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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Caernarvonshire => Topic started by: Blueboy007 on Sunday 03 September 17 09:29 BST (UK)
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Hello all. Robert Evans married my great grandmother Catherine Anwyl on 14th May 1889 in Dolgelly. He is potentially the father of my grandmother, Maggie Jane Anwyl, who was born on 1st November 1888 (no father listed on the certificate). From the 1891 census onwards Maggie used the surname Evans.
The marriage certificate between Robert and Catherine shows that he was a widower, aged 27 and a general labourer. He was living in Barmouth. His father is recorded as being Robert Evans, deceased, who was a lead miner. The 1891 census states that he was born in Caernarvonshire, aged 31 and a labourer.
I have not been able to find Robert in the 1871 or 1881 census records. I have not been able to track down the name of his first wife either.
Can anyone point me in the right direction or provide some tips as to where I might find Robert?
Any ideas would be really appreciated.
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Hi
I see that on the 1891 census, there is a son Griffith, aged 8, b. Barmouth. Would that be his son or Catherine's?
Gadget
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Morning Gadget, that is Catherine's son. I ordered the birth certificate and no father is listed on this one either. Evan Anwyl's birth certificate shows Robert Evans as the father though (this child died on 27th March 1892). The other children were Ellen Anne Evans, born 12th March 1893, Samuel Evans born 18th January 1896 and Evan Anwyl Evans, born 6th April 1900. The birth certificates for these 3 children all show Robert Evans as the father.
Stephen
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I've just found your earlier thread and will read through it carefully. It seems that there are various twists and turns in this family's history. I'll do some searches and see if I can find anything new.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=774769.0
Gadget
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Thank you very much Gadget, as always you are very helpful and generous with your time. I really appreciate it, it has been driving me batty for the last 10 years!
Stephen
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I think this might be his baptism. The 1901 has him born Beddgelert
Beddgelert 2 May 1862
Robert Evans
Parents - Robert, quarryman, and Anne of Tanychiw
Not found a first wife so far.
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Thank you so much Gadget, that is very helpful. I really appreciate it.
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Hello Gadget, do you know where he was in 1901?
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Info form here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=774769.msg6284737#msg6284737
There was only one Evan Anwyl Evans born in 1900 - mmn Anwyl - but he is on the 1901 census in Penrhyndeudraeth, Merionethshire with his full name:
Robert Evans 37 Carrier born Beddgelert, Caernarvonshire
Mary Evans 33 born Anglesey
Evan Anwyl Evans 1 born Harlech, Merionethshire
Elizabeth Jones 60 relative
(on Ancestry Evan's second name transcribed as Annie but clearly Anwyl on original page)
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Hi Gadget, thank you. I have just had a look. Mary Evans, the wife, must be a 3rd wife then. The Jones link ties in as well, I am looking for some Jones relatives too. I will have a look to find Catherine Evans (Anwyl's) death certificate sometime between 1891 and 1901 when I get back home. I will also look to see if I can find this new marriage to a Mary.
That is very very helpful, thank you Gadget.
Stephen
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Sorry Gadget, it must be my old age, I had not clicked on the link. I can see Annette's kind comments and research now. I will order these certificates today.
Kind regards
Stephen
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Hi
I'm a descendant of Robert and Anne Evans of Tanyrhiw, Beddgelert. I'm going out now, will reply further later on.
Emyr
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Hello Emyr, that would be great. I am off out now too but look forward to hearing from you. Stephen
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Hi
The Robert in the TANYRHIW family 'Gadget' refers to appears the nearest fit to the 1901 Census info. Robert (jnr) was a brother to my grandfather Samuel Evans. Robert(snr) had 5 children by his first wife, Anne - Griffith, Richard,Samuel, Jane & Robert. After she died he remarried and there were 4 children from the 2nd marriage. Robert (snr) died 1877. In 1881 Census Robert(jnr) is with his aunt Ellen M Davies (Anne's sister, a widow), Cefn Gwynant St, Beddgelert .
Jane died age 19. One of the children from 2nd marriage died as a child.
It's some time since I researched my grandfather's siblings but didn't get very far; at that time the research was restricted to looking thro' censuses on film and Parish Registers at Caernarfon and Dolgellau Archives offices.
The only info about this Beddgelert side of my family that my mother mentioned, was the circumstances of Robert's (Snr) death, which turned out to be partly correct. Have you or anyone else in the family any stories about the family which have been passed down, which I can compare with info I have which I'm delaying disclosing ?
I've had a DNA test, and my family tree is Public on Ancestry. If you had one it would show if we were related.
Emyr
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Good evening Emyr, thank you very much for this information, it is very interesting.
My interest and connection to this Evans family is through my paternal grandmother, Margaret Jane Evans, more often known as Maggie Jane Evans. I struggled for many years to locate her in any records. Through a lot of help and advice from contributors on this site, I discovered that my paternal grandmother was born on 1st May 1888 in Barmouth and her birth name was Margaret Jane Anwyl. Her mother was a Catherine Anwyl but no father was listed on the birth certificate. Margaret Jane had an older brother, Griffith Anwyl, born on 12th January 1885 in Llangelynnin. Again, no father was listed on the birth certificate.
Shortly after Margaret Jane was born, Catherine Anwyl married Robert Evans (Robert junior). They married on 14th May 1889. Catherine was listed as being a spinster, but Robert was listed as being a widower. I have not been able to track down his first wife yet.
After this date my grandmother's surname is listed as Evans and not Anwyl on Census records. I do not know if Robert formally adopted her or not. My father, who is now deceased, did tell me that his mother, Margaret Jane, was very reluctant to talk about her father. The family rumour was that the father of Griffith and Margaret Jane was already married and that is why no fathers name appears on the birth certificates. I do not know if there is any truth in this though.
Robert and Catherine went on to have the following children:
Evan Anwyl Evans, born 7th January 1891, died 27th March 1892.
Ellen Anne Evans, born 12th March 1893.
Samuel Evans, born 18th January 1896
Evan Anwyl Evans, born 6th April 1900.
I have only recently discovered all of this information, thanks to Gadget and Catherine. You may have seen in the earlier replies to the thread that Catherine died in 1900, shortly after the birth of Evan Anwyl Evans in 1900. Robert went on to quickly marry a 3rd wife, a Mary Jones. I have ordered the death certificate for Catherine and the marriage certificate for Robert Evans/Mary Jones. I should receive these next week.
My grandmother Margaret Jane, I believe, was in boardings at the 1901 Census with a Mary A Davies, a widow, in Barmouth. Mary A Davies was 74 years old.
Her brother, Samuel Evans, again I believe, was a guest at Y-Felin, Llandanwg. He was 6 years old. Staying with a John and Jane Jones, plus their children Thomas Jones and Emmanuel Jones.
I have not been able to find Ellen Anne Evans location in the 1901 Census.
I have not had the opportunity of searching the 1911 census records yet for Griffith, Margaret Jane, Samuel, Ellen Anne or Evan Anwyl Evans.
I have had my DNA test done through Ancestry and my tree is also public. I think that we would only show up as a match though if Robert Evans junior was the biological father of Griffith and Margaret Jane. Margaret Jane went on to marry my grandfather, Llewellyn Turner, in 1924. They settled in Porthmadog, where my father was born.
I am currently updating my tree on Family Tree Maker with all of the new information I have discovered. I will then upload this new tree to Ancestry and delete my old out of date tree. I will then re-attach my DNA test results to this new tree.
I hope that this information helps you Emyr. I appreciate the information that you have given me.
Best wishes
Stephen
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As an update, I received the death certificate for Catherine Evans (nee ANWYL). She died on 1st June 1900 at Llechwedd, Llandanwg. Robert Evans, her husband, registered the death.
I then obtained the marriage certificate for Robert's marriage to his 3rd wife, Mary Jones. They married at Festiniog Registery Office on 8th October 1900, so only 4 month's after Catherine's death. Mary Jones is recorded as a spinster, her father was Edward Jones, deceased, who was a Police Constable. I know from the 1901 census that she was born in Anglesey, so I will try and track her family back through the 1891, 1881 and 1871 census records.
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As an update, I received the death certificate for Catherine Evans (nee ANWYL).
She died on 1st June 1900 at Llechwedd, Llandanwg.
Robert Evans, her husband, registered the death.
Have you seen these two probate entries
EVANS Catherine of Llechwedd Cyntaf Harlech wife of Robert
Death Date: 1 Jun 1900 Merionethshire, Wales
Probate Date: 21 May 1914
Administration St. Asaph 21 May to said Robert Evans carter,
revoked by order dated 22nd October 1914
ANWYL otherwise EVANS Catherine of Llechwedd Cyntaf Harlech Merionethshire, spinster
died 1 Jun 1900 Merionethshire, Wales
Probate Date: 6 Nov 1914
Adminstration St. Asaph 6 Nov to Margaret Evans wife of John
Edit ~ For info. - Is this your Catherine Anwyl on censuses
Edited
I see from your previous post you name Catherine's father as Evan (occ. mariner)
from her m/c to Robert Evans, so you probably already have all this and the census info.
Catherine Anwyl born Llanbedr 1881 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2WS-6TCP
and Catherine with her mother Jane (wife of Mariner) on 1871c
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5P1-GKW
& with her mother Jane (wife of Mariner) & sister Margaret on 1861c
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7KP-Y6F
ANWYL, MARGARET mnn WYNNE
1855 S Quarter in FESTINIOG Volume 11B Page 400
ANWYL, CATHERINE mnn WYNN
1857 M Quarter in FESTINIOG Volume 11B Page 406
1852 marriage entry on North Wales BMD
ANWYL * Evan
WYNNE Jane
St Peter Llanbedr Gwynedd (Caernarfon)
* Alternative Entries in the Marriage Indexes.
ANWYL Evan RICHARDS Jane Llanbedr, St Peter
ANWYL Evan WYNNE Jane Llanbedr, St Peter
RICHARDS Jane ANWYL Evan Llanbedr, St Peter
WYNNE Jane ANWYL Evan Llanbedr, St Peter
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Robert Evans married my great grandmother Catherine Anwyl on 14th May 1889 in Dolgelly.
The marriage certificate shows that he was a widower, aged 27 and a general labourer.
He was living in Barmouth.
His father is recorded as being Robert Evans, deceased, who was a lead miner.
The 1891 census states that he was born in Caernarvonshire, aged 31 and a labourer.
I have not been able to find Robert in the 1871 or 1881 census records.
Might this be Robert Evans age 8 born Beddgelert, Merionethshire with his parents & siblings on 1871 census, his father Robert's occupation is a miner
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V51Z-5WR
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Looks an interesting find,particularly as I think Mary,William and Evan may be in the workhouse in 1881 at RG11/5549/54/1.
Regards
Roger
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Hi
Second wife of Robert (snr) and 4 children from the 2nd marriage were admitted to the workhouse in 1878. One died in the workhouse from scarlet fever.
Emyr
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I then obtained the marriage certificate for Robert's marriage to his 3rd wife, Mary Jones. They married at Festiniog Registery Office on 8th October 1900, so only 4 month's after Catherine's death. Mary Jones is recorded as a spinster, her father was Edward Jones, deceased, who was a Police Constable. I know from the 1901 census that she was born in Anglesey, so I will try and track her family back through the 1891, 1881 and 1871 census records.
I may have found some information for Mary Jones and her family in Anglesey BMD records.
Mary dau. of Edward Jones & Elizabeth Prichard b. 21 Mar 1867, Llanfair PG
Hannah dau. of Edward Jones & Elizabeth Prichard b. 5 Jul 1865, Llanfair PG
Edward Jones, f, b, labourer of Holyhead, son of Thomas Jones, labourer married Elizabeth Prichard, f, s, of Rhos, Llanfairpwllgwyngyll, dau. of Evan Prichard, shoemaker.
Edward Jones, age 32, Cefn Hir, Llanfihangel Ysgeifiog, police officer died 19 Jan 1868. Informant Susan Prichard.
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Looks an interesting find,particularly as I think
Mary,William and Evan may be in the workhouse in 1881 at RG11/5549/54/1.
1881 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2WS-XMY5
That looks promising as both the boys are the right age and their pob is correct as per 1871c
you would need to check further on
1881c shows mother Mary Evans as unmar born Penmorfa age 42
and on the
1871c shows Mar(r)y Evans as M born Clynog age 39
Need to find the 1881c for Robert & Mar(r)y's son Robert Evans born Beddgelert, Caernarvonshire c1863 as per 1871 census
ADDED - possible entry for
Robert Evans age 17 born Beddgelert c1864 occ Lab. Ag.
nephew of Ellen M DAVIES age 70 Beddgelert Lodging House Keeper
1881c https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2WS-XYT9
Here's widowed Ellen DAVIES age 60 Beddgelert Lodging House Keeper on 1871c with niece
Jane Evans age 12 Beddgelert
1871c https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V51Z-KSC
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Ladyhawk, thank you so much for this. Yes this Catherine Anwyl is my great grandmother. Her father Evan Anwyl married a Jane Wynne Richards at St Peter's, Llanbedr.
I had not seen these probate records, they are very useful. I had not found the marriage of her sister Margaret, so I will order that certificate as well. Thank you very much.
That 1871 census is correct as well. I will input all of this new information on to my family tree on Family Tree Maker and try and join all the pieces up.
I really appreciate you taking the time to look for this information.
Best wishes
Stephen
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Thanks Roger and Emyr. I can see that John is also there in 1881.
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Need to find the 1881c for Robert & Mar(r)y's son Robert Evans born Beddgelert, Caernarvonshire c1863 as per 1871 census
ADDED - possible entry for
Robert Evans age 17 born Beddgelert c1864 occ Lab. Ag.
nephew of Ellen M DAVIES age 70 Beddgelert Lodging House Keeper
1881c https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2WS-XYT9
Here's widowed Ellen DAVIES age 60 Beddgelert Lodging House Keeper on 1871c with
niece Jane Evans age 12 Beddgelert
1871c https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V51Z-KSC
I'm not sure about this 1861c entry for Jane EVANS from 1871 census above
she has the right pob and age
Jane Evans age 2 Beddgelert, she has a brother Samuel Evans age 4 born Beddgelert
1861c https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M72S-BCV
looked at the original and on the page before are their parents and 2 more siblings
Robert Evans age 32 Carnarvon Carnarvon, Anne 31,
Griffith 9, Richard 7
All others born Carnarvon Beddgelert, their father Robert’s occupation is a horse keeper
1861c https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M72S-BC8
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Thank you Dragon T, that is very useful information. Prichard is a surname that pops up elsewhere in my tree as well.
Best wishes
Stephen