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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Chris Anderson on Wednesday 06 September 17 19:35 BST (UK)

Title: Mistakes on marriage certificate? Or lies?
Post by: Chris Anderson on Wednesday 06 September 17 19:35 BST (UK)
Groom says he is 30 but I have him born in 1815

Also he is called Robert at the top of the certificate but Ralph at the bottom???

(https://image.ibb.co/mT8NuF/confusion.jpg)
Title: Re: Mistakes on marriage certificate? Or lies?
Post by: groom on Wednesday 06 September 17 19:57 BST (UK)
The "lie" about the age could be to cover up the age difference between him and the bride.

Looks to me as if there has been a mistake with his name, as it looks more like Sayor as well rather than Taylor. Is he Robert or Ralph in later censuses?
Title: Re: Mistakes on marriage certificate? Or lies?
Post by: avm228 on Wednesday 06 September 17 19:58 BST (UK)
Just linking to your related thread:

www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=778453.msg6323890#msg6323890

What is shown at the bottom is Ralph's signature - his own handwriting. 

What is shown above is the minister's entries as to bride and groom's details.  If the minister has the first name wrong, it is likely to be an error rather than a lie on the bridegroom's part - if he was going to lie about his name he would surely have carried the lie through to his signature.
Title: Re: Mistakes on marriage certificate? Or lies?
Post by: Chris Anderson on Wednesday 06 September 17 22:00 BST (UK)
Thanks guys

Why do these misspellings and confusing contradictions only seem to happen to me!!!
Title: Re: Mistakes on marriage certificate? Or lies?
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 06 September 17 22:27 BST (UK)
Why do these misspellings and confusing contradictions only seem to happen to me!!!

I & Im sure 1000s of others would disagree...it happens to us all but that's what makes it so enjoyable as it makes you put your thinking cap on  :D

Annie
Title: Re: Mistakes on marriage certificate? Or lies?
Post by: groom on Wednesday 06 September 17 22:38 BST (UK)
Why do these misspellings and confusing contradictions only seem to happen to me!!!

I & Im sure 1000s of others would disagree...it happens to us all but that's what makes it so enjoyable as it makes you put your thinking cap on  :D

Annie

I agree Annie. I'd take a guess that it has happened to all of us at one time or another. Took me ages to find my grandfather who had been transcribed as Welcome rather than Valentine.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Mistakes on marriage certificate? Or lies?
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 06 September 17 22:46 BST (UK)
Groom,

I have one written as 'Doorhouse' on the actual doc on Fancestry although her surname was Donohoe in a multitude of variations & I will never forget the day I found it because when I saw it my thought was 'surely no-one has that as a name, what's it really meant to be'  ???

Glad my curiosity paid off & I would urge anyone to look at it as I would really love for someone to tell me it's not 'Doorhouse'  ::)  ;D

You won't need any other details as it's the only one on there although I don't know what it's down as on BlindMyPast  :-\

Let me know if you get bored enough to check it out what your thoughts are  :P

Annie

Title: Re: Mistakes on marriage certificate? Or lies?
Post by: crisane on Wednesday 06 September 17 23:02 BST (UK)
Looks like Doorhouse to me although if you want it to be Donohoe I suppose a case could be made. ;D
A male Doorhouse was married in 1986 in Keighley Yorkshire reg dist according to ancestry although there are none on FreeBMD.
FindMyPast has 2 Doorhouse on the 1939 register, both in Yorkshire plus the Keighley marriage and your Jane in 1871
Title: Re: Mistakes on marriage certificate? Or lies?
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 06 September 17 23:23 BST (UK)
Thanks Crisane,

I actually wondered if I was swayed by the transcription i.e. blinded & couldn't see what I knew it should be.

I have always wondered if that was the actual doc at the time or if it had been transcribed later as the name is from Donohoe to Donoghue with goodness knows how many variations in between  ::)

Annie
Title: Re: Mistakes on marriage certificate? Or lies?
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 06 September 17 23:35 BST (UK)
Is this from the same certificate ?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=778468.msg6323944#msg6323944
Comparing the two zeros I wonder if the curved line in zero on his age means it should be read as an 8.
I don't know if they still wrote 8 like that in 1855 but I'm sure someone here will know.
Title: Re: Mistakes on marriage certificate? Or lies?
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 06 September 17 23:48 BST (UK)
Sinnan...

I think you could be right...

Very observant!!

Annie
Title: Re: Mistakes on marriage certificate? Or lies?
Post by: groom on Thursday 07 September 17 00:15 BST (UK)
Yes, could well be as the 0 or 8 in 30 looks similar to the number in 1855.
Title: Re: Mistakes on marriage certificate? Or lies?
Post by: Chris Anderson on Thursday 07 September 17 09:05 BST (UK)
That looks conceivable! Great work Sinann
Title: Re: Mistakes on marriage certificate? Or lies?
Post by: Sinann on Thursday 07 September 17 11:33 BST (UK)
Your welcome Chris.
I hadn't noticed the 8 of 1855.
I almost didn't post as I wasn't sure, glad I did now.
Title: Re: Mistakes on marriage certificate? Or lies?
Post by: BushInn1746 on Monday 11 September 17 15:21 BST (UK)
Groom says he is 30 but I have him born in 1815

Also he is called Robert at the top of the certificate but Ralph at the bottom???

(https://image.ibb.co/mT8NuF/confusion.jpg)

Hi

That age says 38 years in the top row of your Marriage Certificate scan.

I see a lot of this in old documents for an 8, sometimes made worse when scanned.

Regards Mark

Edit: I see others have noticed too.

The writer in the handwritten year date "1855" has formed the 8 in the same way, although very slightly more pronounced as an 8.
Title: Re: Mistakes on marriage certificate? Or lies?
Post by: Glen in Tinsel Kni on Sunday 24 September 17 16:34 BST (UK)
Also bear in mind if the certificate is issued by the GRO then the signatures won't be those of the couple, they will be transcribed versions created by the clerk creating the register at the time. The original documents lie with the local archives not with the GRO.
Title: Re: Mistakes on marriage certificate? Or lies?
Post by: Jebber on Sunday 24 September 17 17:00 BST (UK)
Also bear in mind if the certificate is issued by the GRO then the signatures won't be those of the couple, they will be transcribed versions created by the clerk creating the register at the time. The original documents lie with the local archives not with the GRO.

The image looks to be from the parish register, the signatures are different, and different again  to the writing of the details.   


The age certainly looks like 38 and not 30.
Title: Re: Mistakes on marriage certificate? Or lies?
Post by: LizzieW on Sunday 24 September 17 17:07 BST (UK)
My husband's g.grandmother stated she was 18 when she married in 1867 when, in fact she was only 15.  Her husband stated he was 22 which was correct. I don't know where her father was I can't trace him after 1857 in a Trade Directory, but her mother was still alive, she didn't die until the following year.  As she got married at Manchester Cathedral, maybe she married without her mother knowing.  In any case the marriage lasted for 35 years before she died of cancer of the uterus, her age was correct on her death certificate, so obviously her husband knew her real age.
Title: Re: Mistakes on marriage certificate? Or lies?
Post by: RodChasH on Monday 02 October 17 16:52 BST (UK)
My great grandmother appeared on a family tree prepared by a distant cousin as Louisa Knapman, which was odd because my mother was convinced he name was Satchell. When we came to investigate the marriage cert. definitely said Knapman and one of the witnesses was John Satchell. A Louisa Satchell had been born in Newport (where we knew she came from) 17 years before and appeared in the censuses along with her brother John but never married, died or appeared in later censuses. Likewise no sign of any Louisa Knapman except for this marriage. Assumption was that the marriage, in London, was without parental Knowledge. I've been told on here that despite the incorrect info. so long as banns were read, which they were, and no one objected the marriage was perfectly legal.