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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: Mansl on Tuesday 12 September 17 21:02 BST (UK)
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I everyone.
I am trying to find out some information on A Philip Bullock. He was adopted some time before 1940. His adoption parents were Thomas Henry Bullock and Louisa Mansell they were married in 1902 probably Sheldon or Yardley. I don't know when he was adopted or when he was born.
What I am trying to find is information on his death. He was a witness at his brothers wedding on 13th Jan.1940 so he was still alive then but some time after then could have been 1940 he was in the army and died in a road accident I think driving for the Army(thats what his neice thinks). Apparently he was buried with full military honours at Wolverton. I haven't had chance to go there yet but there might be a grave or he might be on the memorial there. Maybe there is a newspaper report on the accident but I don't know where it happened.
Alan
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There is nothing obvious on the Commonwealth War Graves Association website.
The only matching entry on FreeBMD is:
December qtr 1944
Birmingham Registration District vol 6d, page 97
Bullock, Philip H M age 69
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Thank you for that. I think that would be too old. I only found this information out today talking to his niece on the phone and she only knows bits. I will go to Wolverton on Thursday and have a look. A few years ago I had found a Death Peter P M Bullock died 1940 aged 21. June qtr 1940 Birmingham 6d 168. She says he was Philip and that Peter could have been from another part of the family.
Alan
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I also checked CWGC for details of Wolverton cemetery - if he was buried with full military honours about 1940, I would expect an entry on CWGC?
There's no Bullock mentioned.
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I did try to find a Peter P M Bullock born 1918 to 1919 but couldn't find one just to see his mother's maiden name. See if he was from another part of the family.
Alan
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From the Evening Despatch 17 May 1940 :
Coroner has appealed for witnesses of the fatal road crash in Brookvale Road, Witton last Wednesday night which resulted in the death of four soldiers....
....victims were Privates Peter Philip Bullock 21, driver Francis Jewkes ,19, Percy Edward Smith 22, and Lance Corporal William Middleton......killed when the Army lorry collided with two Corporation buses. A number of soldiers travelling in the lorry were injured.
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Ohhhh fantastic so that death Peer P H Bullock is the right one.
Alan
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Peter P M Bullock Jun 1940 Birmingham 6d 168
Army Roll of Honour
Peter Bullock
Private
d 15 May 1940
NUMber 5114622
Birthplace London
Residence Warwickshire
Royal Warwickshire Regiment
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CWGC record :
https://www.cwgc.org/find/find-war-dead/results?lastName=bullock&serviceNumber=5114622
Peter Philip Mansel Bullock
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Just been on the phone to his niece she thinks it was a thunder storm when the accident happened.
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She has his medal.
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I just found a further report which says it was indeed lightning , hailing and raining !
The CWGC record I gave describes the position of the grave so you may be able to find it if you go there.
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This is really great news thank you all so much. I am going to visit her and get a photo of that medal as well.
Alan
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How would I be able to get a copy or picture of that newspaper report.
Alan
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How would I be able to get a copy or picture of that newspaper report.
Alan
I would have thought that there would be a report in the Birmingham Evening Mail for the accident. Copies of the newspaper are held on microfilm at The Library of Birmingham. You could try contacting them.
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That is fine thanks. I will go there one day next week.
Alan
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I have now been and got a photo of the gravestone. I had already been round that churchyard a few years ago and not noticed that Stone.
Alan :) :)
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Glad it's all falling into place for you , Alan.
Christine
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Yeah thank you Christine. I will be happy when I can get to the Library and get that newspaper report.
Alan :) :)
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I am trying to find out some information on Philip Bullock.
He was adopted some time before 1940.
His adoption parents were Thomas Henry Bullock and Louisa Mansell they were married in 1902 probably Sheldon or Yardley.
I don't know when he was adopted or when he was born.
Just for info. here's the marriage entry for Thomas & Louisa
Dec 1902 Meriden 6d 891
Bullock Thomas Henry
Mansell Louisa
EDITED - added 1911c and birth entry of dau.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWZX-XML
BULLOCK, FLORENCE AMELIA mmn MANSELL
1909 D Quarter in MERIDEN Volume 06D Page 400
Given that you have Peter P M Bullock's death 1940 age 21 birth year c1919 and CWGC
record gives his name as Peter Philip Mansel Bullock
Did he take both of his adoptive parents surnames?
or
a very long shot I wondering if there's a possibility this might be his birth entry :-\
shame his middle name was not written in full
Peter P Mansell Mother's Maiden Surname: Mansell
Jul-Aug-Sep 1918 Wandsworth Volume 1d Page 792
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I must say that is very interesting. I did have the Marriage reg. of the parents but unable to find the marriage as yet in the Parish records. I have looked at most records but all the Parishes in the Meriden area are not at the records office. They may have got married in the registery office as well. I suppose I could pay for the certificate one day. It does look very likely it is him. It says born in London some where o the CWGC and on his gravestone it Says P. P. M. Bullock. The age would be spot on as well with the death. I think I might send for that birth certificate.
Alan
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I do have the other siblings.
Louisa Jane b. 1906. d. 1906 Meriden
Florence Amelia b. 25/9/1909. d. 1991.
Thomas Wilfred b. 29/11/1911 Meriden. d. 1989.
Alan
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Just had another thought but you need to have a subscription for 1939 Register
but it's free to search this should give you a date of birth for Phillip then you could cross reference on FreeBMD for the year and quarter
Have found this family together in Stratford-on-Avon R.D., Warwickshire
Thomas (Henry) Bullock 1874
Louisa Bullock 1875
Florence Bullock 1909
Thomas M Bullock 1911
Philip Bullock 1918
Looks as if son Thomas initial should be W
BULLOCK, THOMAS WILFRED mmn MANSELL
1912 M Quarter in MERIDEN Volume 06D Page 851
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I have got the 1939 register image. there is the family and one redacted person.
Alan
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The niece I speak about is Thomas Wilfred's daughter.
I knew Florence personally myself she never married. Died in a village not far from where I live.
Thomas and both his parents were living in the same village when they died I knew them all. We used to visit them because Thomas Wilfred was my dad's dad's cousin.
Alan
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I just did a search using following criteria
surname only
BULLOCK
birth year
1918
birthday
I tried the months individually 09/08/07
borough
Stratford-on-Avon R.D
county
Warwickshire
When I put in 07/1918 only one name came up
Phillip Bullock 1918
so you could try each date 01 - 31 and 07 1918
and hopefully you will have his full dob
I do have the other siblings.
Florence Amelia b. 25/9/1909
Thomas Wilfred b. 29/11/1911
I followed the same criteria and inserted the dob above and both Florence & Thomas' names came up
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I need that certificate because I am certain that his him. Would be interesting to see the first name of the mother.
Alan
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I need that certificate because I am certain that his him. Would be interesting to see the first name of the mother.
Alan
these are all the births that came up using
Sept qtr. 1918 for a Peter P
Kelly Peter P mmn Long Birkenhead 8a 707
Lingley Peter P mmn Field Brentford 3a 254
Mansell Peter P mmn Mansell Wandsworth 1d 792
Martin Peter P W mmn Jenkinson Gateshead 10a 1716
Hope it turns out to be the correct person you are looking for - good luck
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I will let you know when I have that cert. in about a week.
Big thank you
Alan
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Couldn't resist trying looks as if Phillip Bullock was born 17/07/1918 :)
Hope the date matches the certificate
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Hi
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I have realised now what you meant. When I looked at the 1939 a year ago there was one redacted.
They used to live at Songar Cottages, Langley Green
Alan
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It does look very likely it is him.
It says born in London some where o the CWGC and on his gravestone it Says P. P. M. Bullock.
The age would be spot on as well with the death.
I think I might send for that birth certificate.
London is mentioned here by Christine
Peter P M Bullock Jun 1940 Birmingham 6d 168
Army Roll of Honour
Peter Bullock
Private
d 15 May 1940
NUMber 5114622
Birthplace London
Residence Warwickshire
Royal Warwickshire Regiment
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I have sent for the cert. Thomas's daughter says she thinks the mother won't be Louisa but probably a cousin. Well I have all the Women Mansell names so I can check.
Thanks Alan
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I have sent for the cert.
Please come back and let us know if it's correct :)
Have a look at this link re: paper - it says
You can view a handful of newspaper clippings for FREE when you register
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kpv/
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Thank you for that I have downloaded both pages.
Alan
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Still awaiting the certificate. I have now got the 1939 image of Philip he as been unredacted. since last year. The 1939 register is unlimited and free at our library and the records office.
It seems is family that adopted him called him Philip but his official name was Peter Philip on his birth and death.
Alan
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Thank you for the update - I hope the dob on the birth certificate matches that of the 1939 register?
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I have the certificate and it states he was born 7/7/1918. Where as the other date was 17/7/1918.
I am sure its the same person.
It says is mother was Edith Mansell munitions worker from Warwick Road, Tyseley.
Now I have two Edith Mansell's both born 1892.
Before I can work out which one it is I have to get another certificate. Alfred Lynes to Edith Mansell March qtr 1915 Shoreditch 1c 79.
because I have to find out Edith's father's name on that certificate is it James or Arthur?(hopefully Arthur) it would make sense then.
I know that Edith isn't the mother of Peter because they had a child Vera K Lynes in 1918 in London.
On the certificate it as Edith's mother's name but I can't make out what her first name is.
Peter Philip's niece said she always thought Peter's mother was an Edith Goode who she met once, well I have found a marriage 1941 Edith Mansell to Walter G Goode.
Alan
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I have the certificate and it states he was born 7/7/1918. Where as the other date was 17/7/1918.
Now I have two Edith Mansell's both born 1892.
Before I can work out which one it is I have to get another certificate. A
Alfred Lynes to Edith Mansell March qtr 1915 Shoreditch 1c 79.
because I have to find out Edith's father's name on that certificate is it James or Arthur?
(hopefully Arthur) it would make sense then.
I know that Edith isn't the mother of Peter because they had a child Vera K Lynes in 1918 in London.
Can't view original m/c Transcription only ??? - probably transcription error with Edith's surname
father is James not Arthur :(
7 Mar 1915 St Augustine Haggerston Hackney
Alfred Louis Lynes 24 father John Joshua Lynes
Edith Hansell father James
Alfred L Lynes Age: 4 born 16 Jun 1890
Admission Date: 26 Mar 1895 School: Gayhurst Road School
Admission Place: Hackney, London, England
Father: John Lynes
From 1919 to 1932 on London Electoral Register living
195 Richmond Road
Alfred Louis Lynes, Edith is with him on later dates
Also these surnames Fuller & Sullivan, Skinner at same address various years
1934/35 address 98 Samuel Lewis Trust Dwellings (Amhurst Road)
Alfred Louis & Edith Lynes
Free search 1939 register - you need to look at the original to see if they have combined two families
Chingford M.B., Essex
Edith Lynes 1892 click preview
Vera K Lynes 1918 plus one other person
Alfred L Lynes 1890 click preview
Doris E Scott 1911 plus one other person
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Hi Lady its now complicated but I will try to explain very carefully. James and Arthur are brothers and there sister is Louisa Bullock the person who adopted Peter.
Edith who married Alfred Lynes parents James and Mary Ann(died 1928)
Edith born 4/8/1892 Yardley Sept qtr 1892 Solihull 6d 572., Bapt. 28/8/1892 St Edburgha Yardley
1901 aged 8 living at Church Street, Yardley with parents.
1911 RG14PN16850 RG78PN1043 RD366 SD1 ED24 SN164.
or
1911 RG14PN18660 RG78PN1115 RD392 SD1 ED22 SN17.
...
Other Edith born 1892 Tyseley, Acocks Green, Sept qtr 1892 Solihull 6d 578. no Bapt.
Parents Arthur and Fanny(died1909). Arthur remarried 1911 Annie Jackman.(so her real mother wasn't alive when Peter was bornbut on the certificate it says mother something Mansell looks like Her with the r joined to the M in Mansell.
1901 aged 9 living at Bushy Lane, Yardley with her parents and sisters.
That's all I have on her one of those 1911 is her.
The certificate says maiden name of mother Edith Mansell munition worker of Tyseley Cottage, Warwick Road, Tyseley, Birmingham. Signature description and residence of informant Her Mansell mother Tyseley Cottage.
It does make sense for it to be this one because I think she went on and married Walter G Goode in 1941, I think he died in 1955 aged 61 and she died in Coventry aged 71 in 1964.
Alan
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Edith who married Alfred Lynes parents James and Mary Ann(died 1928)
Edith born 4/8/1892 Yardley Sept qtr 1892 Solihull 6d 572., Bapt. 28/8/1892 St Edburgha Yardley
1901 aged 8 living at Church Street, Yardley with parents.
This death entry definitely confirms Edith Mansell daughter of James married Alfred Louis Lyne
and she is the one on the 1939 register with Vera K(athleen)
Dec 1980 WALTHAM/F 15 1125
LYNES EDITH born 4 AU 1892
and she is on the London Electoral Register with her daughters dates 1964/65
Epping Waltham Forest living at 24 Courtland Avenue
Edith Lynes
Edith M Lynes (b1915 mmn Mansell)
Vera K Lynes (b1918 mmn Mansell)
At no 26 Courtland Avenue
B Scott
D E Scott
S W Scott
Her husband Alfred L Lynes dies aged 68 Sep 1958 Essex S.W. and their daughters
Vera Kathleen Lynes in 2004 & Edith Mary Lynes in 1999
I think you would need to purchase the 1941 marriage to be absolutely certain it's the other Edith
daughter of Arthur
Have you looked to seeif the other Edith is on the 1939 register and/or checked to see if there's a death with the married surname - if it's after 1969 it should give her dob.
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Hi Lady. Thank you for your time.
I think this is Edith's death. Edith Goode aged 71. Death Reg. Dec qtr 1964 Coventry 9c 755.
I have looked for Edith on the 1939 before but will have another look.
I am going to have a look for Walter George Goode in 1939 because its only 2 years before they get married maybe Edith is with him with his surname.
I had already seen the 1939 Image for the Lynes family a while ago. I had actually put Edith with the right Father. It was just the two 1911 census's I had for both because I can't split them.
Alan
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I had already seen the 1939 Image for the Lynes family a while ago. I had actually put Edith with the right Father.
It was just the two 1911 census's I had for both because I can't split them.
I can’t see an easy answer to decide which Edith is which ???
both families were living in the Yardley in 1901
Edith ( dau of James) 1901 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XS8M-PQ6
Edith ( dau of Arthur)1901 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XS89-923
Edith Mansell with Tolson family 1911c https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW7L-9R3
Edith Mansell with Hall family 1911c https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWZ5-ZNJ
Do you have a dob for Edith Mansell (dau of Arthur), might help with search 1939 register?
You mention a possible marriage in Coventry
There's entry but born a little earlier
Coventry C.B. Warwickshire
Edith Monsell 1891
I am going to have a look for Walter George Goode in 1939 because its only 2 years before they get married
I wonder if this is his death entry
Walter G Goode age 72 (1880) Dec 1952 Warwick
Just removed probate info. in case it's a different person so sent you a PM instead
with further details
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Hi Lady
Just got back from the records office. There are two Walter George's. One born in 20/4/1893 parents Albert and Emma West, who married Bertha Masters in 1917 I have just seen the Parish record of the marriage. Bertha died in 1948. 3 years after Edith married. So I think she married Walter George Goode born 1912 parents Walter George and Laura Annie Watts. I have looked up the Parish records for marriages in 1941 but no luck so I think its a registery office marriage, I have just sent for the certificate. I never looked at 1939 for Walter b.1912 because never realised until I got home that it wasn't the 1893 born one.
Alan
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So you are saying Edith married the FATHER of Walter born in 1912.
Well I will know when I get the certificate.
Its such a small world a few years ago I painted 73, Wathen Road for Walter and Laura's youngest Son Stanley born 1920. I lived with their daughter for a couple of years (she died 3 years ago).
Alan
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:) :) :)
Hi Lady, I have now solved it. I went and looked for the marriage of Edith and Walter at St Paul's but not there so I presume it was the registery office.
Edith remarried in 1955 Frederick E Price. She died in 1962. Probate with same address also mentions her sister married to Tom Bean, So her father was Arthur.
I think that Edith Monsell in 1939 is her but don't have a DOB anywhere else.
Alan
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So you are saying Edith married the FATHER of Walter born in 1912.
Well I will know when I get the certificate.
You certainly will
Edith remarried in 1955 Frederick E Price.
She died in 1962. Probate with same address also mentions her sister married to Tom Bean,
So her father was Arthur.
Another piece of the jigsaw added to your puzzle
I think that Edith Monsell in 1939 is her but don't have a DOB anywhere else.
Worked out Edith Monsell's dob by process of elimination
10 07 1891
I'm assuming this is the correct birth entry for Edith dau of Arthur & Fanny (FreeBMD)
Jul/Aug/Sep 1891 Solihull 6d 573
Edith Mansell
and the marriage entry for her parents
Jun 1887
Arthur MANSELL
Female name on same page
Fanny POSTANS
and confirming the FreeBMD birth entry on GRO indexes
Edith MANSELL mmn POSTANS
1891 Sep Quarter in SOLIHULL Volume 06D Page 573
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Yes I do believe You have finally solved it and I am very grateful to you. I would like that picture of Walter you say is on Ancestry so I might try and get that I can then put it in the book I am writing.
Its a shame Jean Goode had died because I'm sure she would have known her step grandmother. I may try and contact her sister Brenda up north somewhere. Her brother Keith as moved abroad somewhere.
Thank You So Much for your help.
Alan
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It looks as if that is the correct entry for Edith surname MONSELLon 1939 register
Only just noticed that her sister Matilda Mansell was registered with same year and page number
Twins?
MANSELL, MATILDA mmn POSTANS
1891 S Quarter in SOLIHULL Volume 06D Page 573
using the same dob 10 7 1891 on 1939 Register
Warwick R.D., Warwickshire
Matilda Woodward 1891
Possible death Warwickshire 1966 age 74
Matilda married in 1926
Matilda Woodward age 74
Parish: Hatton
Death Date: 6 Feb 1966 Burial Date: 11 Feb 1966
Matilda Woodward Probate Date: 7 Apr 1966 to M Bean (her sister)
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I hadn't noticed Matilda recently because I had only got Edith's window open but when I have the parents window open I can see all the children and their births. in fact I had Matilda as 11/7/1891 for some reason, I usually put by the DOB in brackets at the end of the 1939 info.
I have never been able to find anything on Tom Bean only the marriage in 1938 I have searched his name before no birth, census, 1939 death or parents I do have Mabel's DOB 16/4/1899 which I must have got from her death.
I will check the Burial out tomorrow and the Probate at the records office.
Good work every little helps.
Alan
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I have never been able to find anything on Tom Bean only the marriage in 1938 I have searched his name before no birth, census, 1939 death or parents I do have Mabel's DOB 16/4/1899 which I must have got from her death.
I can't place either on 1939 register even using dob for Mabel ???
the only one I came up with ???
Mabel Bean 1899
Christopher G Bean 1897
East Retford Nottingham
but you did get her dob from death record
Mabel Bean Age: 87
Birth Date: 16 Apr 1899
Registration Date:Jan 1987 Birmingham Volume: 32 Page: 1696
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I wonder if I dare mention another one of their sisters Annie born 1889 says Yardley birth reg. Sept qtr 1889 Solihull 6d 547.
I have her at home with her parents in 1891 and 1901. Then the last time I see her in Edgbaston with the Wood family.
I did see a Marriage Henry Hutchison Dec qtr 1919 Birmingham 6d 496.
There is a child John M Hutchison born Sept qtr 1921 West Brom. 6d 1500 mmn Mansell
I suppose I need to check 1939.
Alan
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I wonder if I dare mention another one of their sisters Annie born 1889 says Yardley
birth reg. Sept qtr 1889 Solihull 6d 547.
Annie Mansell Baptism 11 Aug 1889 Yardley, St Edburgha, Worcestershire
Just in case needed baptism of her other two sisters
Minnie Mansell Baptism 26 Feb 1888 Yardley, St Edburgha, Worcestershire
Adelaide May Mansell bp date 1 Jul 1894 Yardley, Worcester
she married Mar 1921 Birmingham A E Jones, and died Jun 1931 age 37
I did see a Marriage Henry Hutchison Dec qtr 1919 Birmingham 6d 496.
I suppose I need to check 1939.
You could try searching the 1939 register for Annie using month 08 and year 1889,
it would appear the Annie Mansell who married Henry Hutchinson born c1882
Birmingham C.B., Warwickshire, England
Henry Hutchinson b1872
Annie Hutchinson b1882
and 1 more person are on this record
Is it possible she didn't marry - there's this death but can't say if she was single or married
Sep 1956 Birmingham 9c 159 Annie Mansell age 68 (born c1888)
and this one
Jun 1977 Basford
Annie MANSELL born 6 AU 1889
on further investigation looks as if she's nee Beesley married 1916 Willliam Mansell
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Hi Lady
Yes I do have all the Baptisms. Also Minnie's death 1894 but no burial.
Adelaide I am also happy with the info I have on her, Her husband Albert E Jones I have nothing on him at all but that is ok.
I did go through the 1939 for everyone in my tree about a year ago but just as a quick search so now I am concentrating on each individual family I will try different spellings and ages.
Alan
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Hi Lady.
Its not my Annie that married Henry Hutchison because I have found the marriage and that Annie was born in 1882 but her father was John and one of the witnesses was Emma so she is probably John's wife.
So I think its between these three deaths for Annie Mansell Died 1970 in Enfield born 28/3/1889 and as my Annie was registered Sept qtr I think that rules her out.
The second one is Annie Mansell died 1968 Dudley B1889
Third one is Annie Mansell died 1956 Birmingham I would think this is the most likely.
I also think I have found Tom Bean born in Hull in 1889 died 1967 in Birmingham think I found him in later years travelling heavy goods driver. Can't find Mabel tried everything.
Alan
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I also think I have found Tom Bean born in Hull in 1889 died 1967 in Birmingham think I found him in later years travelling heavy goods driver.
Can't find Mabel tried everything.
Sorry not spotting anything either even with Mabel’s dob and using variants ???
Did they have children?
Doesn’t appear to be any probate record for Tom or Mabel Bean
Only suggestions I can offer is obtaining either
1938 m/c to find out more info. ie where they were living, Tom’s occ., his father’s name
and you could use that address on 1939 Register
1967 d/c for Tom to see if Mabel was informant and address
Check Electoral Registers for Birmingham from date of marriage to Mabel’s death 1987
This is all I found on Midlands, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1955
1922 Yardley
Tom Bean address 4 back 9 Charles Road
There were also these two entries for
1927 address 10 Saltash Grove & 1930 address 97 Glovers Road
Tom Bean is with Ethel May Bean
I think its between these three deaths for
Annie Mansell Died 1970 in Enfield born 28/3/1889
as my Annie was registered Sept qtr I think that rules her out.
I agree with that
The second one is Annie Mansell died 1968 Dudley B1889
Third one is Annie Mansell died 1956 Birmingham I would think this is the most likely.
I would agree the latter Annie is more likely shame there's no dob or probate
When did Annie’s father Arthur die ?
There’s these entries Midlands, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1955
1920/22 Moseley Acock’s Green Ward
Arthur & Annie Mansell
address 913 Warwick Road
1925 Mosely
Arthur & Annie Mansell
address 913 Warwick Road
also there together 1927 and in 1930 Mabel is with them both
and by 1935 there's only Arthur & Mabel Mansell at that address
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Thanks Lady.
I am going to take a trip to Birmingham Library next week before I pay out for another certificate because I bought 3 last week, two of which(marriages) may come today. They have a book there that tells you which church the marriage was at by the number unless its a registery office. I am going to go through the St Edburgha Marriages at Yardley for 1938.
Alan
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I now have both marriage certificates Alfred Lynes to Edith Mansell and Walter G Goode to Edith Mansell. It does confirm the correct fathers as we thought.
I also have those two photos of Walter Goode from Ancestry.
Alan
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When did Annie’s father Arthur die ?
There’s these entries Midlands, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1955
1920/22 Moseley Acock’s Green Ward
Arthur & Annie Mansell
address 913 Warwick Road
1925 Mosely
Arthur & Annie Mansell
address 913 Warwick Road
also there together 1927 and in 1930 Mabel is with them both
and by 1935 there's only Arthur & Mabel Mansell at that address
[/quote]
Arthur died in 1918 and his second wife Annie 1934. So he cant be there in 1925 etc.
Alan
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I now have both marriage certificates Alfred Lynes to Edith Mansell and Walter G Goode to Edith Mansell. It does confirm the correct fathers as we thought.
I also have those two photos of Walter Goode from Ancestry.
Good news :)
There’s these entries from
Midlands, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1955
1920/22 Moseley Acock’s Green Ward
Arthur & Annie Mansell
address 913 Warwick Road
1925 Mosely
Arthur & Annie Mansell
address 913 Warwick Road
also there together 1927 and in 1930 Mabel is with them both
and by 1935 there's only Arthur & Mabel Mansell at that address
Arthur died in 1918 and his second wife Annie 1934.
So he cant be there in 1925 etc.
Just a coincidence then that they have the same names as your Mansell family
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Arthur died in 1918 and his second wife Annie 1934.
So he cant be there in 1925 etc.
Your Arthur Mansell born c 1865 Coleshill Warwickshire
1887 Married Fanny Postans, she died 1909 reg. Solihull
1911 Married Annie Welsh, Ann Mansell died 1934 age 74 reg. Birmingham
There is another
Arthur Mansell born c1865 born B’Ham
his occ. chandelier maker son of Edward spun filer he married 1898 widow Sarah WRAGG (nee Stuart)
Sarah Mansell died 1936 death registered Birmingham
For info. Arthur married to Sarah on 1901c RG13; Piece: 2856; Folio: 8; Page: 7
Do you have the 1918 death certificate registered in Birmingham confirming this is your Arthur?
There is another death entry
1945 Warwick Arthur Mansell age 80 (born c 1865)
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I might have made a real error. I don't have the death certificate for Arthur.
The marriage of Edith and Walter Goode in 1941 says Arthur is a retired postman dose not say deceased. It does say Walter's father is deceased.
Alan
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I might have made a real error. I don't have the death certificate for Arthur.
So it's possible that is your Mansell family on the Electoral Register living at 913 Warwick Road
The marriage of Edith and Walter Goode in 1941 says Arthur is a retired postman dose not say deceased.
If I remember correctly found Edith surname Monsell found on 1939 register Coventry
Could this be her father - perhaps his occupation will be a postman
Coventry C.B., Warwickshire
Arthur Mansell 1864
he appears to be in the same household as persons below
Herbert P Jones 1888
Annie Jones 1889
Joan Audrey M Grayson (Jones) 1918 (married 1941 / died 1966)
This appears to be their marriage on 21 Dec 1911
Herbert Percy Jones age 21 to Annie Kendrick age 21 single father Arthur Kendrick tile cutter
Annie on the 1901 census RG13; Piece: 2834; Folio: 78; Page: 48 with father Arthur & mother Mary
but there's this birth entry which seems to match the above Joan on 1939 Register ???
Mar 1919 Solihull 6d 1084
Joan A M JONES mmn MANSELL
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Your a genius that is Arthur and fanny's daughter, sister of Edith and Mabel Annie bapt. 11/8/1889.
Alan
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I will go and get that 1939 image later, it will have Arthur's DOB on it which I have not got. Because I thought he died in 1918 I never looked for him in 1939.
Alan :)
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Don't understand the marriage and Kenderick name.
Sorry getting ahead of my self Annie Mansell Bapt. 11/8/1889.
1901 with her parents RG13/2922 F190 P40.
and later servant with a wood family in Edgbaston.
Alan
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I wonder where the Kendrick's are in 1891.
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Hopefully the 1939 Register will confirm if it's correct Arthur and whether he is indeed in the same household as the Jones family
I can't see a birth Jones/Kenderick only the one Jones/Mansell
there doesn't appear to be another birth entry for a Joan A M Jones ???
Annie Kenderick is on the 1901 census with her father Arthur occ file cutter and mother Mary plus siblings
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I wonder where the Kendrick's are in 1891.
No Annie Kendrick
RG12; Piece: 2399; Folio: 120; Page: 34
Arthur Kendrick, file cutter , Mary, Alice & Ethel
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Annie Kendrick born 5 May 1891
Baptism 27 May 1891 Birmingham, St Chrysostom, Warwickshire
f Arthur file cutter m Mary
Alice Kendrick Age: 1 born 15 Jan 1890
Baptism 27 May 1891 Birmingham, St Chrysostom, Warwickshire, England
F Arthur, file cutter m Mary
Alice Kendrick 22 father Arthur file cutter married
25 Dec 1910 Birmingham, Immanuel, Warwickshire
Witnesses Herbert Jones & Annie Kendrick
Ethel May Kendrick 24 f Arthur tile cutter (deceased) married
25 Dec 1914 Birmingham, Immanuel, Warwickshire,
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So could Joan Audrey M Jones not be the daughter of Herbert and Annie but related and also related to Arthur.
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So could Joan Audrey M Jones not be the daughter of Herbert and Annie but related and also related to Arthur.
I think you would need to check her birth certificate to confirm parents names
and also check 1939 register entry first to establish to see if Arthur is with this Jones family
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My thoughts exactly on both accounts, Joan could be another child like Peter Philip. Records office closed today so off to the Library now.
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Arthur is living in the same house as the Jones's is occupation is jobbing gardener retired now that is 2 years before the marriage, he was a carter on the roads also a mattress maker in the past.. The Monsell is definately Mansell. Need that birth cert.
Alan
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Arthur's daughter Adelaide married a Albert E Jones in 1921. I don't know when or where he was born or when he died. Adelaide died in 1931. So she is not in the 1939. Maybe they had Joan Audrey a two years before they were married and Albert is some relation to Herbert. ???
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Haven't found a connection with Albert E Jones to Herbert Percy Jones
Herbert's father Thomas & mother Sarah did have seven children (don't know all their names) but only 3 living by 1911
father Thomas was a brassworker and Herbert a warehouseman on his marriage to Annie
1901c RG13; Piece: 2828; Folio: 88; Page: 40
Thomas 52 brass founder, Sarah 50 , Alice 20 & Herbert P 10
1881 census
Thomas Jones brass founder, Sarah children Thomas E 5 & Alice 1
I have just found this baptism
William Herbert Jones born 7th June 1912 son of Herbert Percy & Annie
father’s occupation warehouseman, bp 30 June Immanuel Birmingham
This looks to be his birth registration but in the September quarter rather than June
Sep 1912 Birmingham 6d 22
Jones William H mmn Kendrick
FreeBMD shows a few other Jones births reg. in Birmingham with mmn Kendrick
and one in 1923 mmn Mansell
Do you have the exact dob for Herbert Percy, Annie & Joan?
Could this be his death?
Mar 1973 Birmingham
Herbert Percy Jones born 2 Oct 1890
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Annie 16/7/88, Joan 14/12/18, looks like Hubert but could be Herbert P 20/6/88
Alan
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I do have the 1911 and 1901 images.
They are Herbert
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Annie 16/7/88, Joan 14/12/18, looks like Hubert but could be Herbert P 20/6/88
:)
Arthur's daughter Adelaide married a Albert E Jones in 1921.
I don't know when or where he was born or when he died. Adelaide died in 1931.
Difficult without his age, an occupation and possible father's name
His middle name maybe Edward
1927/1930 Yardley Electoral Register an
Albert Edward Jones & Adelaide May Jones were living at 264 Monica Road
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Yes that has to be her Adelaide May and Albert E surely not two Adelaide May's marrying an Albert E Jones and living in Yardley.
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I have just noticed I have in my notes as a possibility from a while ago. born 31/5/1893 widower at Heath Street, Birmingham but I haven't got down Albert or Albert Edward Jones.
There is a Death 1967 aged 74 reg. Warwick.
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I have just noticed I have in my notes as a possibility from a while ago. born 31/5/1893 widower at Heath Street, Birmingham but I haven't got down Albert or Albert Edward Jones.
There is a Death 1967 aged 74 reg. Warwick.
This is the only Albert that shows using freesearch 1939
Birmingham C.B., Warwickshire
Albert Jones 1893
there are 2 people who are officially closed
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I will have another look later. That is probably the one I mentioned in Heath Street.
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I have just noticed I have in my notes as a possibility from a while ago.
born 31/5/1893 widower at Heath Street, Birmingham but I haven't got down Albert or Albert Edward Jones.
Don't know if either of these Albert's are connected to Adelaide
There are these and quite a number of Albert Edward Jones registered in various places Jun 1893
Jun 1893
Jones Albert W. Bromwich 6b 879
Jones Albert Aston 6d 272
from GRO indexes giving mmn
JONES, ALBERT mmn DALLOW
1893 J Quarter in ASTON Volume 06D Page 272
Married Sep 1883 Kiddeminster
William Jones female name on same page Fanny Dallow
Albert Jones born 2 May 1893
Baptism Date: 9 Aug 1893 Ashted, St James the Less, Warwickshire, England
f William , occ. railway clerk, Sydney road, m Fanny
1901 RG13; Piece: 2863; Folio: 147; Page: 44 living 15 Sydney Road
and
JONES, ALBERT mmn GILES
1893 J Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 06B Page 879
There's this marriage
Abel Jones married Minnie Giles 24 Sep 1887 Christchurch Quinton Worcestershire
1901 RG13; Piece: 2715; Folio: 124; Page: 13
– can’t place Albert b1893 West Brom with them on the census, perhaps this Albert may have died ???
Albert Jones Sept 1893 WEST BROMWICH
If you can obtain his father's name from the marriage certificate etc.... that would hopefully
make him easier to find on censuses