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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: wdlocky on Thursday 07 September 17 10:00 BST (UK)
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Hello
I am trying to trace the Irish section of my husband's family tree but only have the information from a birth certificate, death certificate and a marriage certificate in Australia and what other relatives have found out.
The story so far: James (born abt. 1860) and David (born abt. 1862) in Dundrum, Tipperary Ireland, came to Australia on the "Waroonga" on 5th June 1883 - arriving Brisbane, Queensland.
Their parents were William Mackey and Sarah Hednety.
Here's where it gets a bit strange and nobody here knows why - James married Selina Harriet Edwards in 1884 in Brisbane, Queensland, Australia (according to official marriage certificate), but a son of Selina born in 1888 was named David and the father's name on that birth certificate was David Mackey (born abt. 1862).
I have a death certificate for James Mackey but he didn't die until 1943 in Queensland, Australia.
Selina Mackey remarried in 1912 to Francis Czerney but had several children to him prior to marriage between 1891 and 1906.
Anyway, I was hoping someone might be able to point me in the right direction to find the Irish ancestors of James and David.
Not sure if the spelling is correct, also cannot find what county I should be looking in as the info here states Dundrum, Tipperary, Ireland.
I have looked over a few church records in that area, but have had no luck so far.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks :)
Deb Lockyer
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https://www.johngrenham.com/c_parish/c_parish_main.php?civilparishid=2133&county=&civilparish=Ballintemple
http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0273
https://www.johngrenham.com/places/civil_in_rc.php?churchid=0273&county=&church_name=Knockavilla
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https://www.johngrenham.com/c_parish/c_parish_main.php?civilparishid=2133&county=&civilparish=Ballintemple
http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0273
https://www.johngrenham.com/places/civil_in_rc.php?churchid=0273&county=&church_name=Knockavilla
Thank you for that information. I have had a good look through the parish records and found something that may help, but not too sure.
I found a baptism for a James Mackey on 9th January 1859 which could be a correct date - the only clue to his age I have is that on his marriage certificate it states he was 24years old on 7/1/1884.
The parents are William Mackey and (a bit hard to read the mother's name but it looks like Sarah Hasnett or Harnett. Not the Hednety I was expecting so not sure.
Any suggestions on the next step to confirm this is the James and parents I am looking for, and how to find out more about the marriage of the parents - where and when?
I could find no more brothers, sisters, marriages in those names in the parish records, or cemetary records at all, so assuming they moved on or were only passing through that area (if this is the James Mackey I am looking for). That now makes things a bit harder.
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later siblings
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01koe/
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You have a birth, marriage and death certificate. Can you please list all the information on each certificate.
At Toowong Cemetery same plot
MACKEY James buried 20 Dec 1943 87yrs
MACKEY Winifred O'Neil buried 24 Mar 1889
BDM QLD death
1889 / C3918 MACKEY Winifred parents O'NEIL Michael / DADY Mary
1943 / B64480 MACKEY James parents William MACKEY / Sarah
Who is Winifred?
Where you see the name HEDNETY ...are you looking at a handwritten image, or a transcription?
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You have a birth, marriage and death certificate. Can you please list all the information on each certificate.
At Toowong Cemetery same plot
MACKEY James buried 20 Dec 1943 87yrs
MACKEY Winifred O'Neil buried 24 Mar 1889
BDM QLD death
1889 / C3918 MACKEY Winifred parents O'NEIL Michael / DADY Mary
1943 / B64480 MACKEY James parents William MACKEY / Sarah
Who is Winifred?
Where you see the name HEDNETY ...are you looking at a handwritten image, or a transcription?
Hi Wivenhoe,
The James Mackey at Toowong cemetery is the James Mackey we thought was in our family line, as the parents names are correct, but the age just doesn't match up.
I don't know who Winifred is, perhaps a second wife as Selina (his first wife) appears to have remarried and had children to another partner.
I have attached the certificates I have. Another member of our family had previously done this research and this was the best that they could get for the Australian side.
That is why I am trying to start at the other end and trace the ancestors from Ireland for some other clues.
I can't seem to find any David Mackey (brother of James) and am currently thinking that perhaps James went by the name of David?
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A Sarah Mackey age 70 a widow died 1910 from Dundrum
172 here
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1910/05411/4511958.pdf
she is not obvious on 1901 census
however i noted on the 1859 birth posted earlier that Sarah was a protestant and maybe the later children were baptised protestants
in 1901 a Joseph Mackey C O I is living in Dundrum
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Kilpatrick/Dundrum/1706031/
In 1911 he is with Hadnett's
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tipperary/Kilpatrick/Gortard/815540/
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QLD BDM marriage
1885 B9702 James MACKEY m. Winifred O'NEILL
QLD BDM births
1886 C7950 James MACKEY parents James / Winifred O'NEILL
1888 C8821 Michael MACKEY parents James / Winifred O'NEILL
QLD BDM births
1885 C6608 MACKAY Selina parents David / Selina Harriet EDWARDS
1886 C4254 MACKAY Ellen parents MACKAY David / Selina Harriet EDWARDS
1890 B45932 MACKAY Lily parents MACKAY / Selina MACKAY (father Czerney?)
What are the details on the death certificate, James MACKEY, 1943?
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Birth certificate, 5 Mar 1888, David MACKAY, born Churchill, Ipswich.
Brisbane Courier 29 Dec 1887 p6
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/3486650?
........David MACKAY of Churchill....committed to asylum......
Your David MACKEY, who married Selina?
BDM QLD death
1938 B41090 David MACKAY parents - - ** born Ireland aged 76 years
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Thanks for your help. It is all very interesting.
I have contacted the records department and I will have to order any records from them (at a fee of course) for the Wacol Asylum.
The death record for the David Mackay (spelt slightly different) in 1938 in Qld who was 76 years old and from Ireland. That may also be the same David Mackey, just a different spelling, so I may need to chase that one up too.
I now need to work out the James Mackey marriage to Selina bit and the David Mackey being the father of the child David Mackey born in 1988. There are two other children on that birth certificate that are older than him so I may need to try and get copies of their entries.
It appears that the Hednety is Hadnett from those records, and from the birth record I found of James Mackey.
This whole thing is now looking more expensive to move anywhere forward! :)
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Wow,this is getting very confusing for the Australian side of things. Have found some more info for the Irish side but still not getting a David Mackey (or Mackay) brn abt 1862. Some of the info below is from other family members and some is from certificates.
I've put the Australian side on a bit of timeline below - I don't know how to work this one out. Any ideas from anyone would be greatfully appreciated:
James Mackey – Baptised 9/1/1859, died 1943
David Mackey brn abt 1862, institutionalised December 1887, Died 1938 (diff spelling)
Selina Edwards died 29/1/1950
Came out on ship “Waroonga” arrived Brisbane 5/6/1883 (I can only find James n/a on this ship and no David)
James Mackey married Selina Edwards 7/1/1884 Brisbane
David Mackay & Selina Edwards children
Child Selina 7/1/1885
Child Ellen 16/5/1886
Child David 5th March 1888, Churchill Ipswich (name was David Mackey-Czerney on his marriage cert in 1911)
David Mackey institutionalised December 1887
James Mackey married Winifred O’Neil 1885 (died 1889)
Child – James Mackey 1886
Child - Michael Mackey 1888
Selina Edwards married Francis Joseph Czerney 1911
Child Lily 1891
Child Thomas born 1894
Child Violet born 1897
Child Mabel born 1898
Child Francis born 1900
Child Arthur born 1903
Child Joseph born 1906
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BDM QLD marriage
1912 C1615 Selina MACKAY m. Joseph COLLETT
1920 C3605 Ellen MACKAY m. Ralph HOWELLS
BDM QLD death
1975 B63663 Ellen HOWELLS parents David MACKAY / Selina Harriet EDWARDS
1971 B22342 Selina COLLETT parents David MACKAY / Selina Harriet EDWARDS
BDM NSW death
20066 / 1950 MACKEY James parents James / Winifred @ Byron Bay
Northern Star 16 Sep 1950 p7
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/225710808?
..obit for James MACKEY......a brother resides in Brisbane.........
BDM QLD death
1963 B57181 MACKEY Michael parents MACKEY James / O'NEILL Winifred
Marriage certificate, 1884, has Selina EDWARDS marrying James MACKEY. All other records that identify father of children born to Selina EDWARDS, birth and later death records, name him as David.
The marriage certificate is a transcription. The name HADNETY on this record is probably the best attempt at transcribing HADNETT. David should be easy enough to read, so maybe just a distracted transcriber. The original might read differently.
Name of parents on this certificate might help your research -
1885 B9702 James MACKEY m. Winifred O'NEILL
Do you have any reason to believe that your David MACKEY (married Selina EDWARDS) is related to
any other MACKEY in QLD?
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Thanks for that.
I think I need to find a copy of the original marriage entry of 1884 for "James" and Selina to check that out. I think this could be an error and should be David and Selina. (James married in 1885 to Winifred)
I need to also find James and David on the passenger lists. I am not having much luck with that. A relative told me they arrived in Brisbane on the Waroonga in 1883, but I haven't found them yet.
I will keep searching. :)
The Irish side is proving difficult, with only a baptism of James found, 9th January 1859. I can't find anything for David or other children - this might be because the mother, Sarah was Protestant and they may be baptised in those churches, which I can't find. I haven't been able to find any marriage record for William and Sarah yet either.
I will keep searching. :)
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Joseph Mackey from the 1901 age 30 1911 age 40 appears to be another brother registered as unknown Mackey born Nov 1871 same parents
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1871/03273/2199340.pdf
death 1941
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1941/04710/4257907.pdf
so it is likely that you are looking for C O I baptisms
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William Mackey jr ? 1886 to Mary Anne Taylor
note witness Richard Hadnett
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1886/10852/5962558.pdf
Richard Hadnett 1901 and Elizabeth Whinton (likely brother of Sarah)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Kilpatrick/Gortard/1706088/
died 1907 informant son Joshua John
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1907/05512/4544909.pdf
will index
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014917/005014917_00131.pdf
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tipperary/Kilpatrick/Gortard/815540/
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kp7/ children
married in 1863 in Ballintemple giving fathers names
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGZ4-XHP
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Aha the marriage 1854
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGF4-FGF
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The informant on Joseph Mackey's birth 1871 was Ellen Weston
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGZ8-VMK
1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Kilpatrick/Gortarush_Lower/1706064/
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tipperary/Kilpatrick/Gortarush_Lower/815517/
other siblings
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kpc/
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Aha the marriage 1854
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGF4-FGF
Thank you so much. This is fantastic. All of this information is so wonderful. All these years we thought the name of the wife was Sarah Hadnety (obviously a spelling or pronounciation mistake on the Australian birth certificate).
I will go through all of this info today. Its all so interesting.
Deb
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If you look at the way the Rev crosses the tts at the end of J J Hadnett's name you could see why a mistake could be made
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1910/09977/5627574.pdf
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Cheryl White says she has a copy of the shipping list for James and his brother David
https://nolamackey.wordpress.com/2012/08/19/its-a-long-way-from-tipperary-the-mackey-family/
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Hi,
Wow, what a journey in such a short time. I have been in contact with Nola Mackey (Stapleton) and she has a lot of the family history and is from the James side. Currently corresponding with her to share details.
Thanks for your help so far.