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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Carmarthenshire => Topic started by: dreamangel on Wednesday 13 September 17 16:35 BST (UK)
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Although I've been pottering about with my family tree for a couple of years now, I have really only gathered information online. I suppose this would be a stupid question to most on here, but how/where do I go to look up actual 'hard copy' records - Llanelli Library..? What exactly do I look through/ask for - old newspapers..?
I'm trying to find out information on the following people (deceased):
My paternal grandfather, David John Davies b. 1907
My paternal great-grandfather, David Davies b. 1885
I have an address of 42 Ann Street, Llanelly (which no longer exists today by all accounts) from the marriage certificate for David John Davies b. 1907 and Gwendoline Davies 1907.
I'd like to know:
Who did David Davies b. 1885 marry and how can I be sure I'm looking at the right info when there are so many David Davies's in Llanelli around that time? Is there any way of linking the address with these people? How can I find out if David Davies b. 1885 had siblings? I can't find any military information on either David Davies or his son David John Davies b. 1907 (done that I can be sure of being for the right people anyway).
I'd be grateful for any advice on how I could go about researching information 'in real life' now, to supplement what I've found out so far online.
Thanks very much! :)
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have you checked the 1939 register on FindmyPast? We can't look up for you because of copyright, but by using the free search, there is a David Davies born 1885 living at 42 Ann Street. FindMyPast has a search that allows you to search for specific street names.
What occupations are given for the Davids on the marriage cert? Have you tried looking for the witnesses?
There are Welsh newpapers online, only up till 1919 at the moment
http://newspapers.library.wales/
Looking for obituaries or wedding notices can give useful family info.
There is an Ann Street still
http://www.streetlist.co.uk/address/Ann-Street-Llanelli-SA15-1TB
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have you checked the 1939 register on FindmyPast? We can't look up for you because of copyright, but by using the free search, there is a David Davies born 1885 living at 42 Ann Street. FindMyPast has a search that allows you to search for specific street names.
What occupations are given for the Davids on the marriage cert? Have you tried looking for the witnesses?
There are Welsh newpapers online, only up till 1919 at the moment
http://newspapers.library.wales/
Looking for obituaries or wedding notices can give useful family info.
There is an Ann Street still
http://www.streetlist.co.uk/address/Ann-Street-Llanelli-SA15-1TB
Thank you for this! I'll take a look at that newspaper link, thank you.
Yes, Ann Street is still in Llanelli but weirdly there's no number 42??
Yes I've checked the 1939 register and found them, but I have no idea who the other people are in the house. I've tried attaching the images of both the 1939 register and marriage certificate - hopefully that'll show up (and I hope I'm allowed to do that!).
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Hi if the David John Davies was born September qtr 1906 Llanelly v11a page 1194, Mothers maiden name HOWELLS, there is a marriage David Davies to Sarah Howell March qtr 1906 Llanelly 11a 1364?
Keyboard86
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Hi if the David John Davies was born September qtr 1906 Llanelly v11a page 1194, Mothers maiden name HOWELLS, there is a marriage David Davies to Sarah Howell March qtr 1906 Llanelly 11a 1364?
Keyboard86
Ah excellent! I had seen that name on someone else's family tree but I couldn't work out how they'd got that name or if it was accurate, so thanks for the explanation. Thank you :)
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Hi again, all the other people in the 1939 household with the exception of Dorothy ( Victoria ) are mothers maiden name Howell/s, Dorothy Victoria HURD was the daughter of Samuel Hurd who married Ira M Davies Dec qtr 1932 Lambeth, Ira M Davies was born Dec qtr 1911 Llanelly mmn Howells, Ira M HARD is also ( on original ) at 42, Ann Street.
Keyboard86
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free search of 1939 shows a Davies family at 3 Caroline Street, headed by Mary E. Checking the birth regs of children gives a maiden name of Morris, so possibly this marriage
John Davies june qtr 1906 Llanelly vol 11a pg 1793 with Mary Elizabeth Morris on the same page.
and this birth reg
Gwendoline Davies june qtr 1907 Llanelly vol 11a pg 1224 mother's maiden name Morris from GRO index
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forgot to say you need to remove that screenshot of the 1939 register. It's ok for you to transcribe the details.
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Hi again, all the other people in the 1939 household with the exception of Dorothy ( Victoria ) are mothers maiden name Howell/s, Dorothy Victoria HURD was the daughter of Samuel Hurd who married Ira M Davies Dec qtr 1932 Lambeth, Ira M Davies was born Dec qtr 1911 Llanelly mmn Howells, Ira M HARD is also ( on original ) at 42, Ann Street.
Keyboard86
See this is why I doubt some of the information I have - I didn't realise that the household maiden names were Howell/s and Hurd. They are definitely not connected to me. Thank you for pointing that out and explaining it!
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Hi again, all the other people in the 1939 household with the exception of Dorothy ( Victoria ) are mothers maiden name Howell/s, Dorothy Victoria HURD was the daughter of Samuel Hurd who married Ira M Davies Dec qtr 1932 Lambeth, Ira M Davies was born Dec qtr 1911 Llanelly mmn Howells, Ira M HARD is also ( on original ) at 42, Ann Street.
Keyboard86
See this is why I doubt some of the information I have - I didn't realise that the household maiden names were Howell/s and Hurd. They are definitely not connected to me. Thank you for pointing that out and explaining it!
Can you explain please, so the people in 1939 at 42, Ann Street have no connection to the David John Davies who married Gwendonline Davies?
Maybe I am missing something, Samuel Hurd married Ira M Davies ( The sister of David John Davies)?
Suggest you check the 1911 census for David John Davies b c 1906 living in Llanelly?
Keyboard86
PS what was the occupation of David Davies ( The father of David John Davies) when he married Gwendoline Davies?
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This is really helpful! Thank you. The people at 3 Caroline Street on the 1939 register are definitely my family because that address is documented elsewhere for them too.
42 Ann Street is the address on the marriage certificate for David John Davies and Gwendoline Davies, and that was in 1931 so I'd hoped that the family would still show as being at the same address in the 1939 register. I really don't know who the other people listed are though:
Mary JONES (DAVIES), dob 08 Jul 1920
Margaret WILTSHIRE (DAVIES), dob 23 Jun 1923
Dorothy (Victoria) LONG (DAVIES, HARD)
What does it mean when the names are in brackets..?
How did you come to knowing Ira M Davies is the sister of David John Davies, and that it's definitely 'my' David John Davies?
The occupation of David Davies (father of David John Davies, married to Gwendoline Davies) was a Railway Engine Driver.
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:) So look for a David Davies b c 1885 living in Llanelly with wife Sarah Jane and see what his occupation is in 1911?
Keyboard86
Re the names on 1939, work backwards so Margaret Davies married a Wiltshire?
You may also like to know the brother of David John a Timothy Davies b 1909 was married and living in Grant Street, Llanelly in 1939 a short distance from Ann Street?
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:) So look for a David Davies b c 1885 living in Llanelly with wife Sarah Jane and see what his occupation is in 1911?
Keyboard86
Re the names on 1939, work backwards so Margaret Davies married a Wiltshire?
You may also like to know the brother of David John a Timothy Davies b 1909 was married and living in Grant Street, Llanelly in 1939 a short distance from Ann Street?
So you're referring to the 1911 Census entry that lists:
John HOWELL
Mary HOWELL
Henry George HOWELL
David DAVIES
Sarah Jane DAVIES
David John DAVIES
Timothy DAVIES
Living at 7 Park Eynon, Llanelly??
I still can't work out how you got that Wiltshire link lol! I'm glad you did though. You've been a huge help, thank you so much.
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:) Bear in mind I do not know where and when a Margaret Davies living in Llanelly 1939 married a gentleman by the surname of Wiltshire, but she did, possibly Newport 1955?
Keyboard86
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Ok, now I know this is the correct link I think I need to order a marriage certificate for
David DAVIES b. 1885 and Sarah Jane HOWELL b. 1886.
Another question - is it common for names like Howell to end up being recorded incorrectly as 'Howells' instead? I seem to have found some other trees that share people, but they're 'Howells'.
I seem to have found the parents and siblings for Sarah Jane Howell's family (not on any censuses yet but...) which seem to be a match but they're 'Howells':
John HOWELLS, b. 1841
Mary REES, b. 1841
Sarah Jane HOWELL, b. 1886
David HOWELLS, b. 1863
Mary Ann HOWELLS, b. 1866
Margaret HOWELLS, b. 1871
Harriet HOWELLS, b. 1874
William HOWELLS, b. 1877
John HOWELLS, b. 1881
Thomas HOWELLS, b. 1884
Henry George HOWELLS, b. 1890
Am I on the right track with this?
My tree is on Ancestry if you can find it - ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/tree/58678521/family or the tree is called "Emma's family tree (Davies/Evans/Williams/Roberts)"
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Hi if the David John Davies was born September qtr 1906 Llanelly v11a page 1194, Mothers maiden name HOWELLS, there is a marriage David Davies to Sarah Howell March qtr 1906 Llanelly 11a 1364?
Keyboard86
Going on the marriage re Howell/Howells this should answer your question?!
Keyboard86
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Oh yes, that was the information I was going to use to order the certificates - thank you for that :) :)
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:) To keep you interested the next name on 1939 for Dorothy ( Victoria) Hurd is she apparently married a Davies, then a Long, I can locate the Davies/Long. also her mother Ira M Hurd nee Davies b 1911, when did she die?
Keyboard86
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Howell or Howells is a variant, I wouldn't worry about that difference. It depends on who is recording it and how they spelled the name.
;)
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:) To keep you interested the next name on 1939 for Dorothy ( Victoria) Hurd is she apparently married a Davies, then a Long, I can locate the Davies/Long. also her mother Ira M Hurd nee Davies b 1911, when did she die?
Keyboard86
An Ira May Hurd b 23rd August 1909 died December qtr 1978 Llanelly, the Ira M Hurd/Hard nee Davies in 1939 was born 23rd August 1911, but not registered until Dec qtr 1911
Keyboard86
PS I can see via Electoral register a possible Dorothy V Long with a Richard H Long in Basildon, Essex?
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:) To keep you interested the next name on 1939 for Dorothy ( Victoria) Hurd is she apparently married a Davies, then a Long, I can locate the Davies/Long. also her mother Ira M Hurd nee Davies b 1911, when did she die?
Keyboard86
Oh fab, thanks for that. I'll look that up when I'm back in work on Tuesday. :) :)
Speaking of the 1939 register, I cannot find my maternal grandmother Gwendoline DAVIES (also nee. Davies), known as Gwennie, on the register at all. Do let me know if you can find her! ???
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:) Hi if you look for a Gwennie Davies b c 1907 you might find her with her husband in Llanelly?
Keyboard86
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If it's that easy to find them on the 1939 register I don't know where I've been going wrong then lol! ::)
I've also found a 1911 census entry which shows the following people at 4 Stradey Road, Llanelly:
David John DAVIES ('Head')
Sarah Jane DAVIES ('Wife')
May DAVIES ('Daughter')
Jane JOHN ('Relative')
Muriel JOHN ('Relative')
Are these my people..? Where's Timothy?
I hope you don't mind me asking all these questions, it's just I really doubt my ability to do this accurately.
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:) So look for a David Davies b c 1885 living in Llanelly with wife Sarah Jane and see what his occupation is in 1911?
Keyboard86
Re the names on 1939, work backwards so Margaret Davies married a Wiltshire?
You may also like to know the brother of David John a Timothy Davies b 1909 was married and living in Grant Street, Llanelly in 1939 a short distance from Ann Street?
So you're referring to the 1911 Census entry that lists:
John HOWELL
Mary HOWELL
Henry George HOWELL
David DAVIES
Sarah Jane DAVIES
David John DAVIES
Timothy DAVIES
Living at 7 Park Eynon, Llanelly??
I still can't work out how you got that Wiltshire link lol! I'm glad you did though. You've been a huge help, thank you so much.
These are your family?
Keyboard86
Timothy Davies was living in Grant Street, Llanelly where Gwennie b 1907 was living?
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Thank you for confirming that - sorry if I'm irritating with all this! Very grateful for your help. ;D
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;D Anything else you wish to irritate us about?
Keyboard86
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;D Anything else you wish to irritate us about?
Keyboard86
I'm sure it won't take me long to come up with something else lol! ;D :P
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:) Hi again, for my own benefit I am trying to work out the Dorothy ( Victoria) Hurd who appears to marry a Davies and then a Long, her mother was Ira May Davies who married a Samuel Hurd, it is the marriage to Davies that I cannot confirm, but a Dorothy V Davies married a Richard H C Long in Llanelly, think he is the Richard Henry Charles Long living 5 minutes from Dorothy V?
A Mary Jones born 8th July 1920 died December qtr 1998 Llanelli aged 78
Keyboard86