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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Census Lookup and Resource Requests => Topic started by: Nese on Friday 15 September 17 08:01 BST (UK)
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I've found one of ours in 1914 Kelly's Directory for Reading. The entry reads:
Biddles, William Byron R.V.S., A.A.C.L., A.P.S.L. Sydney and what looks like 1o, 40 Prospect Street; TN 102.
William was a chemist/druggist and veterinary surgeon. One census has 'dental and veterinary surgeon' but having seen no further evidence of the occupation of dentist elsewhere I suspect that 'chemist' may have been said but heard as 'dentist'. (An unusual combination in any case.)
My problem is that I cannot find what the abbreviations stand for. Any help will be appreciated.
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RVS = Royal Veterinary Surgeon?
A search on Google seems to say it's really the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeon
https://www.rcvs.org.uk/
or the Royal Veterinary College
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Veterinary_College
Can't find the others yet!
By the way, have you done a search on Google for "William Byron Biddles"? (You need to put the speech marks round the name)
Lots of stuff comes up about him, including what looks like lots of old photographs - didn't go through them. Of course, that may be your site! In which case you'll know all about it! ;)
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Quoting from the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons:
Please bear in mind that, before 1881, it was possible to practise veterinary surgery without being a Member of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons and without having a degree from an approved university. Even after the 1881 Act it was possible for persons other than members of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons to practise veterinary surgery, but they were not able to go to court to recover fees and charges for doing so. It was not until the Veterinary Surgeons Act 1948 that it became an absolute requirement for anyone practising veterinary surgery to be a registered veterinary surgeon, and even then there were a number of exceptions.
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Information on dentists at https://bda.org/museum/enquiries/PublishingImages/-and-research/was-your-ancestor-a-dentist-factsheet.pdf. The BBC Two documentary "The Victorian Pharmacy" showed one of the team branching out into dentistry in the final episode. As a vet he would have learnt all about "teeth pulling". In one of the James Herriot books he is getting a tooth extracted by a RAF dentist and comments that that is how he does it. The dentists asks for his occupation to which he replies a vet!
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Information on dentists at https://bda.org/museum/enquiries/PublishingImages/-and-research/was-your-ancestor-a-dentist-factsheet.pdf. The BBC Two documentary "The Victorian Pharmacy" showed one of the team branching out into dentistry in the final episode. As a vet he would have learnt all about "teeth pulling". In one of the James Herriot books he is getting a tooth extracted by a RAF dentist and comments that that is how he does it. The dentists asks for his occupation to which he replies a vet!
One of my favourite TV programmes is "The Yorkshire Vet", which is James Herriott's old practice in North Yorkshire. Scarcely a week goes by without an animal having a tooth extracted or a horse having its teeth filed down.
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RVS means he was entered in the "Register of Veterinary Surgeons" According to Kelly's Directory of Berkshire, 1915, he was not a Fellow or a Member of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons.
Stan
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The first Veterinary Surgeons Act passed in 1881 allowed the RCVS to maintain a register of unqualified 'existing practitioners', all of whom had to have been practising since at least 1876.
Stan
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R.V.S., A.A.C.L., A.P.S.L. Sydney
Sydney as in Australia? Did he go abroad at some point?
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Good afternoon,
I looked at 2 lists of Australian post nominals but nothing like that came up. Also looked at an exhaustive list of British ones, nothing there either.
John915
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R.V.S., A.A.C.L., A.P.S.L. Sydney
Sydney as in Australia? Did he go abroad at some point?
From the Kelly's Directory of Reading, 1914
Biddles William Byron R.V.S., A.A.C.L., A.P.S.L. veterinary surgeon, Sydney lodge, 40 Prospect Street; T.N. 102 i.e. Telephone Number 102
Stan
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From the Berkshire Chronicle - Saturday 01 April 1882
SYDNEY LODGE, OXFORD ROAD TO BE LET, with immediate possession, a DETACHED VILLA RESIDENCE, well situate on rising ground, near the Oxford Road, Reading.
Sydney Lodge was on Prospect Street see https://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.html#/Map/470479/173259/13/100071
Stan
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So much information. You people are wonderful.
Thanks Groom and John915. No he did not come to Australia. I searched that possibility too in case he had qualifications here. Also searched every list I could find both here and UK for the letters he used after his name.
However, I should have realised that what looked like 1o was in fact lo and standing for lodge as that is part of my daughter's address in UK. I see, Stan, that you have the full address and have found the next year's Kelly's register. I didn't even realise that T.N. meant telephone number. Thanks for the link to the map.
I was quite sure that the VS would stand for Vet.Surg. however could not figure out the R. Register now makes perfect sense. My 'googling' skills will need upgrading - I could not find anything about vets during that time period.
Thanks KGarrad for that further info.
Oh, how happy I am that I don't have to have my teeth drilled by the man who looks after my dog. I guess if they are only pulling teeth there is not much difference between ours and an animal's.
The TV show about James Herriott shown in Oz was called "All Creatures Great and Small" and we watched regularly. Yes Rena, great stories. Thanks for the link carlineric.
goldie61, not my site but looks extremely interesting. Thank you. A reminder to search on a name instead of relying on ancestry. (Found an aunt mentioned on WDYTYA by googling her name, which was not remotely unique, and found the whole family that was eluding me.) Must do it more often.
William was orphaned by the time he was 10. He was a druggist's apprentice at age 20. Looks like he must have had some good mentors.
Thanks, all. At least RVS is solved. Now to search for the others. And to investigate those links.
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My family were all vet's throughout most of the 1800's ;D
So, I have done some research previously, on the occupation.
The Royal College will (for a fee) search their records for you.
My search didn't reveal much, however. ::)
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I'm stumped, so do hope somebody can come up with the meanings of the abbreviations; A.A.C.L., A.P.S.L
Taking on boad that the ancestor gave himself the title of "Druggist", I wondered if either of the "A"s could be "Associate (of)" and/or "Apothecary". I did also wonder if the "P" could be Pharmacist".
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I'm stumped, so do hope somebody can come up with the meanings of the abbreviations; A.A.C.L., A.P.S.L
Taking on boad that the ancestor gave himself the title of "Druggist", I wondered if either of the "A"s could be "Associate (of)" and/or "Apothecary". I did also wonder if the "P" could be Pharmacist".
Obviously either not very common or not used now as nothing comes up in Google.
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Building on what Rena said and from my own grandfather being first Assistant Chemist then Member of Pharmaceutical Society
I think A P S is Associate of the Pharmaceutical Society but not sure what the L would stand for - London? Licensed?
A A C possibly Assistant Apothercary and Chemist but again not sure what L might be.
Jan
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Building on what Rena said and from my own grandfather being first Assistant Chemist then Member of Pharmaceutical Society
I think A P S is Associate of the Pharmaceutical Society but not sure what the L would stand for - London? Licensed?
A A C possibly Assistant Apothercary and Chemist but again not sure what L might be.
Jan
That looks very possible - look at this https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=nhoUAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA617&lpg=PA617&dq=Associate+of+the+Pharmaceutical+Society+London&source=bl&ots=Pe2auGAqnE&sig=34cCHFVoCZb3AEl9PDQ29WZNojs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj30_P3rarWAhWXHsAKHYceB_0Q6AEIYzAJ#v=onepage&q=Associate%20of%20the%20Pharmaceutical%20Society%20London&f=false
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https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/25307/page/210
See foot of col. 1
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The York Herald, 17 May 1895, reported an arbitration case about "fly gum". Amongst those providing expert knowledge
"William Byron Biddle, qualified chemist, said he had had considerable experience in the manufacture of sticky fly paper ....".
However, nothing in the item to confirm him as "your" William Byron Biddle..
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Before dissolving the partnership Sprent and Biddle advertised as "Registered Dentists" under the heading "Artificial Teeth & Painless Dentistry"
1887 list of registered dentists
https://archive.org/stream/dentistsregister1887gene/dentistsregister1887gene_djvu.txt
(screen search for "biddle")
They also advertised certain potions for a variety of farm animals!
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Once again you have all come up with some very interesting information.
I think that the 1884 dissolution of the partnership with Charles Sprent may have come about by Sprent's retirement. There was a chemist G. Sprent operating at 91 Broad St from 1856 at least. This may have been Charles' father. In 1881 Charles Sprent, 51, chemist and dentist, was living in Overton and his housekeeper, Lucy Cooper, later became William Biddles' wife. Certainly ties them all together. Charles' was retired by 1891.
It think your suggestions for the other abbreviations are of merit (thanks janan, groom and Rena). I'll continue to search for them but happy to go for an approximation at present.
hanes teulu, the sticky flypaper story is interesting. I remember those rather disgusting looking things hanging in the kitchens of my childhood. Amusing that my mother, who hated them passionately but used them from necessity, had no idea that her relation used to manufacture them. In the ad he claims to be a qualified chemist so there will be a record somewhere hopefully. And I am confident he is the same man. There were 3 William Byron Biddles (sometimes Biddle), all related. I haven't fully researched the others yet but haven't seen chemist mentioned so far.
Thanks to hanes teulu I see he was registered as a dentist 9 Dec 1878 although he only had that on census record in 1901 and I can't see a connection to either of the other post nominals (thanks John915, I could not remember what they were called). I have now found him on the Dentist Register until 1930 the year of his death. I've looked at the Dentist's Registers and neither of these is listed. L.D.S. Licentiates in Dental Surgery and R.C.S. appears to be Royal College of Surgeons being the most common. WBB does not appear to have had any qualifications in dentistry.
I will also look at KGarrad's suggestion of Royal College of Vets though I suspect William also learned this on the job and is probably where he began his dentistry. It is good to know that qualifications are now a requirement.
Thanks again to you all for giving me such an insight into not only one man's life but opening up new ways of finding information.
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Building on what Rena said and from my own grandfather being first Assistant Chemist then Member of Pharmaceutical Society
I think A P S is Associate of the Pharmaceutical Society but not sure what the L would stand for - London? Licensed?
A A C possibly Assistant Apothercary and Chemist but again not sure what L might be.
Jan
The "L" could stand for Licentiate?