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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Rutland => Topic started by: iluleah on Thursday 21 September 17 17:01 BST (UK)
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Ann Gubings married William Clements 14 Jun 1762 in Manton Rutland, they lived in Manton and baptised their children there.
William was born/baptised in Manton in 1725 and died/buried in Manton in 1800.
Where was Ann baptised? Who were her parents? When and where did she die/was buried?
There are Gubings/Gubins in Manton, a William Gubbins married to Mary Lodge and having children baptised about the same time as William/Ann Clements, so potentially her brother.
There is a James and Jane Gubbins baptising a child in Manton in 1701, so if related more likely potential grandparents than parents
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A James Gubbins married Elizabeth Clement in Manton 5th November 1728.
I can't find any baptisms but a James Gubbins and Elizabeth had several children about 20 miles away in Swinstead, Lincolnshire, including Ann Gubbins (same spelling as the marriage register) baptised on 31st May 1741.
see - https://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=777018&iid=231302
Other children - Susan 1734, Mary 1737 and William 1743.
The register only starts in 1733, so there may have been others.
David
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Thank you David that sounds like a good option to investigate further to see if she is mine or not, looks hopeful.
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A bit late but may be of use.
There are other children of James & Elizabeth nee Clement - Henry 1730 Elizabeth 1729 and William 1743.
Interestingly there is a Lincolnshire Settlement Certificate for Swinstead for James his wife and children in 1729. Parish of Settlement is Manton!
I dont have any more details but the ref is Lincs Settlement Certs 13/5/11
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I live in Manton and have records of all of Anne Gubings children from Mary Jan 1763 through to Henry b May 1778.
I also have records of a James Gubbins married to a Jane whose eldest son was the James Gubbins married to Elizabeth Clement. James had three sisters, Susanna, Elizabeth and Alice and one brother Henry with all their births recorded in Manton.
Subsequently, I have a later Gubbins family with William married to a Mary Lodge 16th May 1768 and the records of their seven children.
If you require any further information, just let me know. Regards, John
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Thank you John,
I would be very interested in copies of PRs of all/any you may have.
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Hi
I do not have access to the Church Records any more, but have recorded information which was taken directly from the records by either myself or someone else who lived in the Village. Would this be sufficient for your research?
Regards, John
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Thank you it would certainly enable me to cross reference the information I already have, which in this case is mainly from transcribed BTs
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I noticed that a William Gubbins was buried in Manton in 1803, born 1743.
He married Mary Lodge on 18th May 1767 and one of the witnesses was James Gubbins.
The only William I can find who was born that year was the brother of Ann Gubbins, both of whom were baptised in Swinstead, Lincolnshire, the children of James and Elizabeth.
The first baptism in Swinstead was Elizabeth on 7th October 1729, the year after James Gubbins married Elizabeth Clement.
This seems to be the only family that fits but I am not sure how it can be proved.
David
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Elizabeth Gubbins was buried in Manton in on 25th December 1783.
It was written as Elizabeth Clement, which was crossed out, and then Gubbins.
James was buried on 27th September 1772.
David
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Thank you DCB.
You have the right family who moved from Lincolnshire to Rutland and thanks to the record of the Lincolnshire Settlement Certificate at Swinstead Lincs to Manton matched with all the dates/names I had researched up to then, it is always difficult ( as you say) to find enough real records and cross reference to prove people at that time in history ...........and I am sure we all like to 'make information fit' it certainly 'fits' much better the more real records I can find.
I noticed that a William Gubbins was buried in Manton in 1803, born 1743.
He married Mary Lodge on 18th May 1767 and one of the witnesses was James Gubbins.
Not proof however highly likely the witness was the James Gubbins who was father to William
Thank you for your latest post, I am not sure who Elizabeth Clements parents were or where she fits in as her daughter Ann married William Clements and as Manton is a small place 'potentially' they could be 'from' the same Clements family in Manton so maybe a cousin marriage between Wm Clements and Ann Gubbins, I just don't know which means more research and finding more real records which "JAC100" has transcribed directly from the PRs and hopefully will find the time to send me
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There was a William Clement, son of Henry and Jane, possibly Laxon, baptised in Manton on 12th February 1725.
They also had a daughter, Elizabeth, in 1816 but she would be too young to be the wife of James.
Another Elizabeth, daughter of George and Ann, was born on 5th August and baptised on 1st September 1700. She would just fit for the last baptism in 1743.
A Henry Clements, son of George and Ann, was baptised in Manton on 6th October 1688. He was probably Elizabeth's brother, which could make William her nephew, and cousin of Ann Gubbins.
I can't find a marriage for George and Ann.
David
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Yes that William Clement was born/bap in Manton 1725, Henry Clement married Jane Lackson ( Laxton) in Preston in 1714 ( no idea where Jane was born/baptised)
They also had a daughter, Elizabeth, in 1816 but she would be too young to be the wife of James
do you mean 1716?
I have 5 children baptisms for Henry and Jane but no Elizabeth
A Henry Clements, son of George and Ann, was baptised in Manton on 6th October 1688. He was probably Elizabeth's brother, which could make William her nephew, and cousin of Ann Gubbins.
As you say A Henry Clements, I have that in my notes but don't know if it is 'my' Henry( nor knew about his potential sibling Elizabeth). It 'seems' likely and yes it would make Wm/Ann first cousins
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I have checked the Manton baptisms for a William Gubbins around the 1743 period - but there are no records of any Gubins around that time.
The James Gubbins at the wedding of William and Mary Lodge, could have been the the James who married Elizabeth Clement b 1698, but more likely his son!
Mary Lodge was baptised 3rd April 1748 to Henry and Elizabeth, but there is no record of their marriage in Manton.
Hope this helps? John
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Hi Team
The Clements go back in Manton as far as Robert who died 17.09.1611.
His son William was b Feb 1599 and married an Elizabeth Heath
Their son Rowland was b 1633 and married a Mary?
Their son George b May 1661 married an Anne?
Their children were:
Henry b Oct 1688, Rowland b Mar 1689, George b June 1693 and Elizabeth b 3rd August 1700 who was married to James Gubbins (5th November 1729)
I believe it was this Henry who married a Jane? whose son William b Feb 1725 married Anne Gubbins 14th Jan 1762.
Hope this helps, John
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Thank you JAC100 for looking and getting back. As said before that time frame is very difficult to prove 'connections' as there are very few records to cross reference
I have checked the Manton baptisms for a William Gubbins around the 1743 period - but there are no records of any Gubins around that time.
William was baptised 4 April 1743 in Swinstead, Lincolnshire. The Lincolnshire Settlement Certificate ( Swinstead Lincs to Manton) is dated 1729, so there has to be something ( like other family) drawing them back there to have their children baptised
The James Gubbins at the wedding of William and Mary Lodge, could have been the the James who married Elizabeth Clement b 1698, but more likely his son!
Did James have a son called James?
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Hi Team
The Clements go back in Manton as far as Robert who died 17.09.1611.
His son William was b Feb 1599 and married an Elizabeth Heath
Their son Rowland was b 1633 and married a Mary?
Their son George b May 1661 married an Anne?
All above is new info so thank you I will use it as a framework to research
Their children were:
Henry b Oct 1688, I have 6 Oct 1688 Rowland b Mar 1689 I have 18 Mar 1689 and buried 17 Jun 1702, George b June 1693 I have 10 Jun 1693 and Elizabeth b 3rd August 1700 I have born 5 Aug 1700/ bap 1 Sept 1700 who was married to James Gubbins (5th November 1729) I have 5 Nov 1728 but an unsure it is 28yr old Elizabeth
I believe it was this Henry who married a Jane? whose son William b Feb 1725 married Anne Gubbins 14th Jan 1762.
Henry Clement m Jane Lackson in Preston 1714 and Wm is their 4th child who m Ann Gubbins in Manton 1762...so yes I agree with that one
Hope this helps, John
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May not be relevant but:
I was wondering what the link with Gubbins might be to Swinstead and found an inventory of a James Gubbins in Creeton, Counthorpe, just over a mile away, in 1669.
I can't find a marriage for the parents (James and Jane?) of James of Manton but there is a baptism of a James Gubbins, son of James, in Castle Bytham, 3.5 miles from Creeton and 15 from Manton, in 1665. His abode was given as Counthorpe
James senior was buried in Castle Bytham in 1668.
For the inventory see - https://www.lincstothepast.com/Inventory---Gubbins--James--1669--------/1105341.record?pt=S
James's baptism top left - https://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=728201&iid=119320
James's burial middle right - https://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=728201&iid=119328
David
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May not be relevant but:
I was wondering what the link with Gubbins might be to Swinstead and found an inventory of a James Gubbins in Creeton, Counthorpe, just over a mile away, in 1669.
I can't find a marriage for the parents (James and Jane?) of James of Manton but there is a baptism of a James Gubbins, son of James, in Castle Bytham, 3.5 miles from Creeton and 15 from Manton, in 1665. His abode was given as Counthorpe
James senior was buried in Castle Bytham in 1668.
For the inventory see - https://www.lincstothepast.com/Inventory---Gubbins--James--1669--------/1105341.record?pt=S
James's baptism top left - https://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=728201&iid=119320
James's burial middle right - https://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=728201&iid=119328
David.
Thank you for your finds
I am not convinced that James/Elizabeth had a son called James, well not until I can find a record around 1729-1745ish for a baptism .....and this new information would mean the people you have found are earlier, so 'potentially' their ancestors maybe parent/grandparents, which 'might' be their reason for the trip back to Swinstead to baptise their children when they lived in Manton ( I think we are working on the same logic)
James Gubbins I have no records for until 1728 marriage at Manton with Elizabeth Clements, working on logic of them having children baptised 1729-1743 it suggests they were young parents so born/baptised no earlier than 1707 not older parents, so the James ( of James father) baptism 'could be' his father (or even his grandfather) being baptised in 1665 and working on the family script of my ancestry add 20 yrs = marriage 1685 and then having children over the next 20-25 yrs ( as per the norm at that time in history)
But that is all maybe/guesstimate/possibility.
The only Elizabeth Clements I have baptised around that time is George/Ann Clements daughter bap in Manton in 1700 but I am not convinced it is her.
George had a brother called William ( rest of his siblings were girls) so I think I need to research Wm, see who he married and if he had an Elizabeth or of course his sisters had an illegitimate child called Elizabeth
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Iluleah
I have the following information on Gubbins from Manton
(Records from Church Registers)
James Gubbins married Jane (b’d June 1704 (when Henry was baptised)
Children: James b Aug 1698 (married to Elizabeth Clement 05.11.1729) (Children: Elizabeth b 1729, Henry b 1730 and William b 1743)
Susanna b Feb 1699
Elizabeth b 28.10.1701 (b’d Dec 1709)
Alice b May 1703
Henry b June 1704
Another generation:
William Gubbins (died Dec 1803) married to Mary Lodge (died June 1791) at Manton 16.05.1768
(William later married a Mary Pine at Manton 08.12.1796
Children from first marriage: Mary b Sept 1767, died June 1771
Henry b Feb 1770, died Mar 1771
Mary b Dec 1771
James b Feb 1774
Elizabeth and Henry b Nov 1776
Thomas b Dec 1778, died May 1788
Elizabeth b Aug 1786
Other Gubbins information:
An Alice Gubbins daughter of a John Gubbins (labourer) b’d May 1703
An Anne Gubbings (from Manton) married a William Clement (from Manton) 14.01.1762
A James Gubbins died Sept 1772.
Regards, John
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James b Aug 1698 (married to Elizabeth Clement 05.11.1729)
So it looks more likely that Elizabeth Clements is the child of George/Ann bap 5 Aug 1700 and makes them 1st cousins which is a first one for my ancestry( although these two are not my direct line although both their parents are. Surprisingly on both my paternal and maternal lines remained in the same village and surrounding areas for centuries, so I thought I would find more on both lines, even though it seems they all married into each others families, so find I have extended family of all the 'surnames' in the village somewhere.
For years I had a gut instinct that the Gubbins came from Lincolnshire but couldn't find them, so it is nice to know my gut instinct turned out to be correct
Thank you for those I need time to absorb the information
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The burial for Elizabeth in 1709 states wife of James but might be a mistake.
An Elizabeth Gubbins (transcribed as Gibbins) married William Harby in Manton on 5th March 1728. For some reason, it was crossed out but they had a daughter, Susanna, baptised there on 22nd November 1730. I can't find anything on Susanna but there are possible burials for William Harby (1751) and Elizabeth (1742) in Stamford.
In Castle Bytham, there were four children for James and Alice.
Alice Goobens in 1660, Elizabeth Gubins 1663, James Gubbins 1665 and Henry Gubbins 1668.
James Goobenes married Alice Smith in Castle Bytham on 2nd June 1660.
An Alcea, wife of James Goobens was buried in Castle Bytham on 21st April 1659.
An Alice Gubbins (transcribed Gabbins) married John Town in Swinstead on 13th May 1740.
David
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Hi David
Elizabeth Gubbins was buried 13th Dec 1709, but there is no record of the parents. So not much help!
Regards, John
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The burial for Elizabeth in 1709 states wife of James but might be a mistake
I wonder is James Snr ( husbandman who died 1668) wife was called Elizabeth? I know they would 'normally' state widow of James
No, ignore that, he was married to Alice
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JAC100 & DCB
Just a quick thank you for all your help and finds ;D