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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Suffolk => Topic started by: elricks on Thursday 21 September 17 05:08 BST (UK)
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Good afternoon from Australia.
Up until lunchtime, I had a disappearing 4GGF.
I now know, or have inferred, the following
James BAXTER married Phoebe BROCK n Stradbroke 1814. He was from Wingfield. No age for James, but later records show that Phoebe's YOB was 1785
He and Phoebe produced 3 daughters 1815-1826. These daughters were not Chr as infants.
He is NOT with Phoebe in 1841 and he is NOT buried in Hoxne with her.
Today I lucked on to a mention in the papers of a James BAXTER who was convicted of breaking into the counting house of Edward KERRISON, his employer. He (and others) were given 14 years transportation. One paper mentions he was from Hoxne - which for me is the clincher. My James was living there, and he disappeared from the records around this time.
James was born 1790 according to his very scant convict data, and if he is the James who died in 1842, he was born 1786
I have found a James BAXTER or PHILPOT Chr in 1792 in Cratfield. Mother Ann BAXTER, father Samuel PHILPOT. They married 7 years later.
I am comfortable that the James who was married to Phoebe is the one transported, but all is circumstantial. I have no idea if the illegitimate child of Ann and Samuel is the same man.
Does anyone have any further insight?
SHIRLEY
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Hi Shirley,
I have found a baptism for;
2-7-1786 Phoebe Brock d/o Edward & Ann Stradbroke All Saints
also if you would like this marriage;
27-7-1772 Edward Brock to Anne Nicholls " " "
I have not had any siuccess with James Baxter
It looks like Phoebe Baxter was buried 14-5-1875 aged 89) in Hoxne Sts.Peter & Paul.
I didn't find any children bapt. to James & Phoebe Baxter in the Hoxne PRs.
All from the SuffolkFHS.
I hope this helps.
Alan
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Well RIBBO, are you a star. I did not have Ann's family name or the marriage. Thanks.
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Hi
The convict indent for 6.5.1829 NSw
gives James Baxter 37 ploughman ,can shear and milk married with 5 children.Suffolk education none.
From Lord Melville ship.
This would fit with a birth May 1791- May 1792
So your baptism in 21st Nov 1791 would fit lovely.
Ciderdrinker
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Hi Shirley,
I did send a personal message the other day.
Did you not receive it?
Alan
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Hi to all,
I just stumbled across this thread whilst following up on what may be a lead or perhaps just a coincidence in relation to my 2xGR Grandfather's family.
He was William ABBOTT born in 1840 in Hoxne the illegitimate son of Elizabeth ABBOTT. In 1841 Elizabeth ABBOTT went on to marry William DURRANT in Laxfield. For various reasons, I think William DURRANT may have been William ABBOTT's natural father and therefore my 3xGR Grandfather.
This is where the first link to this thread arises. William DURRANT's parents were William DURRANT and Mary BAXTER who married in 1809 in Thornham Magna - witnesses were James BAXTER and Phoebe BROCK. Mary BAXTER was baptised in 1782 in Wingfield.
So leaving that there and going back to Elizabeth ABBOTT. She was born in 1818 in Hoxne to William ABBOTT and Judith nee FULK. I have not been able to locate Judith FULK's birth which would have been around 1790 and the only other FULK I could find in Hoxne was Martha who died in Hoxne in 1851 aged 88 so born about 1763. There is a possibility Martha was Judith's mother.
In the hunt for clues I ordered Martha's death certificate and the informant was Fanny BOYCE present at the death. Fanny BOYCE nee BAXTER was the daughter of James BAXTER and Phoebe BROCK.
So does this link all of these families together or is it just a coincidence as they were all living in the same area around the same time?
If you have found out anymore on the origins of James BAXTER I would love to hear from you. By the way from a newspaper article dated 1837 another James BAXTER appears in Hoxne. He was aged 15 at the time so he could be the son of James and Phoebe but I can't find any records to back this up.
All the best
Pinetree
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Thanks for the heads up via FamilySearch. This is is a very interesting piece of research.
I have no records for any of these people, except for James BAXTER 1791-1842, his wife Phoebe nee BROCK and his daughter Fanny who married Richard BOYCE. These are my 4th and 3rd GGP.
You asked about the origins of James. I only have the speculation that is included in my notes in the One World Tree.
""""Ann was 72 in the 1841 census and 88 in 1851, which is where her place of birth comes from. She may be the d of Stephen and Sarah BAXTER Chr in Fressingfield 19th April 1772
Stephen and Sarah BRIDGES married in Fressingfield 1765. They had
Sarah 1766
John 1768 may have died 1773
Stephen 1770
Ann (this one?) There is a death of an Ann 1778, no age given.
Henry 1774
I am not sure enough of this to make a call. This is the only couple having children in Fressingfield at the time, and the Ann who died could certainly be an adult from before Fressingfield records available or from another parish, but the lack of repeated names in Ann's children, and the fact the Philpot family were Congregationalists, means I want more proof."""
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Hi, Elricks;
There is a James Baxter bapt. ?-3-1753 Worlingworth St.Mary s/o Jacob & Alice
also there are two Stephen Bridges to choose from;
23-2-1737 s/o William & Frances in Stradbroke All Saints
23-6-1743 Stephen Bridges s/o Stephen & Sarah in Wingfield St.Andrew.
(Stephen Bridges - m - Sarah Aldous, abode both Fressingfield, in Withersdale St.Mary 6-10-1736)
Pinetree;
I have not been able to locate Judith FULK's birth which would have been around 1790 and the only other FULK I could find in Hoxne was Martha who died in Hoxne in 1851 aged 88 so born about 1763. There is a possibility Martha was Judith's mother.
This may or may not help;
Judy Fulk bapt. 15-11-1789 bbd/o Martha Fulk, pauper in Hoxne Sts.Pter & Paul, Suffolk.
I could not see Martha's baptism in the Hoxne Deanery (ex SFH CD) and there is only one other with same surname;
James bbs/o Mary Fulk bapt. 17-9-1780 in Denham(near Eye)
Hope these entries help in some way.
Alan
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Hi Elricks and ribbo39,
Thank you both for your replies.
Elricks, I can’t help wondering if your James BAXTER and my Mary BAXTER were related, maybe even siblings especially as they both have connections to Wingfield. Hopefully we will find the answer one day. One thing we do now know is that your 3xGR Grandmother Fanny BOYCE was present at the death of my 5xGR Grandmother Martha FULK so we have that connection at least.
Ribbo39, what can I say apart from you are a complete star! I first started researching my family tree 30 years ago and have never been able to make any progress with Judith FULK and now I have her baptism. I feel comfortable that I can now add Martha to my tree. I also ordered the death certificate for Mary FULK who died in Thornham Magna in 1841, maybe Martha’s sister. So where did Martha and Mary come from? I guess that’s what makes this hobby so frustrating, sorry fascinating 🤨, the answer to one question just raises a whole lot more. Thank you so much for your help.
Pinetree
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Hi Pinetree,
I was going thru my Suffolk records (ex SFHS) and noted the following "Fulk" entries;
Marriage;
William Abbott - m - Judith Fulk 13-5-1815 Hoxne
Burials;
4-3-1824 Judith Abbott, aged 34, Hoxne Sts.Peter & Paul
9-3-1841 Mary Fulk aged 84 Thornham Magna, St.Mary
13-11-1851 Martha Fulk aged 88 Hoxne, StsPeter &Paul
I know you are getting the death cert. for Mary, but the above may fill in some details for you.
Alan
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Hi Alan,
Thank you once again for the additional information.
Pinetree
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I admit to being confused. BUT I agree there must be a connection. I am going to start from the beginning, so you should not have to refer to any earlier posts from me in this thread.
I have James BAXTER married to Pheobe BROCK 14th Jan 1814. I am comfortable he is the father of Frances 1815-1877, Harriet 1820-1895 and Emma 1826-1905. I am also comfortable he was the convict (c1828) who died in Sydney 1842. There are no hints in Australian records that he married or had children in AU.
In the marriage record, the groom is from WINGFIELD.
James' birth/Chr is not confirmed to link. To marry in 1814 he had to have been born before 1796 (an arbitrary idea of mine that 18 is as young as a groom would be. I know it was legal to marry younger than this, but I would expect at least a note in passing on a marriage entry if this was the case).
I have one reference to age in his convict records, and this gives a YOB as 1791. I have another reference to age. James' burial in Sydney, where he was 56 (making YOB 1786), but I would not put too much faith in an age on a death record where the person died without any family present.
In summary, he is unlikely to have been born much before 1791.
I have chosen as the Chr 21st Nov 1791 in Cratfield. (reasoning below). The Parish register says James was named 'BAXTER or PHILPOT. This Chr occurred 8 years BEFORE Ann married Samuel PHILPOT, and I have not found any other children named similarly, but the inclusion of the name Samuel PHILPOT must mean his father was known to the Parson.
My reasoning to link James the groom to the james who was Chr is based on age, and location -- but note I have not found any Mary BAXTER linked to him.
The only other James BAXTER Chr around 1791 in the area was 26th Jan 1791 in Bury St Edmunds, Parents Robert and Susan ALDRIDGE.
AND ruminating on possible siblings named BAXTER, I make the following - unconnected - statements.
1. There is plenty of time between James' birth as BAXTER, and when Ann BAXTER married Samuel PHILPOT for siblings named BAXTER to have been born.
2. Samuel PHILPOT was named as James' father by the parson in the PR. Then 8 years later Ann married Samuel PHILPOT. This indicates to me they had an ongoing relationship during the intervening years.
3. After the 1799 marriage, Ann had 4 children in the next 9 years. Meaning that both she and Samuel were fertile.
4. If the ongoing relationship mentioned in (2) was physical, then you would expect the stork to have visited.
5. I note that Samuel and Ann were buried by the Independent Congregationalists. It is possible that for religious reasons, an earlier marriage between Ann and Samuel was NOT recorded in the CofE church records, and/or births to Ann and Samuel after James and before an 'official CofE' marriage were also not reported to the CofE parson.
Please do note that (5) is pure speculation, made to give suggestions on where to look.
Leaving aside that speculation - as your Mary BAXTER was older than James, but Ann would have been about 20 when Mary was born, so could have been her mother. Are you sure the Chr you have is the right one for the bride in the marriage witnessed by James and Pheobe? If yes, then she is not the illegitimate d of Ann. She could be Ann's sister? I do not have Ann's birth or parents.
Ann and Samuel are my 5GGP, with James the convict being my 4GGF.
BTW I have a DNA test on Ancestry which has been uploaded on other sites. It is a few years since I played around with DNA, but if you have also tested I will be glad to work with you on results.
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Hi Shirley,
Thank you for you very helpful and detailed post.
I am sending you a PM.
Pinetree
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Pinetrees, I think I just replied to you PM. The Own World Tree entry I mentioned is
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/MSLC-V9W
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Hi Shirley, unfortunately I did not get your PM. Pinetree