added the hat, I'm sure it was just for fun. Perhaps the electoral roll for the area would give you a possible date.
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Hi, thank you for your continued input, a little bit of research shows:
Jarvis Reed is in 1891 living with Thomas Reed in Thorne Yorkshire, also present are Thomas Reed's sister Annie and her daughter Sarah and son Ernest.
Sarah is shown in the photograph wearing the jacket etc of the KOYLI some time during the Great War>?...........................
need to pop out,,,,,,,,,,,, to be continued
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............... Be back later with details, however I have found a Annie Reed who lost a son in the later months of 1918, he is listed on my local war memorial and he served with the KOYLI.
Frank
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Back again, in 1911 Annie Reed, the mother of Sarah and Ernest is living at Waterside in Thorne with 6 of her children including 20 year old Ernest and 5 more children including one named Walter, Sarah is not shown but 7 children are shown as being born with none having died.
Walter is 16 years of age at this time, now then, my local War memorial has a Walter Reed listed upon it.
241590 King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry 5th Battalion
Enlisted Doncaster - Died 27th March 1918 (killed in action) Age 23
Son of Annie Reed of 12, Water Side, Thorne.
I think this ties in with the photograph, perhaps Sarah put it on for a photograph, as has been suggested while Walter was home on leave.
All in all I think everyone's input into the thread has brought about what seems to be a possible conclusion, many many thanks to each of you for taking the time to help.
Do you think it's a feasible conclusion?
Frank.
ADDED: The 1901 census shows all the family members together who should be there according to age including Sarah, the following census in 1911 shows all family members including those born after 1901 excluding Sarah and the ages of all tie in with those on the 1901.
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Frank
You beat me to it! I hadn't chased down who the owner was but was going to propose that it had nothing to do with Uncle Jarvis.
Uncle Jarvis is clearly too old (54 at the start of the war) to have been the owner but niece Sarah would have thought he would be amused seeing her (on guard) in her rellie's uniform perhaps even before he went off to war.
Another interesting one, good sleuthing!
MaxD
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PS 241590 is his post 1917 re-numbering number, he was 4310 before that. Went to France to join 1/5th Battalion November 1915, 2/5th later, so one would assume the uniform wearing was before that. He died on the third day of the massive German offensive Operation Michael a little after 1/5th and 2/5th were amalgamated having been heavily mauled earlier that year.
MaxD
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How totally bemused would Sarah have been if she could have seen 100 years into the future and discovered so many strangers intrigued by her uniform.
Andrew
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;D ;D I suppose she would do it today by Facebook.
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Hi, MaxD, many thanks for that snippet regarding the numbering and the action in which he died, It puts a bit more flesh on the bones, so to speak, another brave soul who never returned.
Andrew, yes I suppose she would be intrigued by the interest shown in her photograph. it was given to me by my wife's cousin to look into, it will be good to tell him the results due to every ones help on this thread.
Another result due to the wonderful help of Rootschatter's :)
Frank.
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;D ;D I suppose she would do it today by Facebook.
;D ;D ;D ;D I love it!
Frank.
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Hi Frank....Great photo and I suspect the writer was quite young...The white borders on postcards date from 1915 believed to have been introduced for economic reasons during the war.
Carol
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Hi Carol :) , many thanks for that, yes, it's a great photo isn't it.
Frank.
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Hi again, as a footnote to the thread, this is another photograph I received along with the photograph of Sarah in the uniform of Walter, it shows a group of soldiers in the uniform of the Kings own Yorkshire Light Infantry, I am of the opinion that one of them, a private without collar dogs (there were none on the tunic Sarah was wearing) could well be private Walter Reed 241590 King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry 5th Battalion, obviously I will never know but they also seem to have the same type of shoulder title as well.
Frank.
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Thanks for posting this. It is interesting to see other WW1 posed groups to compare with those passed down my own family. Have you noticed the white stones aligned to form letters and an outline drawing under the edge of the hut on the right of the picture ? Not enough visible to make sense of unfortunately.
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We have a similar photo of my gt grandmother and one of her sisters wearing two of their brothers uniforms (West Yorkshire Regiment).
It is a full length photo of them stood in the street, in front of their house and one of the brothers is stood behind them on the doorstep. He is in uniform but not wearing a cap or great coat, so one of the caps and coats worn by the sisters must be his. The brother in the photo was KIA Sept 1915.
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Unprovable of course but I wonder whether the stones are showing a drawing of the Light Infantry bugle and below it part of the words [Le H]avre with a date (perhaps arrival??) in 1915? (Although that doesn't add up with Walter who arrive via Boulogne in November 1915). Their uniforms look rather too pristine for men already at the front.
MaxD
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Certainly a wartime photo as the man in the centre row has a black cloth cover on his 2nd. button. This tells you he has lost a close relative.
I would agree with MaxD that this was taken at home.
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A brief second thought. 1/5th KOYLI arrived in France via Boulogne in April whereas Walter arrived in theatre in November so maybe this is his reinforcement draft and is in Le Havre?
MaxD
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Hi, many thanks to you all for your continued input :)
jim1, that's a good spot, do you know, I never noticed the black cloth on the button, just goes to show what information is hidden in a photograph.
MaxD, that's a very interesting point regarding the photograph maybe being Walters reinforcement draft, it certainly looks like the partial word could very well be Le Havre.
Frank.
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Now then........................................
A little more to add to the thread ;) .
While looking into other Thorne men in the great War I came across this link, I believe Walter is the chap knelt on the ground on the left hand side of my group photograph at reply number 22 if checked against the photograph on the link.
But Sarah may be wearing the uniform of Walter's brother Ernest.
Many thanks for your continued interest and input.
Frank.
See link here:-
Down the page headed "THE REED BROTHERS, ERNEST, WALTER AND GEORGE"
http://www.doncaster1914-18.org.uk/subjects/exhibitions/our-communities-in-war/thorne-brothers-lost-and-found/
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Certainly looks like him.