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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: BushInn1746 on Friday 08 September 17 08:49 BST (UK)
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Hello
I am after the Witnesses please, to the following Marriage?
Newcastle upon Tyne - All Saints
John Hood and Elis Gibson, 15 December 1779.
The Marriage online is listed on one of those single leaf BTs.
I have their 14 December Marriage Allegation & Bond John Hood, a Mariner of the Chapelry of All Saints without the Walls but within the Liberties of the Town and County of Newcastle upon Tyne, Bachelor, to Elizabeth Gibson, Spinster, but the Witnesses on their actual Marriage may really help please?
A Rootschatter is trying to string a gap together, using Wills, but feels their Marriage Witnesses may really help?
Thank you very much if you can help, Mark
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The Marriage online is listed on one of those single leaf BTs.
Do you mean this? https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-65YS-PHW?i=117&wc=9K5S-L2Q%3A13617901%2C26205601%2C26205602&cc=1309819
I think you could well find that the original is exactly the same! I've spent a lot of time looking at Newcastle marriages of that era on microfilm from the original, and they simply record the name of the parties and no more than that.
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As it was by licence, another place to look is the marriage abstracts, which are on Family Search within the Calendar of Marriage Bonds and Allegations
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kon/
Added: Forgot to say, it would be worth back and forth looking at other marriages at All Saints to try to ascertain if the witnesses were regular ones, in which case they may be the church warden and the cleaner or something who happened to be around rather than personally known by the couple. Often marriage witnesses are the same in lots of marriages - if that makes sense?
Boo
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Thank you
The images I have so far, are printed, titled and saved (looking for them). Despite being signed in, I'm struggling to get the Family Search page to load.
EDIT: Thanks Jen, I have that, it has just loaded.
Regards Mark
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Despite being signed in, I'm struggling to get the Family Search page to load.
You don't need to be signed in to view either of the pages Boo and I gave links to :-\
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Hi Jen & Boo
Thank you, I have both those from your links already downloaded and the actual Allegation and Bond scans downloaded too.
So John Scott, Water Man (Marriage Bondsman), is the only name that can be linked to their Marriage so far and probably no more information, such as witnesses in the Parish Register, for 1779.
Thanks Mark
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So John Scott, Water Man (Marriage Bondsman), is the only name that can be linked to their Marriage so far and probably no more information, such as witnesses in the Parish Register, for 1779.
Did you check the left hand page of the Marriage Abstract? That names John Scott and Elizabeth Lambton as the witnesses.
Boo
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Oh Boo
Thank you. I must be going ... ?
You and Jen, that is wonderful.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-D4L4-FXR?i=227&wc=MLVD-L23%3A165411201%2C165411202%2C165412401&cc=1840743
I only looked at the right page listing the Marriage Bond, but the Marriage Witnesses have been copied into this Marriage Bonds "Marriage Abstracts" index on the left page too!
15 December 1779
John Hood & Elizabeth Gibson both of this P by Lic[ence]
Wit. Elisabeth Lambton & John Scott
All Sts N/c [Newcastle]
Mark
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I only looked at the right page listing the Marriage Bond, but the Marriage Witnesses have been copied into this Marriage Bonds "Marriage Abstracts" index on the left page too!
he he I look at everything I can, and then check in case anything has rolled behind the sofa :-)
But I am decidedly nosey!
Pleased you got what you wanted in the end.
Boo
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I think you could well find that the original is exactly the same! I've spent a lot of time looking at Newcastle marriages of that era on microfilm from the original, and they simply record the name of the parties and no more than that.
I'm delighted to be proved wrong :)
As Boo says, please do check the names of the witnesses against other entries to make sure they aren't what we might describe as habitual witnesses i.e. Churchwarden or a cleaning lady ;D
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Mark I am hoping to visit a local LDS Family History Centre next week.I've had a firkle in their catalogue and this entry seems to be on film 1068939.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/285732?availability=Family%20History%20Library
Though the local centre wont have the film in stock, the LDS have digitised the film but the images aren't viewable outside an FHC unless you are a church member (which I'm not). If no one else has been able to look the entry up before I go, I'll look at the image and see what it says.
Boo
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Mark I am hoping to visit a local LDS Family History Centre next week.I've had a firkle in their catalogue and this entry seems to be on film 1068939.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/285732?availability=Family%20History%20Library
Though the local centre wont have the film in stock, the LDS have digitised the film but the images aren't viewable outside an FHC unless you are a church member (which I'm not). If no one else has been able to look the entry up before I go, I'll look at the image and see what it says.
Boo
Thank you very much Boo
I feel the witness information I have from Marriage Abstracts is enough for this marriage.
Despite the LDS filming these, Licensing and Copyright they have entered into since, only allows their own members or visitors to their FH Centres access to the digitised films.
I'm stuck right between two LDS Centres, which require 3 or 4 bus journeys and a train. From my village one would have opened and be nearly closed, using the early bus.
Mark
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Despite the LDS filming these, Licensing and Copyright they have entered into since, only allows their own members or visitors to their FH Centres access to the digitised films.
Mark
in fairness , its probably the same original agreement as was in place when they microfilmed the registers all those years ago. Those could only be seen at an FHC and updating/changing the format wouldn't alter the agreement.
Shame there isn't one closer to you, they are a super resource and I am very grateful to the LDS for their generosity in sharing all this stuff.
Boo
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Hi Boo, Jen and All
Got some fairly reasonable prints, from these downloads from FS / LDS digitised films, after playing in Picture Manager 'Restore' etc., with the image, to lighten and remove some of the greyness, for printing.
Found my Ancestor's properties in a Selby 1823 Survey and an 1839 Church Rate Book, confirming which properties the Hoods owned, their Tenants and also those premises he rented and from whom. Street names, Inn names. Rootschatter Claire found a link and I've been interrogating a number of different records.
Despite buying 7 property Memorials, getting loads of extra information 1810 to 1870 and Wills etc., pre and post 1858, I just can't quite confirm one link, or rule in, or out another possible nearby link and general information (suggested by Rootschatters thank you).
The Durham Record Office agreement seems to work well to help us.
My ancestor was attacked by highway robbers and left for dead, so my line nearly died out in 1842. His father George was using 8 horse power steam power at the family tannery.
It is amazing what is out there still! But it is finding where these little gems are hidden away!
Mark
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Sorry it has taken me a while, but my plans to visit the FHC to look at the Parish Register entry for this marriage were very much delayed (the living have been claiming my attention recently)
But I finally got to visit today :-)
JenB you were, as I suspected, correct in saying that the Parish Registers at this time did not mention witnesses, though it appears that IF the couple were married by Licence, then the marriage abstracts 'may' have mentioned them - I really haven't had enough dealings with the marriage abstracts to say if this was normal or not, but suspect it all depended on who was writing them up at the tiime:-)
The parish register is a one line, very terse entry
On a page headed:
Married in Dec 1779
is a list which includes
15 (th of Dec) John Hood Mar.r (Mariner) & Elisabeth Gibson
and that's it! no other info given.
I have the image, which I will send to Mark via a PM with a link to download.
Boo
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Hi Boo
Received image with grateful thanks, regards Mark