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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: eileendavid on Tuesday 12 September 17 15:26 BST (UK)
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Is there anyone who can advise me about the muster rolls. I am looking for James Bolton who at the time of his daughter Helen's baptism in Scotland he was a soldier.
The baptism reads "James Bolton, Soldier in the 4th Regt of Scots Militia and Elisabeth Story his Spouse had a Daughter born 16 April and baptised 18th April by the name of Helen Witnesses James Jarvis miner and John Mcpherson". Baptised at Dalkeith Mid Lothian Scotland.
I am hoping to find his age or anything about him that may point me in the direction of progressing my family history.
I have also posted this on the military board
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=778794.0
Eileen
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Eileen forgot to add the year of birth of Helen ~
1802
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XT5Q-WRH
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According to someonline trees he was named William James Bolton. I'm not sure how accurate this is but will do some more searches. So far nothing concrete on him or Elisabeth Stor(e) y.
Gadget
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Hello Gadget
Thanks for the information and your help. Much appreciated. On his daughter Helen's baptism in 1802 he is James a soldier in the Militia spouse Elisabeth Story. On her marriage to Daniel Potter 1823 his name is William and he's a shoemaker (like Daniel) deceased. I understand that the militia in Scotland was disbanded in 1802.
Not found a death for him as I don't know how old he was. I thought if he was a soldier there might be details of him.
Thanks again
Eileen
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Please Please can someone do a lookup for me at the Dumfries archives.
My needs are for any details on a James Bolton who when his daughter Helen was baptised in Dalkeith 18.04.1802 his profession was given as soldier in the 4th regiment of the NB Militia which I have been advised is the Dunfriesshire regiment. His wife was Elizabeth Storrie although I have not managed to find the marriage.
This is what Scotlands peope sent me. The Ewart Library in Dumfries, under ref EGD/27, holds Records of Dumfriesshire Regiment of Militia: Pay lists, 1798-1811; Pay list abstract, 1803-1804; Muster and pay lists, 1804-1811; Accounts and receipts, c 1805-1810; Letter book, 1799-1811.
I think he may have been stationed at Edinburgh
I am unable to look this up myself as I am not from Scotland. I think he was born circa 1770 but do not know where. Hoping that the Militia records will give me something positive so as I can continue with my history.
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Hoping someone can help me I have found on the LDS Elizabeth Bolton death St Pancras 10.10.1830 aged 44 giving a birth of 1786. Could anyone tell me if there are further details like was she a widow, maiden name anything really that will point me in the right direction
Eileen
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It's in the non-conformist registers - Countess of Huntingdon's Connexion - Spa Fields
http://deceasedonlineblog.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/londons-spa-fields.html
No other info than what you have.
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Thanks for that. Is the burial ground affiliated to any church?
I was clutching at straws as usual on this branch of my history but a Helen Bolton who married Daniel Potter had their daughter christened at St Pancras Old Church in 1828. The rest of their children were christened in the Dalkeith area of Scotland.
I just thought this could have been her and her daughter Helen was visiting. If it is Helen's mother she was only 16 when she had her. On the baptism at Dalkeith James was a soldier in the 4th regiment of the NB Militia. I am awaiting info on that from Dumfries as to his age etc.
Elizabeth's husband was James Bolton and according to his daughters marriage record he was
deceased at the time which was 1823.
Can't think of any other reason for Helen to baptise her child at St Pancras other than she was visiting family when her child was born
Thanks again Gadget Eileen
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Thanks for that. Is the burial ground affiliated to any church?
I don't think so. From the link I gave:
The Spa Fields locality is known for its nonconformist Chapel. This has led to some confusion among family historians who believed the burial ground to be nonconformist. In fact, Spa Fields is not the chapel's burial ground as it was privately owned. The creator of the Chapel, Selina Hastings, Countess of Huntingdon, is buried further east in the nonconformist burial ground of Bunhill Fields. Her record can be found in the Bunhill collection on the Deceased Online database. Both the Spa Fields and Bunhill collections are digitised from original registers held in series RG4 at The National Archives at Kew.
The info I gave was from the RG4 series. If there was a Scottish connection, it could be that the family were Presbyterian (Church of Scotland) or other non-c. I'll see if I can find more.
Gadget
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Did Helen marry marry Daniel Potter in Musselburgh, 23 Jan 1823?
If so, the record that I've accessed shows father as William Bolton, not James :-\
Addded - but another has her born Dalkieth, 1802. Father James and mother Elizabeth Story.
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I'm trying to investigate the Scottish angle ~
When Helen died in 1882 , her father is given as James Bolton, gardener.
Added - will make other replies on your Dumfries posting as I think they will relate to Scotland:
Threads merged and placed on Scotland Board.
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Did James and Elizabeth have another child other than Helen? I've found a possible baptism in Hampshire:
Christchurch, Hampshire 26 May 1811
James Bolton son of James Bolton and Elizabeth.
Gadget
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Thanks Gadget. Yes I knew about the marriage and I asked a Scottish historian and he said he thought that William was wrong considering her baptism and death gives James. He seems to think that the scribe wrote it down wrong. I haven't found James Potter's baptism yet but think his father was William.
The only reason I am waiting for Dumfries archives is because the 4th regiment of the NB Militia was also known as the Dumfriesshire Militia.
The only reason I had for thinking the death was Helen Potter nee Bolton's mother was her having a daughter christened at St Pancras Old Church in 1828 and this was the only one of their children according to census who wasn't born in Dalkeith.
Thanks again
Eileen
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I haven't found any other children but Helen was born in 1802 and baptised at Dumfries I think Elizabeth nee Storrie was only 16.
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Yes - I've been looking into Helen's family and see that Jane was born England on censuses. How certain are you that this Elizabeth Bolton is Helen's mother?
I'm sure I got my Dumfriesshire ancestors' military service (during same period) from the National Archives (Kew). It was a good many years ago and I had to order.
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Hello Gadget
No evidence that it is Helen's mother at all but when Jane was christened in London they were living in Henry Street/Road not sure. I also found a James Bolton who was late of John Street Adelphi a bankrupt Wine merchant in 1809.
The funny thing about this is that it was posted in the London Gazette but also posted in the Edinburgh Gazette?
Presumably he would have been in debtors prison but can't find any other info to prove or disprove.
Dumfries archives are checking the muster rolls for me but from all accounts there is no indexing for them and they are in yearly platoon order not regiments. So hopefully in the not so distant future they will get back to me.
I can't find any marriage or baptism for James Bolton and Elizabeth Storrie/Story/Storey or Stary but it said on the baptism that she was his spouse?
??? Totally confused
Eileen
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It's been estimated that only about 30% of pre-1855 Scottish marriages are listed, for various reasons. See:
https://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/socialpolitical/research/economicsocialhistory/historymedicine/scottishwayofbirthanddeath/marriage/
I think it might be best to see what the Ewart produces. I'll keep looking to see if there is anything that might help.
Gadget
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Thanks for that Gadget help much appreciated
Eileen
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Just noticed that there were a couple of witnesses to Helen's baptism in 1802:
Witnesses - James Jardain (?Jardine?) and John Mcpherson
It might be worth checking on them.
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I noticed that James Jardine was a miner but didn't give John Mcpherson's profession will have a look tomorrow see if I can find anything will keep you posted. Thanks again
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I have just checked the parish register again and blown it up to look closely I think the name is Jarvis not Jardine and he is a miner?
I think this is what it reads
James Bolton, Soldier in the 4th Regt of NB Militia and Elisabeth Story his Spouse had a Daughter born 16 April and baptised 18th April by the name of Helen Witnesses James Jarvis miner and John Mcpherson.
Elisabeth Story could be Stary but on Helen's death certificate it is Storrie.
What do you think?
Eileen
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Don't think it says miner - think it's all surname. None of the other witnesses have occupations stated. It would be very unusual.
Snip attached.
I'll put it up for deciphering and link.
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=780630.0
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Thanks for that Gadget.
Received a post from Tree Total of Davidson or Davison. I still think the first letter is a J do you? Fancy script eh no one can read lol
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Two more have given an opinion and have agreed to Jairdain.
I have found a baptism at Dalkeith 25.11.1770 of a James Jerdain born the 21.11.1770 son of Wiliam Jerdain and Jean Gourley. What do you think? Married to Elisabeth Thomson. 5 children Margaret Jairdain 13.091807, Marion Jardain 06.08.1809, Elisabeth Jairdane 29.11.1811, John Thompson Jairdain 25.12.1814, James Jairdain 19.12.1816 all at Dalkeith. There is an 1851 census of a James Jardine born circa 1769 aged 82 in Midlothian.
Also having children around the same time was an Alexander Storie with a wife Elizabeth Jarden/Jardine etc. South Leith Midlothian. Helen Bolton's mother was called Elisabeth Storrie/Storie/Storey/Story?
On John McPherson I have found one that was having children at the same time. Married to Catherine Taylor at Cannongate 03.08.1798. James 23.03.1801, Paul 17.07.1803, John 15.04.1806
That's all I have found so far
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I haven't found any other children but Helen was born in 1802 and baptised at Dalkeith I think Elizabeth nee Storrie was only 16 maybe
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Hello Eileen
There is so little to go on with this couple. I think the info from the Ewart is probably the best bet.
The witness name is likely to be Jairdain.
Gadget
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Did you get my other posting on what I found on Jairdain?
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I think I was following up up that James Jairdain at the same time as you and put it on the deciphering thread ;D He's down as a weaver on one of the children's baptisms, if I recall.
What info do you have on Alexander Storie. I have a baptism that might be him ~
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XT5C-PHL
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I've checked the Banns for Helen and her father is definitely given as the late William Bolton, shoemaker in Dumfries. It might be that Helen didn't really know him or there was a name change or the baptism info was wrong or he had two names.
Have you looked for a William or just James?
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Hello Gadget
Well I am thinking that a great many fibs have been told here. :)
I have emailed the lady at the Dumfries archives to advise that the name could be James/William or both hopefully something will come to light. Perhaps soldiers also had girls in every town much as supposed sailors had them in every port.
I have found an Elizabeth Storie born 24.06.1782 daughter of Archibald Storie and Agnes Cree at St Cuthberts a possibility this was on Scotlands People. Right age she would have been 20.
Also on the LDS I found a census for 1841 of a William Bolton born circa 1776 living in St Cuthberts, Midlothian don't know any further details this is all the LDS gave
As the marriage ruling was so lapsed could Elizabeth just have taken his name of Bolton to legitimise
her daughter and had her christened at Dalkeith 10 miles away so they weren't known? Continuing the deception to the grave?
Daniel Potter who Helen married was a shoemaker lived at Fisherrow at the time of his marriage. His father James Potter was also a shoemaker but not found anything else for him yet except he married Jane/Jean Holdsworth daughter of Stephen who was a clothier in Dalkeith. Also I have been advised Holdsworth isn't a Scottish name?
Helen possibly didn't know her father at all?
This part of the family is proving very difficult and thank you for your help it's much appreciated.
Perhaps I will never know.
Eileen :-[ ???
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I hink we've been looking and thinking the same things, Eileen. I also think, like you, that Helen didn't know much about her father.
A brief summary from the records for Helen's father:
1802 James Bolton, 4th reg NB Militia (Dumfries) - bpt
1823 - the late William Bolton, shoemaker of Dumfries - marriage
1882 - James Bolton, gardener - death
I looked at the 1841 William Bolton. Transcription details from Freecen ~
20 India Place, St Cuthberts, Midlothian
7/109/2
William Bolton. 65, Independant, b. Scotland
This seems to be a multihousehold property. Some transcriptions list 3-4 households as one!
I hope the Ewart might be able to give some solutions.
Have you followed up the Elizabeth Storrie, daughter of Alexander?
Gadget
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I couldn't find an Elizabeth Storie daughter of Alexander.
The Alexander who married an Elizabeth Jarden would have been about similar age to Elizabeth Storie. I was thinking he may have been a cousin or a brother clutching straws again. It was when I was looking at James Jairdain that it came up. :D
Again there is a Bolton (no first name) on LDS 1851 census Midlothian but no further details.
I might have to stick to the Potter's but they are also a bit illusive.
Thanks again will keep you posted.
Eileen
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Sorry - mis-read - I meant this one
I have found an Elizabeth Storie born 24.06.1782 daughter of Archibald Storie and Agnes Cree at St Cuthberts a possibility this was on Scotlands People. Right age she would have been 20.
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There are three baptisms in Dumfriesshire with father James Bolton 1792-1796 ( I searched with a wider time span). Wife in all cases wasMargaret Hyslop
Durisdeer - 15 July 1793 John
Penpont - 29 May 1794 Margaret
Penpont - 17 July 1796 Jean
No marriage found to date.
Worth investigating.
Gadget
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Hello Gadget
It's funny you should mention the name Hyslop or Hislop as I was looking at a possibility for a baptism of a James Potter (father in law of Helen Bolton) 05.04.1777 at St Cuthberts Edinburgh parents William Potter and May Hislop. (These were recorded as Patter) as was their marriage 22.09.1773 at St Cuthberts. Her father was James Hislop
Couldn't find a William Patter but found a William Potter christened at St Cuthberts 08.07.1750 parents John Potter and Jean Moubray.
The only reason I mentioned this is because of the Hislop connection.
I let you know when I hear from the Dumfries archives
Eileen
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Hello Gadget
Still nothing from Dumfries archives on James Bolton.
Do you remember James Bolton/Elizabeth Storrie had a daughter Helen Bolton who married Daniel Potter. His parents were James Potter and Jean/Jane Houldsworth.
Scotland people say it as been recorded at both Cannongate Edinburgh 30.01.1797 James is recorded as a tanner and she is recorded as being the daughter of Stephen Houldsworth clothier of Dalkeith.
The Dalkeith register says James Potter is a soldier in the Shropshire Militia I had difficulty reading it but will try and attach it
Eileen
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I'll have to refresh my memory of this thread, Eileen, but I know that Potter was quite a common surname in Shropshire. At one stage I had the Shropshire militia records but not sure where they are now - we've moved 3 times since I last looked at them.
If I find anything, I'll get back to you.
Gadget
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Thanks for that Gadget I do hope you can find James Potter so that hopefully I can progress.
Eileen
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Not found him listed on the Shropshire Militia list at the National Archives (Kew) but many of the men mentioned were from various counties around Shropshire and beyond. My militia list must be buried on an old backup disk so it will take me a while to locate it.
What I did note on the Dalkeith marriage/Banns record of 30 Jan 1798 is worth following up. The 'witnesses' at the marriage were James Wood and John Bright. Immediately after the Potter entry was an marriage/Banns record for John Bright, soldier Shropshire Militia to Agnes Smith. James Potter was one of the witnesses. It might be worth following them up.
Gadget
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Hello Gadget
This is the text of the email I got from Dumfries Archives nothing conclusive I'm afraid.
I have now looked through all the index slips to the 10 companies of the Dumfriesshire Militia 1803-1804 and there is no one by the name of Bolton. As he was having a family in 1802 in Inveresk and Musselburgh Parish It may be he was serving in one of the other companies within the North British Militia which as I told you was based in Musselburgh.
Looking at the name Bolton in or Indexes it is definitely not a Dumfrieisshire name. I have checked our indexes of Dumfries shoemakers from 1732-1832 and there is no one by the name of Bolton.
There are only two couples having children in Dumfries by that name and that is in the early 1790’s Father James and Mother Margaret Hyslop and the other Joseph Bolton and Isabell Hamilton. Prior to that there was only one other couple Marjory Bolton and John Newall married in 1680. Neither of these couples is recorded as having a son James.
I have also had a look at our incorporated trade records for the shoemakers but again this name does not appear
There is another complication that some soldiers in the militia were allowed to use a substitute to serve for them during periods when they had other demands on them. Odd but true.
Sorry not to have found much for you about the elusive Boltons.
On the Potter front I have been advised that James Potter who was with the Shropshire Militia were in Midlothian from June 1798 and that James Potter when he joined the Militia would have been living in Shropshire
Any help you can give me would be appreciated
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Hi Eileen
I was sure that there was a lot more about this family and I think most of the details are on the other thread:
Threads merged.
It might be best to keep to that one. I'll see if ev could merge this one in with that one.
Gadget
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Hello Gadget
Thanks for merging them. I was advised that if James Potter was in the Shropshire Militia then he would be living in Shropshire at the time?
I did find in Scotland a James Patter which I was told was probably a misspelling in St Cuthberts Edinburgh William Patter and Mary Hislop 05.04.1777. William Patter married Mary Hislop at St Cuthberts 22.09.1773. Then there is no William Patter born but loads of William Potters. ??? ???
I was just keeping you posted on James or William or James William or William James Bolton and what the Dumfries Archives advised me. I have posted a copy of the transcript.
Eileen
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I'm wondering if there were some porkies told along the line. He doesn't appear to be listed in the Shropshire Militia and there are various occupations for him - soldier/militia/shoemaker/gardener - which suggests that Helen didn't know him.
I'll see if I can find anything else on him but I think we had a good look for him earlier :-\
Gadget
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Hello Gadget
Thanks for that and agree I think Helen's father was some soldiers. lol There was a William Bolton living in St Cuthberts on the 1841 census aged 65. Could this have been the guy who did the dirty deed. They had the child baptised in Dalkeith again out of the parish of St Cuthbert's and although it was James on the baptism it was William on the marriage?
I think Elizabeth Storrie was born in St Cuthbert's 24.06.1782 daughter of Archibald Storrie and Agnes Cree and there was an Elizabeth Storrie on the 1841 census in Dalkeith aged 60 so did she never marry?
It seems that you could pay a substitute to do your duties in the Militia so we can never be sure.
The plot thickens :D
Eileen
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Hi Eileen
Would you be able to get hold of the Kirk Sessions Minutes for Dalkeith, in case they weren't married. It might have a record of the couple being brought before the session to be admonished!
It was quite common for Scots women to be known by their maiden name whether or not they were married so the fact that their was an Elizabeth Storrie doesn't necessary say anything about her marital status.
Nothing coming up in Shropshire so far.
Gadget
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Hello Gadget
It is over 12 months since I have been on the family history trail. I have asked Scotland people as to were I can view online the Kirk sessions minutes for Dalkeith for James or William Bolton and Elizabeth Storrie.
I posted what the Ewart advised no Bolton's in Dumfries.
Today I found a death of an Elizabeth Bolton aged 80 in Dalkeith 25.04.1860 (birth 1780) parents William Storry a shoemaker and Elizabeth nee Guy. She is recorded as a widow and husband recorded as a slater no name? I think her death was recorded by her granddaughter Elizabeth Potter I am attaching a copy of the signature for confirmation. So this would be the correct Elizabeth if it is Potter. Helen her daughter married Daniel Potter and they had a daughter Elizabeth who didn't marry until 1868.
On the James Potter front married Jean/Jane Houldsworth 1798 found a baptism 05.04.1777 (Patter) and brothers William 16.05.1775, Robert 23.03.1781 and John 05.05.1779 all at St Cuthberts parents William (Patter) and May Hislop. On the Dalkeith register he is recorded as a tanner and I found a tanner that referred to Hislop as tanners around that time but not been able to find it again.
On the Shropshire Militia on the Cannongate register not had any luck pinpointing John Bright who was James Potters witness.
I would love your advise any ideas these Potter's and Bolton's are driving me to distraction.
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Hello Eileen
Thanks for drawing my attention to the thread. I'd say the surname in the signature is definitely Potter.
I'll see if I can find anything more later.
Gadget
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Thanks for that Gadget
Eileen
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I have been looking more into this since our communication. I had a look on the LDS for Elizabeth Storrie born 1780/81 and the 1851 census with limited info came up saying she was born in Edinburgh and living in midlothian aged 70 but couldn't find the census on Scotlandspeople.
I then had one last stab at James Bolton and found a baptism in Dirleton 12.02.1764 parents Andrew Bolton and Mary Clark. What drew my attention was he had an elder sister Helen Bolton born 5/7/1763 and baptised at Dirleton 22.7.1762. It was the Helen link that caught my attention
I also thought that Helen that married Daniel Potter could have said William a shoemaker and the scribe wrote Bolton when she could have been referring to William Storrie who was probably the only father she had known Do you think this is feasible?
Eileen
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Hi Eileen
I think it's very possible but the main problem is proof. I'd say pencil it in and keep alert to any other leads. They often just pop up by chance. Last night, while looking for someone else, I found a 4th cousin who I'd 'lost'. He seems to have had an interesting life!
Gadget
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Thanks for that Gadget,
Can't seem to find any marriages and nothing for Elizabeth Guy except fife 1749 and Bishop wear mouth 1764. I know what I wanted to ask is a slater a person who slates roofs or was it something else. James Bolton seems to have been a bit of the Jack the lad, soldier militia, shoemaker, gardener and a slater? Oh the joys of research. :D
Eileen
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Not sure if I have the name right so am attaching a copy of the parents names and also of Elizabeth's widow.
Eileen
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Oh the joys of research
;D
A slater was someone who slates roofs, etc.
Confirming names:
William Storry, shoemaker
Elizabeth Storry, maiden name Guy
Bolton, Elizabeth, Widow of a slater
Gadget
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Thanks again
Eileen
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Well I eventually got the 1851 census for Elizabeth Storrie 70 year old widow of James Bolton and find now that she was living in Dalkeith with two grandchildren John Davidson aged 7 and Elizabeth aged 5? I have looked up the birth dates and although I haven't found John, I found an Elisabeth Story Davidson 06.01.1846 at Dalkeith, and another boy Daniel Potter Davidson 24.12.1848 parents William Davidson and Elizabeth Limeburn (Limeburner) William Davidson married Elizabeth Limeburner at Dalkeith 17.04.1840.
I am now truly baffled as I haven't a clue who these Davidson's are. Helen Bolton married Daniel Potter in 1823 and I have not found any other children for Elizabeth Storrie her mother but found it odd that she only had the one child in 1802. She was married supposedly to James Bolton so did she have a child with someone else Davidson or Limeburn/Limeburner but what is the affiliation to the Potter's that their children were given their names?
Daniel Potter Davidson went on to be a house painter the same as Stephen Holdsworth Potter, son of Daniel and Helen?
As anyone any ideas on how to unravel this conundrum?
Eileen
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I have asked Scotland people as to were I can view online the Kirk sessions minutes for Dalkeith for James or William Bolton and Elizabeth Storrie.
Unfortunately you can't view them online (yet). There are plans to put them online but for the present you have to go to the National Records of Scotland in General Register House in Edinburgh or one of the local archives in Scotland that has a link to the NRS Virtual Volumes.
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In the 1851 census there's a family in Dalkeith consisting of William Davidson, 44, nailor, born Falkirk, with wife Elizabeth, 41 and sons William, 12; Alexander, 10; and Da*, 2, all born Dalkeith. FreeCEN transcribes him as David, but SP and one commercial site have Daniel. You must view the original at SP and decide for yourself whether you think it's David or Daniel.
William Sr, Elizabeth, William Jr and Alexander are in the 1841 census in Dalkeith.
In 1861 Donald Davidson, nailor, aged 12, is a lodger in Edinburgh St Cuthbert's. In the same lodgings is John Donaldson, nailor, widower, aged 55, born Falkirk. The names Donald and Daniel are sometimes used interchangeably, so this could be him, but could John be an error for William?
On the other hand, there's a 24-year-old Daniel Davidson, lodger, painter, born Dalkeith and living in Dalkeith in 1871, and by 1881 Daniel is a house painter (transcribed as house printer on a commercial site!) married to Helen and living in Galashiels with 9-year-old son William and father-in-law James Somerville.
John Davidson, 18, plasterer, born Dalkeith, is a lodger in Dalkeith in 1861, and in the same year William Davidson, 22, nailmaker, is in different lodgings there, and 16-year-old Elizabeth Davidson, born Dalkeith, is a boarder in the household of Robina Fowler, 'keeper of female lodgers' in Dalkeith.
A William Davidson, son of Alexander Davidson and Janet Storie, was baptised in Falkirk in 1806. They also had a daughter Christian baptised in 1803.
I think I too am now totally confused. If William's mother was Janet Storie, and his wife was Elizabeth Limeburn(er), who was Elizabeth Storie, and vice versa ???
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I haven't found any other children but Helen was born in 1802 and baptised at Dumfries I think Elizabeth nee Storrie was only 16.
This is stating the blatantly obvious, but if Elizabeth Storrie who was 70 in the 1851 census is the widow of James Bolton then (a) she isn't the one buried in London in 1830 and (b) assuming that her age is accurate she was born in 1780/1781 and would therefore have been about 21 when Helen Bolton was born.
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I haven't found any other children but Helen was born in 1802 and baptised at Dumfries I think Elizabeth nee Storrie was only 16.
This is stating the blatantly obvious, but if Elizabeth Storrie who was 70 in the 1851 census is the widow of James Bolton then (a) she isn't the one buried in London in 1830 and (b) assuming that her age is accurate she was born in 1780/1781 and would therefore have been about 21 when Helen Bolton was born.
Already ruled this out as I have found Elizabeth's death certificate in Scotland 1860 not found her birth yet 1780/1781 parents were William Storrie Shoemaker and his wife was Elizabeth Guy.
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Hello Forfarian
Thanks for your text at least I am not the only one totally confused ??? ???
On the Kirk sessions this is what Scotlandspeople sent me I have checked the minutes for the year 1801-1803 (CH2/84/13 and CH2/84/63) but could see no mention of Elizabeth Storrie or James/William Bolton being brought before the Kirk Session but still no marriage. However she was buried as Elizabeth Bolton widow of a slater in 1860 which was registered by Elizabeth Potter her granddaughter. She married 8 years later in Manchester as a spinster.
The 1851 census for Elizabeth Storrie (1781) isn't listed on Scotlandspeople but managed to find it with John Davidson born in Dalkeith 1844 and recorded as a grandson. There is also an Elizabeth Davidson Granddaughter born 1846. The William and Elizabeth for 1851 census their John would have been born circa 1839 and was 5 years older than the one on Elizabeth Storrie's census at Dalkeith. (Bought from Scotlands people and they have been informed and are hoping to cross reference under Storrie)
On the other hand, there's a 24-year-old Daniel Davidson, lodger, painter, born Dalkeith and living in Dalkeith in 1871, and by 1881 Daniel is a house painter (transcribed as house printer on a commercial site!) married to Helen and living in Galashiels with 9-year-old son William and father-in-law James Somerville that you have pointed out. As he was named Daniel Potter Davidson presumably he is related to my Daniel Potter born 1799 and Helen Bolton his wife daughter of Elizabeth Storrie but how I don't know.
Daniel Potter Davidson's parents were recorded as William Davidson & Elizabeth Limeburn(er) Daniel Potter and Helen Bolton had a son Stephen Holdsworth Potter (1833) who was also a master painter employing two boys in High Street Dalkeith in 1881.
John Davidson, 18, plasterer, born Dalkeith, is a lodger in Dalkeith in 1861 which would fit with the John who is with Elizabeth Storrie age wise on the 1851 census.
In the same year William Davidson, 22, nailmaker, is in different lodgings there, and 16-year-old Elizabeth Davidson, born Dalkeith, is a boarder in the household of Robina Fowler, 'keeper of female lodgers' in Dalkeith she would have been the right age for the Elizabeth Davidson who was living with Elizabeth Storrie who died in 1860 and is the one I am researching.
I haven't found John, I found an Elisabeth Story Davidson 06.01.1846 at Dalkeith, and another boy Daniel Potter Davidson 24.12.1848 parents William Davidson and Elizabeth Limeburn (Limeburner) William Davidson married Elizabeth Limeburner at Dalkeith 17.04.1840 but haven't a clue as too where they fit in my Potter/Storrie history.
Eileen
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The 1851 census for Elizabeth Storrie (1781) isn't listed on Scotlandspeople
She is, actually, but she is indexed as Morrie. I have sent a correction to Scotland's People.
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Thanks Forfarian
I have also told Scotlands People
Eileen
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The William and Elizabeth for 1851 census their John would have been born circa 1839 and was 5 years older than the one on Elizabeth Storrie's census at Dalkeith.
What is your evidence that John was born about 1839? There is no John of that age listed with his parents in the 1841 census, or any other John Davidson of that age who is not with other probable parents. He was 7 in 1851, and 18 in 1861, which is consistent with a birth in 1842/1844.
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What is your evidence that John was born about 1839? There is no John of that age listed with his parents in the 1841 census, or any other John Davidson of that age who is not with other probable parents. He was 7 in 1851, and 18 in 1861, which is consistent with a birth in 1842/1844.
The evidence is just the ages on the 1851 census for Elizabeth Storrie of John being 7 and Elizabeth being 5 and as I said couldn't find a birth for John only an Elizabeth Story Davidson was born in 1846(spelled in many ways) and a Daniel Potter Davidson 1848 with parents William Davidson and Elizabeth Limeburn (er).
As my ancestor's are Daniel Potter and Helen Bolton (daughter of Elizabeth Storrie) thought it was too much of a coincedence for them not to be part of the same tree.
I value your help if I am on the wrong track but these two children are recorded as grandchildren do you think if I find the Janet Storrie who married Alexander Davidson father of a William Davidson's death certificate and find who her parents were and if it is William Storrie and Elizabeth Guy then she would be my Elizabeth's sister. The other alternative is to find evidence for John Davidson born 1844 perhaps his death certificate. What do you think?
I have clutched so many straws in this branch of my family. I have Elizabeth Storrie who was buried as Elizabeth Bolton widow's parent's death certs.
Eileen
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What is your evidence that John was born about 1839? There is no John of that age listed with his parents in the 1841 census, or any other John Davidson of that age who is not with other probable parents. He was 7 in 1851, and 18 in 1861, which is consistent with a birth in 1842/1844.
The evidence is just the ages on the 1851 census for Elizabeth Storrie of John being 7 and Elizabeth being 5 and as I said couldn't find a birth for John only an Elizabeth Story Davidson was born in 1846(spelled in many ways) and a Daniel Potter Davidson 1848 with parents William Davidson and Elizabeth Limeburn (er).
So there is no evidence to suggest that John Davidson, son of William Davidson and Elizabeth Limeburn(er), was born 5 years before 1842/1844, which is his approximate date of birth according to the census?
It looks as if no record of his birth/baptism have survived. This is not unusual.
As my ancestors are Daniel Potter and Helen Bolton (daughter of Elizabeth Storrie) thought it was too much of a coincidence for them not to be part of the same tree.
I agree.
do you think if I find the Janet Storrie who married Alexander Davidson father of a William Davidson's death certificate and find who her parents were and if it is William Storrie and Elizabeth Guy then she would be my Elizabeth's sister.
It's possible, but I did look for exactly that and did not find a death of that Janet Storrie.
The other alternative is to find evidence for John Davidson born 1844 perhaps his death certificate. What do you think?
I think I would try that, and also look for the deaths of his sister Elizabeth and brother William.
I have clutched so many straws in this branch of my family.
I am not suprised. They are proving a very hard nut to crack.
The simplest answer is that Elizabeth Storrie is also Janet Storrie, which would mean that somewhere along the line some clerk got her name wrong, but that is still in the realms of speculation.
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The simplest answer is that Elizabeth Storrie is also Janet Storrie, which would mean that somewhere along the line some clerk got her name wrong, but that is still in the realms of speculation.
If this is correct and it could be she was supposedly married to James Bolton when she had Helen baptised in 1802. On all census she is recorded as Elizabeth Storrie but on her death certificate she is recorded as Elizabeth Bolton aged 80 and a widow of a slater (no name mentioned) so perhaps it could be her with Alexander Davidson in 1806 and they got the name wrong I suppose but she didn't marry him as she was married to James Bolton?
I look into John, Elizabeth and Daniel Davidson and see if I can gel them together (watch this space)
Thanks again
Eileen
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On all census she is recorded as Elizabeth Storrie but on her death certificate she is recorded as Elizabeth Bolton aged 80 and a widow of a slater (no name mentioned) so perhaps it could be her with Alexander Davidson in 1806 and they got the name wrong I suppose but she didn't marry him as she was married to James Bolton?
It can't be the wife of Alexander Davidson after all because Alexander Davidson and Janet Stor(r)i/e(y) had six recorded children between 1785 and 1812. This overlaps Helen's date of birth in 1802 and therefore eliminates the possibility of Elizabeth Bolton being Janet Stor(r)i/e(y) or Davidson.
I think the death certificate of William Davidson might be interesting. Does his son Daniel Potter Davidson's marriage certificate say that he was deceased?
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The plot thickens.
Actually, I think Daniel, who registered his father's death, must have got mixed up, because his mother was Elizabeth Limeburner, not Elizabeth Storrie.
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So the death certificate of Wiliam Davidson whose wife was Elizabeth Limeburn (er) died in 1866 and his son Daniel registered the death am I right so far. The cert is a lead and am I right in thinking that Elizabeth Storrie (who was Bolton) was William Davidson's mother?
But he made an error and perhaps put his grandmothers name on the certificate twice?
Gosh this is complicated.
Eileen
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So the death certificate of Wiliam Davidson whose wife was Elizabeth Limeburn (er) died in 1866 and his son Daniel registered the death am I right so far. The cert is a lead and am I right in thinking that Elizabeth Storrie (who was Bolton) was William Davidson's mother?
It does look like that.
But he made an error and perhaps put his grandmothers name on the certificate twice?
That also looks likely.
Gosh this is complicated.
Indeed.
It requires that Elizabeth Storrie, born in Dalkeith (according to the 1851 census) married first James Bolton and had Helen Bolton in Dumfries, then was widowed, married William Davidson and had a son William in Falkirk at almost exactly the same time as Alexander Davidson and Janet Storrie also had a son William in Falkirk.
Now if we could find a death certificate for the son of Alexander Davidson and Janet Storrie, that would be really, really useful.
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Hello Forfarian
Thank you for your help it is very kind of you. I will look for the other certificate today. I don't think she married William Davidson as she was buried as Bolton.
Eileen
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Thank you for your help it is very kind of you. I will look for the other certificate today. I don't think she married William Davidson as she was buried as Bolton.
On the face of it, it all fits together if Helen Bolton and William Davidson were half-siblings, but it still leaves several loose ends flapping about.
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I haven't found the death cert yet of the other William Davidson but I have found a 1861 census for William on Scotlandspeople that he is 52 (1809) a nailor born in Edinburgh/Dalkeith in lodgings.
Eileen
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I think that in that census 52 is a misreading of 22, and that he is the son of William Davidson and Elizabeth Limeburner, who was in the 1841 and 1851 censuses with his parents.
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Well I got the 1851 census which just my luck was on two pages and it records a William as 12 so born 1839, Alexander 1841, Daniel/David 1848. If this is the correct one they had William prior to their marriage in 1840 in Dalkeith. Still not sure about this William Snr who was born in Falkirk as I haven't any evidence that Elizabeth Storrie ever moved from the Dalkeith as her parents and her daughter Helen Bolton lived there. William from Falkirk born 1806 parents were Alexander Davidson and Janet Storrie.
On the 1861 census for William Davidson a Alex Hutchison further down on the census seems to be the same squiggle and his wife underneath is 59 so if it was a 22 her husband is 37 years her junior. The scribes 2 seems quite distinctive as does his 3 but his 5's vary. So not sure what to think.
Do we agree that there are two William's born 1806 one in Falkirk with parents Alexander and Janet nee Storrie. A William 1804 according to his death certificate parents William and Elizabeth nee Storrie
That's all I have found
Eileen
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Well I got the 1851 census which just my luck was on two pages and it records a William as 12 so born 1839, Alexander 1841, Daniel/David 1848.
The original census never gives a date of birth. It tells you the age the person said they were on the day of the census. The 1851 census was taken on 30 March 1851. This means that anyone whose birthday fell between 31 March and 31 December would be a year older by the end of the year. Or, to put it another way, someon who was 12 years old would (if the age is accurate) have been born between 31 March 1838 and 30 March 1839. So it is three times more likely that William was born in 1838 that in 1839. Web sites that 'calculate' the year of birth by subtracting the age from the census year therefore get it wrong three times out of four.
Do we agree that there are two Williams born 1806 one in Falkirk with parents Alexander and Janet nee Storrie. A William 1804 according to his death certificate parents William and Elizabeth nee Storrie.
It looks like that, improbable though it sounds.
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Elizabeth Storrie was given on the 1867 Death certificate of John McLeod as his mother. He died in Prestonpans however they probably lived in Inveresk and cockenzie. He is buried in Tranent graveyard.
His age at death was 75 making his birth 1792.
We could not find a marriage certificate, nor did they appear as a couple on any census. We could not find siblings. Unless they were married elsewhere it seems they were not a couple.
A christening at the same time and place showed a John McLeod jnr born to John McLeod snr and Mary Fraser, they were married and went on to have more children.
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colinmcl
This gets better and better if this is also my Elizabeth Storrie she would only be 12 when she had John McLeod according to her age on death certificate 1860 and census of 1841, 1851. She had Helen Bolton in 1802 Dalkeith supposedly married to James Bolton and a son William Davidson born in Falkirk 1804/1806 father William Davidson. When she was buried she was buried as Elizabeth Bolton although she was on census as Elizabeth Storrie.
The only William Davidson found was baptised 1806 in Falkirk son of Alexander Davidson and Janet Storey all other details census and death certificate etc match for William with parents of William Davidson and Elizabeth Storrie. ??? ??? ??? ??? ???