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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: HannahM on Sunday 24 September 17 03:20 BST (UK)

Title: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Jane McLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: HannahM on Sunday 24 September 17 03:20 BST (UK)
Hi All,

I am desperately trying to find sources (free might I add) that will allow me to reach further back from My Great-Great-Great-Grandparents:
William Brown b: 1886  d:1957
Mary Jane Brown (nee McLachlan) b: 1881 d:1962     Both buried in Clinton, South Island
Married 02/01/1912, and later divorced in 1955, Invercargill

I am aware they had 5 Children:
William Brown: b:03/03/1912 d:04/03/1912?
Hazel Christina Margaret Brown: b:1913 d:?
Allison Marion Myra Brown: b:02/05/1915 d:24/09/1989
Alexander Arthur Brown: b: 26/12/1916 d:01/02/1972
William Eion Brown: b:1917 d: ?

Also looking for the family of Alexander Arthur Browns Wife- Vera Edith Victoria Tippett

If anyone can provide missing details on the death dates, which will assist me in finding their headstones, along with Mary or Williams Parents or Siblings it would be gratefully appreciated

Thanks
Hannah
Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Ann MacLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: shanreagh on Sunday 24 September 17 03:32 BST (UK)
Just quickly advising that the marriage details in BDM have the spelling of Mary Ann's surname a little differently from yours

1912/1264    Mary Jane    McLachlan    William    Brown

Unfortunately to really cement the fact that someone is your ancestor at some stage you will need to purchase a copy of a certificate or two from Births Deaths and Marriages. We can advise here so that you have every chance of getting the correct certificate.  But nothing will get around the need to purchase a certificate or two along the way. 

Having said that a good record to get a photocopy of would be the marriage certificate and the reference is above.  Get a photocopy of the original records. This is because the details on a marriage certificate is from the parties themselves and unless they are deliberately trying to confuse will be more accurate than say death certificates where others have provided the details. 

There are several sites you could look at
Family Search
NZ BDM
Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Ann MacLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: shanreagh on Sunday 24 September 17 04:04 BST (UK)
1912/4312   Brown    William    Mary Jane   William

NB different first names for the mother.
Possible death
1912/533   Brown    William    17H

Solely on the basis that families often named children for the mothers or fathers parent/parents these births in 1886 MAY be your William's ie second child first girl has the name Margaret as one of the first names. 

1886/13748   Brown    William Alexander    Margaret   James Miller   
1886/15136   Brown    William    Margaret   NR
Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Ann MacLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: shanreagh on Sunday 24 September 17 04:08 BST (UK)
Do you know that William born 1886 was born in NZ?

Back to confirming the births etc of children
1913/24585   Brown    Hazel Christina Margaret    Mary Jane   William
1915/22072   Brown    Allison Marion Myra    Mary Jane   William
NB spelling of Allison
1917/13594   Brown    Alexander Arthur    Mary Jane   William   
Registered after the Christmas break?

I have found (on family search) the Will of William Brown, retired builder  who died in 1957. He appoints Mary Jane Brown as his executrix.

Childrens names from that will are
Myra Alison Marion Brown 
Arthur Alexander Brown
William Eoin Brown
Hazel Christina Margaret  Dorman
and Florence Mavis Mary McTaggart.

So another girl, six children in total?

Death of FMM McTaggart

1988/30564   McTaggart    Florence Mavis Mary    21 December 1923
Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Ann MacLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: HannahM on Sunday 24 September 17 07:08 BST (UK)
My spelling mistake, Unsure why I placed an extra A in Mary's surname

I have no further details on William and Mary, so I am unsure on where they were born.


Also looking for the details on Alexander Arthur Brown's Wife - (Vera Edith Victoria (Tippett) Brown)s Parents
Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Ann MacLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: Lucy2 on Sunday 24 September 17 07:12 BST (UK)
Curious as to why this is query is marked as "URGENT"   ???

   ~  Lu     ;D
Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Ann MacLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: hurworth on Sunday 24 September 17 07:22 BST (UK)
William is buried with Mary Jane Brown, not Mary Ann Brown.
Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Ann MacLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: HannahM on Sunday 24 September 17 07:33 BST (UK)
Hi Lu,

I've marked it as urgent as I would love to get as much information in the next 12 days so I can present it to my grandfather for his 70th- as he knows very little about his extended family
Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Ann MacLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: Lucy2 on Sunday 24 September 17 07:40 BST (UK)
Are you aware that Alexander Arthur BROWN and his wife Vera Edith V. BROWN were divorced in 1956 ?   She remarried in that same year.

NZ Death

2010 - WALKER - Vera Edith Victoria - date of birth = 7 October 1918*

[*  Her birth registration (if a New Zealand birth) will not appear on NZ BDM online index until October next year.   ]

    ~  Lu

Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Jane McLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: Lucy2 on Sunday 24 September 17 07:55 BST (UK)
... lovely idea as a birthday gift, Hannah ... but it's difficult to confirm accuracy without purchasing at least a few BDM records (... as I think has already been mentioned) .  ;)

You can purchase a "Printout" of a BD or M event ... and this can be sent fairly quickly to you via email.

Just a suggestion   ;D ... the Marriage record (Printout) for William BROWN and Mary Jane McLACHLAN - 1912 - would give you a good deal of additional information (all of it provided by the bride and groom).   Provision was made at that time (1912) for the record to include > birth places of the parties who were marrying / the names of each of their mothers and fathers / the occupations of their fathers / the maiden surnames of their mothers.
Also ... the witnesses to the marriage may well have been family members ... and from that information, you may find a whole lot more. 

    ~  Lu   
Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Jane McLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: spades on Sunday 24 September 17 08:04 BST (UK)
Hi HannahM,

If you have a deadline to acquire definitive information about William BROWN and Mary MCLACHLAN I suggest that you follow Shanreagh's advice and order a printout (i.e. a copy of the original document) of the 1912 marriage certificate from NZ BDM.

Ditto for the marriage of Vera Edith Victoria TIPPETT.

The certificate should provide the names and occupations of their parents as well as the birthplaces and ages of both parties. For a list of what should appear in a post-1880 marriage certificate see;
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=259108.0

NZ BDM can email the document to you but as this can take ten working days you should contact them immediately to achieve your deadline. Make sure you request a printout, otherwise you will receive only a transcription record.
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/

Spades
Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Jane McLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: spades on Sunday 24 September 17 08:04 BST (UK)
Snap, Lucy2. :D
Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Jane McLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: Lucy2 on Sunday 24 September 17 08:16 BST (UK)
 ;D
Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Jane McLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: Lucy2 on Sunday 24 September 17 08:24 BST (UK)

Ditto for the marriage of Vera Edith Victoria TIPPETT.

Spades

Mmm ... the first marriage of Vera E.V. TIPPETT  (to A.A. BROWN) occurred in the 1940's, and so it will not be classed as "an Historical record".   You would need to look at the details for purchasing non-historical BDM records at this link >>
https://www.bdmonline.dia.govt.nz/NonHistoricRecords

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Jane McLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: Lucy2 on Sunday 24 September 17 08:48 BST (UK)

William Brown b: 1886  d:1957
Mary Jane Brown (nee McLachlan) b: 1881 d:1962     Both buried in Clinton, South Island
Married 02/01/1912, and later divorced in 1955, Invercargill

Hi Hannah

Are you sure this couple divorced ??   
It seems you have probably mixed up the divorce of their son Alexander Arthur BROWN (from Vera Edith V.) in which proceedings began in 1955 with the Decree Absolute handed down in 1956. ??

Here is a link to the Probate record of William BROWN 1957.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C915-J7KV-L?i=757&cc=1865481

You will see that Probate was granted in 1957 to ("his wife") Mary Jane BROWN, widow of Clinton,
she being the same person (wife) as mentioned in his will dated 1951.

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Jane McLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: Lucy2 on Sunday 24 September 17 08:52 BST (UK)
There was also a Probate file for Mary Jane BROWN, although unfortunately it doesn't give a lot of useful family information.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSMY-2PZ9?i=253&cc=1865481

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Jane McLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: Lucy2 on Sunday 24 September 17 10:45 BST (UK)
The following is information for the family of your Mary Jane McLACHLAN (b.c. 1881 - wife of William BROWN ).

If you go to NZ BDM online today (the site is not currently responding to searches probably because information is being uploaded - Sunday evening - quiet time   ;D) you will be able to find the birth of Mary Jane McLACHLAN registered 1881, and confirm the names of her parents.
[Her birth does show up in the NZ Birth Index (available at ancestry.com) ... registered 1881 at Popotunoa.  This listing though does not give names of parents so you have to check for those at NZ BDM (online). ]

Also registered at Popotunoa were other McLACHLAN children (1878 thru to 1882) and by following two of them, I was able to locate what I thought were also the parents of Mary Jane.

    ~  Lu
 

Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Jane McLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: Lucy2 on Sunday 24 September 17 10:57 BST (UK)
The following is the Probate record for a Donald Alexander McLACHLAN of Clinton, Builder, ... who most certainly is the father of Mary Jane BROWN.    :D

See # 2. of his Will ... (reference to) my daughter Mary Jane, wife of William BROWN of Clinton, Builder.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9PS-VLMJ?i=402&cc=1865481

   ~  Lu

Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Jane McLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: Lucy2 on Sunday 24 September 17 11:16 BST (UK)
Hannah ... according to records for Clinton Cemetery, Christina Bain MOFFAT (d. 1923) was the wife of Donald Alex McLACHLAN (d. 1930).

So, Christina Bain MOFFAT, appears to have been the mother of Mary Jane McLACHLAN (w/o William BROWN)..

[There is another MOFFAT-McLACHLAN "combination" buried in an adjacent plot at Clinton cemetery.
Appears it might be Christina's sister - who had married Donald's brother ???  Will check further.]

  ~  Lu
Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Jane McLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: Lucy2 on Sunday 24 September 17 11:23 BST (UK)

[There is another MOFFAT-McLACHLAN "combination" buried in an adjacent plot at Clinton cemetery.
Appears it might be Christina's sister - who had married Donald's brother ???  Will check further.]


  ~  Lu

... oops ... sorry, got my information mixed up re:  "another MOFFAT-McLACHLAN" :  Please just ignore above ... I need to do some further searching on this other burial at Clinton Cemetery.

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Jane McLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: Lucy2 on Sunday 24 September 17 12:44 BST (UK)
Hannah ... this is the NZ marriage of Mary Jane McLACHLAN's parents :

Donald MacLACHLAN* -- Christina Bain MOFFAT -- 1877
Marriage at Knox Presbyterian Church, Dunedin on 20 August 1877 :


[ * spelling "MacLACHLAN" is given on the NZSG marriages CD.   The Otago Presbyterian Marriage index has surname as "McLACHLAN. ]

   ~  Lu

Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Jane McLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: Lucy2 on Sunday 24 September 17 12:57 BST (UK)
Okay ... so this is clarification of the burial of a husband and wife, in the plot alongside of that of Christina Bain MOFFAT and her husband, Donald Alex. McLACHLAN > Block 7 - Plot 8 - Clinton Cemetery.

Block 7 - Plot 7  [Clinton Cemetery ]

Marion CAIRNS wife of John MOFFAT died 11 July 1907 - 78 years.
Also, John MOFFAT - died 28 August 1908 - 82 years.


And Marion and John MOFFAT are the parents of Christina Bain MOFFAT (McLACHLAN).   See following posts.
[Note the use of 'maiden surnames' of these women in these headstone records.  Notices of their deaths however, appear under their 'married surnames' . ]

   ~ Lu

Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Jane McLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: Lucy2 on Sunday 24 September 17 13:01 BST (UK)
This is the link to the very interesting Will (Probate file) of John MOFFAT.

Strangely (or not) cannot see a mention of daughter Christina in his Will ???

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSHB-2HYW?i=632&cc=1865481

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Jane McLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: Lucy2 on Sunday 24 September 17 13:08 BST (UK)
OBITUARY for  -  Mr John MOFFAT of Clinton :

You'll find this most helpful, I'm sure.    ;)

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CL19080828.2.21

And, happily ... all his children "accounted for" ... and amongst the names of his nine daughters,
Mrs D. A. McLACHLAN of Clinton.

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Jane McLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: Lucy2 on Sunday 24 September 17 13:10 BST (UK)
FindMyPast (FindMyPast website) has the following birth :

MOFFAT - Christina
Birth Year : - 1853
West Linton, Peebles, Scotland

Father :  John MOFFAT
Mother:  Marion CAIRNS
Address:  Linton, Peebleshire, Scotland
Place:   West Linton


   ~ Lu
Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Jane McLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: Lucy2 on Sunday 24 September 17 13:19 BST (UK)
Death Notice for Marion CAIRNS ... under surname "MOFFAT" :

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT19070713.2.44

[Hadn't noticed earlier, but the undertaker appears to be her son-in-law ... D. A. McLACHLAN.
As a "builder" though, with the making of coffins, the "undertaking" side of things, often went together.]

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Jane McLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: Lucy2 on Sunday 24 September 17 20:47 BST (UK)
NZ BDM site up and running again, albeit very sluggishly.

Birth :

1881 - McLACHLAN - Mary Jane
Parents :   Christianna Bane *  and Donald


*  The spelling of mother's name as recorded on her headstone would likely be correct.

   ~   Lu
Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Jane McLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: hurworth on Sunday 24 September 17 22:57 BST (UK)
Vera Walker nee Tippett is recorded on the Invercargill Cemetery Search.

http://icc.govt.nz/cemeteries/cemetery-search/

Newspapers around that date may have some information.
Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Jane McLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: Janette on Sunday 24 September 17 23:41 BST (UK)
 WALKER, Vera Edith Victoria.

Died 10 August 2010. Age 91y

Published Notices (3)
 Southland Times    11 Aug 2010
Southland Times    12 Aug 2010
Southland Times    13 Aug 2010

The funeral director may be able to put you in touch with her family,their email is at the bottom of the page,don't use the form I have found FD's never reply to them

https://www.mwfunerals.co.nz/contact-us

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Jane McLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: shanreagh on Monday 25 September 17 00:36 BST (UK)
Okay ... so this is clarification of the burial of a husband and wife, in the plot alongside of that of Christina Bain MOFFAT and her husband, Donald Alex. McLACHLAN > Block 7 - Plot 8 - Clinton Cemetery.

Block 7 - Plot 7  [Clinton Cemetery ]

Marion CAIRNS wife of John MOFFAT died 11 July 1907 - 78 years.
Also, John MOFFAT - died 28 August 1908 - 82 years.


And Marion and John MOFFAT are the parents of Christina Bain MOFFAT (McLACHLAN).   See following posts.
[Note the use of 'maiden surnames' of these women in these headstone records.  Notices of their deaths however, appear under their 'married surnames' . ]

   ~ Lu

And as a 'sort of' confirmation/checking device see the names of the children of the family in OP's initial post.  Good old naming patterns still persisting in children born in another country whose ancestors are Scots.   These children have 'family' names....eg Marion, Christina. Retention of maiden surnames is also a persistent Scottish genealogical trait. 
Title: Re: URGENT: William Brown married: Mary Jane McLachlan, Otago-New Zealand 1800's
Post by: HannahM on Wednesday 04 October 17 10:57 BST (UK)
Hi all,

Just like to say a huge thank you for all the information and advice you have provided me. Although there are a few names missing I'm feeling confident in passing my findings over to my granddad this weekend- couldn't of done it without your help  :D