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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: Gen List Lass on Saturday 09 September 17 21:07 BST (UK)
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These folks all died, left wills and probates but where were they buried!
John Shiells d.30 Dec 1877 at Black Callerton
Andrew Shiells d. 24 May 1884 at "
George Shiells d. 01 Jul 1881 at "
Isabella Shiells (Andrews widow and nee Anderson) d. 09 Oct 1901 at Whitley Dairy, Whitley Bay.
I've checked Newburn, Whorlton, Ponteland for church burials
I've checked Cullercoats for a church burial.
But I've not found any of the above peoples burials. I do not have access to civil cemetery records, so this is possibly where they are.
Are you related to these Shiells? Do you know where they are buried?
Gen in NBL England
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interesting article in 1902 mentions Isabella
Dispute between Whitley farmers,John Shiell and Charles Dunn of Red House Farm Monkseaton
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Perhaps they may have been buried at either Earsdon St Albans Church, or in Earsdon cemetery or at Preston cemetery, North Shields?
I may be able to call in at North Shields library at some point over the next two weeks and can check if they have the Earsdon burials which would cover the dates you mention - if no one checks this before me. I know the local studies do hold the Preston cemetery records there.
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might be an idea to check the newspaper collection at North Shields library as well
being farmers they may have placed funeral announcements in the press,also have you checked Monkseaton and Cramlington church registers
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I have just checked in 'Margaret Hall Genealogy'website and Isabella's death notice is in the Evening Chronicle edition dated 11 October 1901. (Google this and you will see the listings for yourself - you will find the Evening Chronicle notices listed under Margaret's 'free genealogy records' section)
If no one beats me to it I will check this at the Newcastle library at some point this week. This will most likely provide information on her burial place.
Perhaps the others you mention may be found at whatever place Isabella was buried at.?
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Thank you to all who replied. I can see where I still must check for the Monkseaton burial. I can check any NBL churchyard burials as I have access to all of them. But I have no access to the civil cemeteries such as Preston.
So if anyone can look in Preston for Isabella Shiells I would be grateful.
Neither FindMyPast or the British Newspaper Archive throw up the death notice for Isabella in the Newcastle Chronicle, they don't seem to cover the period of her death. Yet, Margaret's list of deaths in the EC show it, so it must be there just not online! So a check of the libraries newspapers will be necessary. A trip into Newcastle seems likely! Darn, I was there on Wednesday with an hour to kill!
Gen in NBL England
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Radcliff, thanks for the tip-off about the Shiells/Dunn courtcase. FindMyPast didn't show it but the British Newspaper Archive DID!. I've found before their search facility is much better than FindMyPast's!
Gen in NBL England
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I am passing through Newcastle town on my way home now. I have just remembered that the library at Newcastle is open on a Sunday!! :)
I am going to call in and look the notice up today so you should have your answer hopefully within about the next hour. Watch this space!
By the way, I think the Newcastle Chronicle and the Evening Chronicle may be two separate newspapers. So this may be why you may not be finding Isabella's notice whilst it is showing on Margaret Hall's great website.
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Tyne Lass!
Waiting with bated breath!
The Newcastle Chronicles ARE confusing, there were:
Newcastle Chronicle
Newcastle Daily Chronicle and
Newcastle Evening Chronicle all covering different dates with some overlap!
Yet not forgetting:
Newcastle Courant
Newcastle Guardian and Tyne Mercury and
Newcastle Journal once again, all covering different dates with some overlap!
The online databases don't cover ALL the editions of ALL these newspapers, and things fall between the cracks.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence:-)
Gen in NBL England
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Sorry about the delay - several of the machines at the library are out of order today and the first machine I went on suddenly conked so I had to move to another one. ::)
However, the good news is I have found it! :D
Evening Chronicle - Friday, October 11, 1901
'SHIELLS.-Whitley, Dairy Farm, died on the 9th inst., Isabella Shiells, widow of the late Andrew Shiells, late of Black Callerton. Interment at St Nicholas's Cemetery on Saturday, Oct.12th, 1901, at 3.0 o'clock; cortege to leave Whitley at 12.30. Friends kindly accept this, the only intimation.'
Best Wishes :)
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I have just googled this cemetery name and came across a site which says this is also sometimes known as Fenham Cemetery.
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Just to let you know, I have had a quick check of the burials at St Nicholas, Cemetery in Fenham, Newcastle and can't find Isabella's name on the date the newspaper reports she was buried. Perhaps, I am not finding the correct reel or could there may be another St Nicholas Cemetery? This is a puzzle :o
I had hoped to be able to let you know the plot (while I am at the library) but I have not been able to find it unfortunately.
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River Tyne Lass
Many thanks for all your patient research today!
It could be St Nicholas Gosforth, they were burying until 1983. Judging that the cortege was leaving the farm at 1:30pm and the burial was at 3pm, it seems likely. Maybe that's where her husband is!!!!
The only other two are St Nicks Cathedral but there were no burials there after 1858, then they moved up to the one in Fenham which opened then. But you have checked that one already...so it's looking more likely it will be at Gosforth....I can check that one:-) There is another St Nicks at Hetton le Hole but that is REALLY unlikely..... Edit: And I've just remembered the church at Cramlington is St Nicks too.....I thought I'd checked that one already but will recheck.
I wonder how many people turned up at the wrong burial that day:-)
Thanks again and if you ever need a lookup at the NBL archives at Woodhorn, just send me an E.
Gen in NBL England
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You are welcome! I was glad to be able to help - at least with the notice.
I still wouldn't rule out the Newcastle cemetery just because I couldn't find it. Perhaps, there might be another reel at the archives. The ones at the library can be a bit jumbled and I can't rule out that I may have missed the correct section on a reel. I do hope that you get to the bottom of this mystery. I suppose at least you know that she is likely to be discovered at St Nicholas Cemetery or perhaps a Church and that this took place
Two and a half hours after leaving the residence. (12.30-3.00)
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Just out of interest did you know that Isabella is listed in the 1901 Ward's Directory which is held at North Shields local studies? The entry which is under Villages Near North Shields Whitley reads:
Shiells Isabell Mrs dairyman Park Avenue.
By the way, Gen List Lass, after thinking about it, I think you may be on the right track by trying to find Isabella at the Gosforth Parish Churchyard of St Nicholas. When I was on the way out of the library eventually (after getting carried away and looking up several more entries in the EC for people who seem to have previously not had a response) I came across an excellent little four fold leaflet in their leaflet stand relating to the Great War called Gosforth and the Great War History Trail This is packed with loads of interesting information and inside is a picture of the Church of St Nicholas and the parish church yard. I have passed this place over the years but did not realize that this church was called St Nicholas. By the way if anyone wants any more information about Gosforth people in the Great War the leaflet I mention says to contact Gosforth Community History Group via Trinity Centre (which I presume will be at Trinity Church?)
I can imagine the route that Isabella's cortege would have taken via Whitley Bay. Most likely passing where the now Benton ASDA is and straight on. Perhaps burial services were quite lengthy in those days and that may be why the whole event was expected to take two and a half hours? Yes, I do wonder how many people may have turned up at the wrong church that day? If only the notice had mentioned a placename after 'St Nicholas's Cemetery' alas! ::)
I have tried to check the Whitley Seaside Chronicle and Vistors' Gazette which is at the North Shields local studies to see if there was also any entry about Isabella's death in there. Unfortunately, although the local studies has decades of this newspaper 1901 appears to be missing.
Good luck with this search I do hope you find Isabella and hopefully her husband there too. Let us know if you have success.
Best Wishes :)
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R T Lass
Thanks for your continued interest. Yes I found her as a farmer in a few directories and the address said Dairy Farm. i expect it was easier for a farmers widow to keep a dairy farm rather than an arable or stock farm. She would have been used to the dairy duties at Black Callerton.
I would have thought it a nice little business in those days as the Whitley Bay area was expanding. When she died and the lease was up, the children didn't carry it on. Maybe it wasn't as lucrative as they thought it would be.
Gen in NBL England
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River Tyne Lass
I've just checked St Nicholas at Cramlington AND Gosforth and Isabella SHEILLS in not buried at either of them.
So....looks like it IS at St Nicholas civil cemetery at Fenham. Back to square one:-)
Gen in NBL England
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Hi Gen List Lass,
I am so sorry you have not been able to find her yet. I was so hoping she would be at the Gosforth Church yard. I will try to get to the archives for you in the next two weeks and see if I can find her at the cemetery at Fenham. As I say, perhaps she may be on another reel in a different part of the cemetery. She definitely wasn't on the reel with that date that I looked at at the library.
I am really sorry that you are having such a run around with this. Oh dear!! :-[ If only a place name had been added to the words 'Nicholas's Cemetery'!!😕
I wish I could get to the archives for you sooner but can't just yet because of work and other commitments. I definitely will try to help get you closure with this as soon as I am able. Or perhaps another RootsChatter may be able to help out this week by looking this up at the archives? Isabella will surely be somewhere local.
Hopefully, the answer will be discovered at some point in next few weeks.
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Hi Gen List Lass,
I have felt so sorry that you have not been able to find your ancestor's burial that I squeezed in Tyne and Wear Archives today. However, sorry I still can't find her at St Nicholas' Cemetery in Fenham. I have also tried Hetton-le-Hole and St Nicholas at Boldon as a long shot without success.
Now I am stumped! ::)
I wonder if any other RootsChatters have any suggestions?
Sorry I have not been able to help find her today.
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Hi River Tyne Lass
This is really bizarre! To put a death notice in a newspaper and then not to bury the lady at that cemetery is weird! Irrespective of whether they noted which St Nicks cemetery they were talking about....
In the 20 plus years I've been doing genealogy, I've not come across this one before:-) I'll ask around a few people to see whether I'm overlooking the obvious..... Just in case Rootschatters are looking the other way at the moment:-)
Thank you again for your extra tenacity in helping with the Newcastle end of the research, you are a star!
Gen in NBL England
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Given that this was in a Newcastle newspaper and the only location given in the death announcement was 'St. Nicholas Cemetery', my money would still be on St. Nicholas, Fenham.
RT Lass was very kind to check the records there for you - I wonder if she could confirm that both consecrated and unconsecrated burials were checked?
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Hi jon541,
I just checked the burial registers. From the Tyne and Wear registers guide it appears to me that both consecrated and unconsecrated are on microfilm number 1388. If anyone out there can let me know if I should have been checking some other reel please let me know.
I agree Jon, that it Is reasonable given the wording of the death notice that she would be found there. Unfortunately, I was unable to find Isabella here. I would have liked to have helped Gen List Lass get closure on this but so far the answer appears to be eluding us all.
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Thanks RTL - I'm sure you're an old hand at this so would have checked both. It just seemed likely that "St. Nicholas Cemetery" without any other indicator would have meant only one thing to a Newcastle readership.
How frustrating... as GLL has already checked the other potential St. Nick's at Cramlington and Gosforth, it's difficult to think of anywhere else to look. Clearly, with a horsedrawn cortege leaving Whitley Bay it can't have been too far!
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I agree Jon541, that it likely can't have been too far away. I think she may have been buried with her
husband. As he died at Black Callerton he may have been buried in a Newcastle Cemetery. I have checked two cemeteries St Nicholas and St Andrew and Jesmond. Gen List Lass Knows someone who has checked the Old Jesmond Cemetery. I wonder if it might be worth checking St John's Cemetery next. I am unable to do this check just now due to work commitments. I hope If anyone is at the archives they might be able to check this for Gen List Lass?
I am sure many of us would like to see her get closure on this puzzling scenario. This thread certainly seems to be getting a lot of attention in the Common Room too!
If only Gen was famous so she could go on 'Who Do You Think You Are' and have this seemingly effortlessly found out by a team of behind the scene experts. ;) :)
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Wonder if I checked Dinnington!!!!!!!! I think I did but I'll have another look. Maybe St Nicholas is the ultimate "red herring"
Her husband might be at Dinnington.......? Quite near to Black Callerton farm where he died.
I'm still on the case, more after I've been to Woodhorn again - tomorrow.
Gen
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Found at last!
Both Isabella and Andrew were buried at St Nicholas cemetery Fenham Newcastle. They were among the unconsecrated burials. The minister was the Rev Richard Leitch, a Presbyterian minister from College Rd chapel, Newcastle.
I asked a friend who is a regular at TWAS to recheck for me as the films are so jumbled and unclear. Whoever wrote them up didn't bother to put the year on the top of the page which didn't help!
Thank you to all who have followed this query and gave helpful advice, we got there in the end:-)