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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: minniehaha on Saturday 23 September 17 02:56 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I am new to USA research and have no idea as to what is available. (I am not a subscriber to Ancestry or similar.)
I am looking for the marriage of two people from New Zealand which supposedly took place in either San Francisco or Sacramento between 1913 & 1916.
Elizabeth Clark(e) DOBBIE and Clement Charles FISH (or Charles Clement FISH).
Any help in tracking this down would be much appreciated.
Minniehaha.
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Try here:
http://www.sfgenealogy.com/sf/
And here:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/list/?page=1®ion=UNITED_STATES
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I couldn't help but take a peek at the newspapers (as I live in California). ;)
Erato recommended two great sites. Found on the sfgenealogy site is the marriage license announcement for Charles and Elizabeth:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01krs/
Sacramento Union, May 17, 1913
They apparently were "both of Sacramento".
There may be additional articles about either or both individuals.
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Possibly just a coincidence (since the initial is incorrect), but
Immigrant Passenger List
Sailing on board the Willochra from San Francisco, California to Sydney, NSW, arriving 21 July 1914
(Mr.) Chas Fish
(Mrs.) M(?) Fish
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You may already have this?
California Passenger and Crew List
Sailing on board the R M S Tahiti, sailing from Wellington, New Zealand, arriving San Francisco, California on 15 May, 1913
Elizabeth Dobbie, age 36, Single, race: Scotch, born Dunedin, NZ. 5'7". Fr complexion, brown hair, blue eyes
Charles Fish, age 53, Single, [cannot read occupation], race: English, born Kent, England. 5'9". Fr complexion, brown hair, blue eyes
For both - last permanent residence was Wellington, NZ. Final destination: San Francisco, California. Whether going to relative or friend: friend, Harry Miers?, Sacramento.
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I did not see Charles Fish listed in the Sacramento City Directories for the years 1913-1916.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~npmelton/sacindex.html#_Directories
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Erato, thank you for the website links. I looked but did not find anything about the marriage*. However last night before shutting down the computer, I had another look at familysearch and found the shipping manifest showing that Elizabeth Dobbie & Charles Fish arrived in San Francisco on 15.5.1913.
This morning brings your posts Lisa. You had also made the same discovery, thank you. [I think the occupation may read 'sign-writer'?]
And you found the newspaper article, thank you!
*Obviously Erato my searching skills are not up to scratch! ::)
Lisa are you able to provide the link for the voyage from California to Sydney, please?
Thank you both for your interest and help. Very much appreciated.
Minniehaha.
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I found the passenger list on one of the pay sites so unfortunately I cannot provide a link. :-\
I just noticed the passenger list from Victoria, BC to San Francisco, arriving May 15, 1913. That list is more legible, and yes it does look like Charles' occupation was signwriter.
They certainly worked quickly to obtain a marriage license, one day after arriving in the states. Perhaps things were pre-arranged? ???
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In case this helps with putting puzzle pieces together...
They were going to friend, Harry Miers, Sacramento. The address is difficult to read.
1913 Sacramento City Directory
Harry T Miers, woodwkr Meister & Sons h 914 1/2 F
Looking back at the passenger image, now I can see that Mr. Miers' address is indeed 914 1/2 F St. I still cannot read the first part of the address - it looks like E'd ola Aptmts.
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Same Harry T Miers?
Passenger list (from pay site)
Sierra sailed from Auckland, NZ arrived San Francisco, CA on 6 November 1906
Harry D Miers, age 26, married, Car Builder
Last residence: Willington, NZ
Final destination: San Francisco, Cal.
Race: English
Born: England
1910 Sutter, Sacramento, CA Census
Harry T Miers, age 30, born England, Car-finisher, railroad shop
His wife, Lilian and Dorothy Lancaster (boarder, age 3) were also living with him
1920 Brighton, Sacramento, CA Census
Harry Tomlinson Miers, age 39, immigrated 1906, born England, Farmer, Poultry Farm
Wife Lillian Josephine was living with him
Additional census information and possibly other documents may be found on the site Erato mentioned (familysearch)
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Hello Lisa,
You have been a great help in putting 'flesh on bones', thank you.
Using your information about the return journey from California per the Willochra I have found a Mr. Fish arriving in Sydney. But no mention of Mrs. Fish, nee Dobbie. ???
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/10796698?searchTerm=willochra&searchLimits=exactPhrase|||anyWords|||notWords|||requestHandler|||dateFrom=1914-07-01|||dateTo=1914-08-31|||sortby
Minniehaha.
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Did they remain in Sydney?
Do you have his death?
Jamjar
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Hello Jamjar,
I'm fairly certain that Mr. & Mrs. Fish returned to New Zealand around 1914/1915. Death registration printout details show "away from New Zealand for about two years" in relation to the marriage.
1926/2021 Fish Clement Charles 79Y
Minniehaha.
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Good oh, I thinking I'd have some NSW seeking to do.
Jamjar ;)
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...Using your information about the return journey from California per the Willochra I have found a Mr. Fish arriving in Sydney. But no mention of Mrs. Fish, nee Dobbie...
The passenger list image shows Seamen's Names and Names of Passengers. The passengers were shown as First Class, 2nd Class and 3rd Class. Within each category, the individuals were listed as Miss, Mrs. and Mr.
The Fish individuals sailed 3rd Class. There were two 3rd Class married women listed: S? Mills and M? Fish. S Mills is also not show in the newspaper, but perhaps she was not sailing to Sydney? I do not see a Mr. Mills, so perhaps she sailed on her own and disembarked prior to arriving in Sydney. Did Mrs. Fish also disembark prior to Sydney, or was her name inadvertently left out of the newspaper article? :-\
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Thank you for those details Lisa. Some more digging to do to see when Mr. & Mrs. Fish can be found back in New Zealand together. Said to have been absent for a period of about two years.
Minniehaha.