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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Durham => England => Durham Lookup Requests => Topic started by: patsy14 on Sunday 24 September 17 13:57 BST (UK)
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If anyone is going to look up Hartlepool marriages, I would be so grateful if you could check on a marriage for me.
Mary WATERS and Stephen WHELPDALE, married 1866 (registered Oct-Nov-Dec quarter), in Hartlepool. Stephen's father was John Whelpdale, Mary's father is unknown to me. It is his name that I am especially interested in.
Thank you very much in advance :)
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Just to point out that there are 12 civil parishes within the Hartlepool Registration District in 1866 - so a large number of possible venues for the marriage. :o
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If it was a Register Office wedding then those registers are not available to be searched; a certificate has to be bought.
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Oh dear! 12 civil parishes to choose from! I'll try to see if I can narrow the search down to which civil parish it is.
Thank you so much for your helpful comments!
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The code for this marriage on the Tees Valley Indexes is H999. http://www.teesvalley-indexes.co.uk/search_records.php?step=spouse&ref=H-999-5-0-18
According to this list here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=521753.msg2342958#msg2342958 this suggests that it took place at one of several Methodist churches, at Brunswick Street Chapel, or at a Register Office.
It looks like you are going to have to buy the certificate.
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Hi
To lookup a marriage in parish records - you have to know which church it took place in. As you can see from earlier replies - without that info nobody would know where to search
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/hartlepool.html
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To lookup a marriage in parish records -
Hi Carole, as you can see from my previous reply it seems rather unlikely that it took place in a Parish Church anyway, so even more difficult :)
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Thank you JenB for explaining the code used by the Tees Valley Indexes.
I have the husband (Stephen Whelpdale) living in the district of Stranton in the 1861 census but his wife (Mary Waters) was a servant in Gateshead in 1861. So, I doubt this is much help.
I guess I'll have to buy the certificate. Thanks everyone once again!
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Did your Stephen Whelpdale die in 1906 aged 66? There is a report of the inquest held in Sunderland in the Northern Daily Mail Wednesday 13 June 1906 (on FindMyPast). He lived at 7 Tees Street and was a labourer, Mary is the widow.
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tillypeg, Yes, that is indeed my Stephen Whelpdale! I have a annual subscription with Ancestry right now but will keep this report in mind to look up whenever I can also afford a month's subscription with FindMyPast. Thank you very much!
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I have never heard the surname Whelpdale before and thought I would try a search of the newspapers, there may be more to find of course.
Here's my transcription of the article:
SAD STORY AT A SUNDERLAND INQUEST
At Sunderland yesterday an inquest was held touching the death of Stephen Whelpdale (66), a labourer, of 7 Tees Street. Mary Whelpdale, the widow, said that on Saturday night at 10.45 her husband was brought home by two men. He was very drunk. He had to be carried upstairs and was there laid on the hearthrug before the fire, his necktie and shirt-neck being loosened. The witness went to bed in an adjoining room. At three o’clock on Sunday morning she got up to look at the deceased and as he was snoring and apparently all right she went back to bed. At twenty minutes to nine she found him dead. It was not the first time that he had lain on the mat all night. The reason she did not wake him at three o’clock was because he was so quarrelsome if disturbed in his sleep when in drink. Dr Maurice Jacobs said the indications were that death was due to suffocation following intoxication. The jury returned a verdict in accordance with the medical testimony.
A sad tale indeed. My 3xgt grandfather William Dryden fell off Whitby pier whilst intoxicated and sadly didn't live to tell the tale. There's a moral there somewhere......
Best wishes,
Tillypeg
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Interesting to see what the marriage certificate reveals - at the moment, to me at least, it looks like Mary Waters was the daughter of Mark Waters and Diana Hunter who married 21/12/1836 Stockton on Tees.
On the census' none of their children appear to have been born in Stockton on Tees itself, although Diana (or Dinah as she appears on census) was. Their children born in different districts in Durham and included a Mary bc.1845. I note that Stephen Whelpdale and Mary named one of their own children Dinah too. I can see the birth entries for their children on GRO Index confirming mmn as Hunter but the only birth entry missing is for daughter Mary bc.1845 (said to have been born on 1851 census at Wreckington(Wrekenton).
Annette
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tillypeg - Thank you so very much for putting the transcription for me!!! Stephen and Mary are my paternal great-grandparents. How very sad to learn that he died from suffocation following intoxication :-( I am sorry to hear of your William Dryden also! I totally agree - there is a moral there somewhere...Thank you again very much!
Best wishes to you also, Patsy
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Annette - As I mentioned in my previous post to tillypeg, Stephen and Mary are my paternal great-grandparents. I have also found most of the same information you had mentioned. The couple had 12 children from what I have found, with one daughter named Dinah/Diana but, interestingly, none of the boys were named Mark. I have also found birth or baptisms for all the children.
In the census forms of 1871, 1881 and 1891 Mary lists her place of birth as Stockton. I haven't been able to find her yet on the 1901 and 1911 census forms. But, there is no Mary Waters born in Stockton around 1845. I found what I believe to be the same Mary in the 1851 census (place of birth Wreckington, Durham) and in 1861 (place of birth Lamesley, Durham). I am not 100% certain though.
This is why I was hoping that I could confirm 100% that her father was Mark Waters through the marriage certificate. I guess it is a certificate worth investing in!
Thank you again very much!
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In case you dont have Census access.
1841 Census
Kelloe, Durham
Mark Waters, 25, Coal Miner
Diana Waters, 20
Elizabeth Waters, 3
Ann Waters, 1
All born in County
1851 Mark is away from Home;
Dinah Wardle Waters 31
Ann Waters 10
Dinah Waters 8
Mary Waters 6
William Waters 4
Margaret Waters 1
1861 they are under WATTERS, in Northumberland;
Mark Watters 45 born Gateshead
Dinah Watters 41 born Stickton
William Watters 14
Margaret Watters 11
Sarah Watters 10
Eleanor Watters 1
Ann Button 20
Dinah Button 6/12
MARK Waters Baptised 5 Nov 1815, St Mary, Gateshead
Parents WILLIAM/ELIZABETH
Fathers Occp Pitman
(FreeREG)
William WATERS married Elizabeth LEIGHTON, 29 Oct 1814 same Church
(FreeREG)
I cant find anymore Children in Gateshead for William/Elizabeth so they may have moved.
Mark remaried 1874 to Hannah KIRTLEY
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Although I cant find a Baptism for Diana/Dinah this looks like it may be her Parents Marriage;
Benjamin HUNTER to Ann WARDELL 30 April 1815, Stockton Parish, Durham
(Familysearch.Org)
And yes the Marriage Cert of Mary is a good idea to confirm her Fathers name/occp.
Trish :)
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trish1120 - Thank you very much for the census information that you copied for me. It does match what I have found so far. Also for the additional baptism and marriage info.
I did find a baptism for Dinah/Diana on 1 June 1821 at St. Thomas Church in Stockton and it confirms her parents' names to be Benjamin Hunter and Ann Wardell.
My problem is the elusive Mary Waters - I can't find her birth or baptism anywhere. Through the marriage certificate, I can be 100% certain that Mark Waters is indeed her father and see what age she has declared. It would be a shame if all my work on Mark Waters and Dinah/Diana Hunter is for nothing and not in fact her family...although I am quite certain it is.
Thank you very much once again!
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If you don't have this information you can just include it in your records:
Stephen Whelpdale, 66, boilermaker, buried 12 Jun 1906 Bishopwearmouth Cemetery.
What if the Elizabeth Waters, 1st daughter of Mark and Dinah, baptised Stockton St. Thomas, 6 Mar 1838 abode Stockton was called Mary later? I have seen that happen. Diana was the 3rd daughter and Ann was in between.
The baptism also stated that Mark was a "printer" but I have a record where the occupation was Printer but he signed with an X. What printer couldn't write his own name?--the parish record had pitman, which was more like it.
Janis
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From Durham Records Online free index - not many of them
Year ▲
ForenameSurname BirthYearBirthplace (census) orAbode (parish recs)
Baptisms Easington 1842 Stephen Whelpdale Hutton Henry
Add to Cart (£1.50)
1851 Census Easington 1851 Stephen Whelpdale abt 1843 County Durham
Add to Cart (£1.50)
Cemetery Registers Hartlepool 1863 Stephen Whelpdale abt 1863 California, Hartlepool
Add to Cart (£1.50)
Cemetery Registers Sunderland 1906 Stephen Whelpdale abt 1840 7 Tees Street
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Thank you very much 2zpool and barryd for your help! I have found entries for all of the Waters children in the GRO birth index except for Elizabeth and my elusive Mary. There were 7 daughters and only 1 son.
I was able to find the baptism for Elizabeth and her in the 1841 census. Then she disappears and I couldn't find a death either. She must be the only person in Ancestry that doesn't have a single hint available! I also found it interesting that on Elizabeth's baptism, her father is listed as "printer" (1838) but he is a pitman (coal miner) on later census returns. Transcription mistake perhaps?
I had thought of Elizabeth becoming "Mary" but there seem to be about 7 years difference in the dates of birth given on the various census returns. I can follow all of the other daughters and none of them seem to be my Mary. I do have (in another branch) an "Edward" who later became "John E." and then just "John"! Hard to trace some people!
Thank you again very much!
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When is Mary suppose to have been born? Or what years are you looking?
Janis
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Hi Janis,
From the 1871, 1881 and 1891 (of which I am 100% certain that it is my Mary Waters), she says that she was born in Stockton around 1845.
From the 1851 census, (which I believe is the same Mary), she says she was born in Wreckington, Durham around 1845. From the 1861 census, (again, which is believe is the same Mary), she says she was born in Lamesley, Durham around 1843. It appears that Wreckington, Lamesley and Stockton are all very close to each other.
In the GRO index, I started in Sept 1837 and went year by year up until 1850 looking for all the children with Hunter as the mother's maiden name. All the siblings show up except for Elizabeth and Mary.
Joan
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Hi Janis,
From the 1871, 1881 and 1891 (of which I am 100% certain that it is my Mary Waters), she says that she was born in Stockton around 1845.
From the 1851 census, (which I believe is the same Mary), she says she was born in Wreckington, Durham around 1845. From the 1861 census, (again, which is believe is the same Mary), she says she was born in Lamesley, Durham around 1843.
A Mary Waters was baptised in Lamesley on 27 Nov 1842, the daughter of James (a Mason) and Ann. She is with them in Lamesley in 1851 and is therefore probably the servant in Gateshead in 1861.
It appears that Wreckington, Lamesley and Stockton are all very close to each other.
I'm from Stockton and I wouldn't consider either of these places to be 'close'.
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Hi Janis,
From the 1871, 1881 and 1891 (of which I am 100% certain that it is my Mary Waters), she says that she was born in Stockton around 1845.
From the 1851 census, (which I believe is the same Mary), she says she was born in Wreckington, Durham around 1845. From the 1861 census, (again, which is believe is the same Mary), she says she was born in Lamesley, Durham around 1843.
A Mary Waters was baptised in Lamesley on 27 Nov 1842, the daughter of James (a Mason) and Ann. She is with them in Lamesley in 1851 and is therefore probably the servant in Gateshead in 1861.
It appears that Wreckington, Lamesley and Stockton are all very close to each other.
I'm from Stockton and I wouldn't consider either of these places to be 'close'.
I agree with jomot. Lamesley and Wreckenton are only a couple of miles apart, but they are both a good thirty or so miles from Stockton.
I don't think its safe to assume that a person who says she is from Stockton is the same as one who says she is from Lamesley or Wreckenton
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I realise that the age is slightly out, but have you considered the Mary Waters aged 12 living in Stockton in 1861 with mother Bridget & siblings James (23) and Joseph (7).
This Mary was born Sunderland in 1848, mmn Lannan, and following her brother James it seems he later had a son, also James, born Hartlepool Jul-Sep 1866 (mmn Barron).
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Thank you very much Jomot and JenB for your replies. I will definitely follow up on the other Mary Waters that you suggested and see if they can tie in to my tree better than the one that I am currently following.