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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Hmootm on Sunday 27 August 17 15:22 BST (UK)
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Hi, I have been trying to decipher the names of my maternal great great grandparents for ages with no luck, I wonder if anyone could help?
I would also be very interested if anyone could shed a light on why my great grandmother might have changed her name?
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Hi, and welcome.
My first thought on the parents' names is Yurgis Mekeras and Agota Mekeras, maiden surname Pompalas. These names don't look Scottish (or other British), and they could have been spelt differently in another language.
If it is a foreign name, it's possible that Annie (or her employer?) found this a problem so changed it for one that was more recognisable. There's no suggestion here that she'd been married before and that this was a former husband's name.
If you can find Annie's birth or death record there may be further clues. I see too that one of the witnesses was Vincent Mekeras of the same address, so possibly a brother. It would be worth looking into him as well - the certificate doesn't say whether the parents were in Scotland or not, but Vincent certainly appears to have been.
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You are absolutely brilliant! There is a duplicate record on SP with the surname listed as 'Meksras' but I have not been able to find any records to match that name. I will try again with your spelling.
I believe that my relatives may have originated from Russia or maybe Lithuania.
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ScotlandsPeople deaths show a Yurgis Masaitis d. 1928 in Gorbals, and an Agota Micksraitis d. 1931 Hutchesontown.
The surname spellings strike me as having some similarities so may be worth looking at.
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Thank you so much ArthurK!
I found the death record for Agota under her maiden name of Pompalas 😱 I need more help though, I can't read much of it 😕😳
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..birth for Annie Mekszraites 1907 Greenock
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Thank you so much Isabel H, I don't know how you do it, all I can see is scribble 😳 I found Agota listed under her maiden name, the Yurgis record you found must be the correct one, my fathers family did originate from the gorbals. I'm going to look for that now!
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..birth for Annie Mekszraites 1907 Greenock
I can't believe how good you are at this, I've got nowhere in months!
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Agota Micksraitis amrried to Jurgis Micksraitis Coal Miner, d. Feb. 5th, 5h 45m PM at 178 Rose St, Glasgow.
Juozas Pompalas, Farmer, deceased, & Marjone Pompalas ms Petrennte(?)
Hemiplegia 1 day
Vincent Micksraitis, Son, Present.
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..birth for Annie Mekszraites 1907 Greenock
I can't believe how good you are at this, I've got nowhere in months!
I searched initially on first names, and then using a wildcard for birth of Annie M*s.
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I think the death I found for Yurgis is wrong. Using the alternative spelling of Jurgis, I see a death for Jurgis Meksraites in 1956.
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Thank you so much! I found my 3 x great grandparents marriage 😀
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I think the death I found for Yurgis is wrong. Using the alternative spelling of Jurgis, I see a death for Jurgis Meksraites in 1956.
Agota's death in 1931 shows her as married rather than a widow, so the first one you found in 1928 looks unlikely.
To Hmootm: glad we're managing to help you with this. Some of us really enjoy this deciphering lark (maybe we should get out more), and you quite quickly get used to the old styles of writing.
My first thought was that the names might be Greek, but now I'm not so sure. There are a few surnames to play with on that marriage certificate, so maybe see where they are most common.
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I think the death I found for Yurgis is wrong. Using the alternative spelling of Jurgis, I see a death for Jurgis Meksraites in 1956.
Agota's death in 1931 shows her as married rather than a widow, so the first one you found in 1928 looks unlikely.
To Hmootm: glad we're managing to help you with this. Some of us really enjoy this deciphering lark (maybe we should get out more), and you quite quickly get used to the old styles of writing.
My first thought was that the names might be Greek, but now I'm not so sure. There are a few surnames to play with on that marriage certificate, so maybe see where they are most common.
You are right, it was the second name that Isabel H found that was correct. I found a clue to the 'Marshall' name on my 3x great grandfathers, his name is listed as George Marshall formally known as yurgis Meksraites, at least that's what I think it says!
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Have you considered Lithuania as a country of origin?
I couldn't find any source of origin for the surnames, but from a Google book entitled:- "Insight Guides: Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania", the given names seemed to be popular in Lithuania.
There's an old article about late 19th century Lithuanian miners in Scotland on this website:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/legacies/immig_emig/scotland/strathclyde/article_1.shtml
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Have you considered Lithuania as a country of origin?
I couldn't find any source of origin for the surnames, but from a Google book entitled:- "Insight Guides: Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania", the given names seemed to be popular in Lithuania.
There's an old article about late 19th century Lithuanian miners in Scotland on this website:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/legacies/immig_emig/scotland/strathclyde/article_1.shtml
You have all helped me out so much, thank you so much! I did think it was Russia or Lithuania, that article was so interesting!
If anyone could help me decipher the parent names on my 3x great grandparents marriage record and the details on the death certificate of George Marshall I would be very grateful
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If anyone could help me decipher the parent names on my 3x great grandparents marriage record and the details on the death certificate of George Marshall I would be very grateful
Any chance of larger images, please - more the size of the first two you attached? Or maybe just crops of the relevant bits (but also larger). You can attach images up to 500KB in size.
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If anyone could help me decipher the parent names on my 3x great grandparents marriage record and the details on the death certificate of George Marshall I would be very grateful
Any chance of larger images, please - more the size of the first two you attached? Or maybe just crops of the relevant bits (but also larger). You can attach images up to 500KB in size.
I hope they come out better this time, sorry about that!
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If anyone could help me decipher the parent names on my 3x great grandparents marriage record and the details on the death certificate of George Marshall I would be very grateful
Any chance of larger images, please - more the size of the first two you attached? Or maybe just crops of the relevant bits (but also larger). You can attach images up to 500KB in size.
I hope they come out better this time, sorry about that!
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Jurgies Mekszraites, Sugar house labourer
Agatho Pampalute
both signed with a cross, witnessed by Agnes and Charles Burows
Josef Mekszraites, Farmer
Margaret Mekszraites m.s. Separitis (?)
Josef Pampalute, Farmer
Mary Pampalute m.s. Patronute (?)
M.J.Carroll
Jurgies Pampalute
Mary Zelanack
both witnesses signed with a cross, witnessed as before
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I agree with Isabel on the marriage entry. My take on the death:
George Marshall (formerly Jurgis Meksraites)
Coal Miner - Hewer (retired)
Widower of Agato Pompalutes)
1956 - September twenty-seventh
7h 0m A.m.
Victoria Infirmary, (Usual residence:- 40 Wolseley Street,) Glasgow
M - 75 years
Juszas Meksraites, Farmer (Deceased)
Magdalena Meksraites M.S. Pampalaite (Deceased)
Pulmonary Tuberculosis
As cert. by Alexander J Marshall, M.B. Ch.B.
William Marshall - Son
166 Templeland Road, Glasgow
1956 September 28th at Glasgow
Wm MacKay Assistant Registrar
D.J.A. Regr.
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I agree with Isabel on the marriage entry. My take on the death:
George Marshall (formerly Jurgis Meksraites)
Coal Miner - Hewer (retired)
Widower of Agato Pompalutes)
1956 - September twenty-seventh
7h 0m A.m.
Victoria Infirmary, (Usual residence:- 40 Wolseley Street,) Glasgow
M - 75 years
Juszas Meksraites, Farmer (Deceased)
Magdalena Meksraites M.S. Pampalaite (Deceased)
Pulmonary Tuberculosis
As cert. by Alexander J Marshall, M.B. Ch.B.
William Marshall - Son
166 Templeland Road, Glasgow
1956 September 28th at Glasgow
Wm MacKay Assistant Registrar
D.J.A. Regr.
Thank you so much 😀 I did stare cross eyed at the cause of death for a while this morning and did eventually come up with pulmonary tuberculosis so I'm quite proud I got that right!
I found this record (the last entry) and have been trying to work out if they could be related to my tree but I can't think how they would fit in, can anyone see a link? https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/record-results?search_type=People&surname=&forename=Juszas&forename_so=exact&from_year=&to_year=&surname_so=exact&record_type=stat_marriages They seem to have the same first names but the surnames are totally different.
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If they were standard Lithuanian forenames you'd expect to find a few in the index. However, do you know if Jurgis/George's parents ever came to Scotland?
Given that he married in 1904, you should be able to find him in the 1911 census, if not 1901 as well, and this should give his place of birth. The marriage and death records are consistent in giving his birth as around 1881, so he may not be too hard to find. If you can establish where he was born and/or at what age he came to Scotland, you may be better able to judge what happened to his parents.
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I've added Yurgies (his marriage) to the Sugar Refiners database at www.mawer.clara.net/sugarmmey.html .
I've not yet found anything more on him in the industry, and if I've spotted the correct person, he's a coal hewer in the next census.
As no employee lists appear to have survived from the sugar industry in Greenock we can only guess at where he might have worked.
Charles St is close to both Sugarhouse Lane and Princes St where there were refineries in 1904 - www.mawer.clara.net/loc-greenock.html .
You could also hope that he worked a little further away at the Glebe refinery in Ker St ... because the building is still standing - http://thegreenockian.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/greenocks-flat-iron-building.html
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I've added Yurgies (his marriage) to the Sugar Refiners database at www.mawer.clara.net/sugarmmey.html .
I've not yet found anything more on him in the industry, and if I've spotted the correct person, he's a coal hewer in the next census.
As no employee lists appear to have survived from the sugar industry in Greenock we can only guess at where he might have worked.
Charles St is close to both Sugarhouse Lane and Princes St where there were refineries in 1904 - www.mawer.clara.net/loc-greenock.html .
You could also hope that he worked a little further away at the Glebe refinery in Ker St ... because the building is still standing - http://thegreenockian.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/greenocks-flat-iron-building.html
Thank you 😊
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Hi, thank you all so much for the help you have given me so far! I have another question. I've hit a brick wall again trying to find any information about my gtgt grandfather mekszraites (Marshall) I was playing around on the SP website and I found this record
SurnamePAMPALIS
ForenameMAGDALENE
Age at death67
Year1938
Ref644/6 834
RD NameTownhead
Does anyone think this could be the same as the name of my gtgtgt grandmother named on the death certificate?
Magdalena Meksraites M.S. Pampalaite (Deceased)
I would be really grateful for any help 😀
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You can search by forename on SP - if you search "Magdalene" deaths in Townhead in 1938 it shows that the lady at the reference 644/6 834 had three surnames during her life namely Chernouski, Petrollis and Pampalis.
William.
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You can search by forename on SP - if you search "Magdalene" deaths in Townhead in 1938 it shows that the lady at the reference 644/6 834 had three surnames during her life namely Chernouski, Petrollis and Pampalis.
William.
Thank you for that, I will take another look 😀 Maybe it could still fit, my relatives did seem to change there names quite regularly 😕
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The 3 names listed on the death index..."Chernouski, Petrollis and Pampalis" should signify one being her maiden surname & the other 2 being marital surnames?
Annie
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The 3 names listed on the death index..."Chernouski, Petrollis and Pampalis" should signify one being her maiden surname & the other 2 being marital surnames?
Annie
I think I will just have to bite the bullet and buy some more SP credits or I'll never know 😕
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I hope it is ok to add to a post that i started some time ago as I have started looking at the most difficult side of the family again.
I have found what i think must be my 3x gt grandparents on the 1911 census under the anglicised version of there names Marshall. I am fairly sure its the correct family as the 2 children i knew of william and annie (my 2x gt grandmother) are both listed and the ages match up. The wifes name is different though, Maggie rather than Agatha though im not overly surprised as there names are regularly different or spelt differently. the think i would like help with is there appears to be a 3rd child listed but i cannot make out the name, can anyone help? I also noticed that they had had 4 children but only 3 living. i tried to search SP for children that had passed in the gorbals but there were too many, does anyone know of a better way of searching? I dont think the children were registered with the name Marshall, my 2x gt grandmother was registered Mekszraites and my 2 gt uncle was registered as Pampalute as he was illegitimate.
I hope the image is readable, i had to resize it a lot to get it under 500kb
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I found rootschat and this thread through simply googling the name Yourgis Masaitis to discover the likely country of origin of the name. It looks like we may be researching the same family Hmootm.
I would love to hear from you.
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I have found what i think must be my 3x gt grandparents on the 1911 census under the anglicised version of there names Marshall.
I hope the image is readable, i had to resize it a lot to get it under 500kb
Is it possible to snip the important parts & post a larger image please as the image you posted is far too small to read?
Annie
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I found rootschat and this thread through simply googling the name Yourgis Masaitis
It looks like we may be researching the same family Hmootm.
Welcome to RootsChat ;)
Hopefully Hmootm is still researching this family & will receive an email of your post & reply.
Annie
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Thank you Annie. I have no idea how this site works so have my fingers crossed Hmootm is alerted and replies. I am relatively new to genealogy having started during covid lockdown and am delighted to find yet another resource in Rootschat.