RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Mayo => Topic started by: amac1210 on Monday 25 September 17 00:58 BST (UK)
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Hello All,
I have been investigating ancestors from Belmullet in Co. Mayo. There are a lot of interesting leads that are appearing. I know that my G-G Grandfather lived in a place called Mingmore/Muingmore in Belmullet with his wife Annie Kelly (maiden name Carey) and children. He died in 1911, according to records and would have been born around 1838 if the age on his death certificate is accurate. I'm looking to trace his parents, and find out what siblings he may have had.
Any ideas?
Best,
Tony
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Related thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=779469.msg6336174#msg6336174
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Anthony was old enough for a pension. There may have been a census search form to prove his age so he could apply for an old-age pension. This would have been a search of 1841 or 1851 census, both of which were later destroyed. The form may have place of birth or childhood residence and parents' names, if he knew this information. Some forms survived.
Check if there are parish registers dating from time of his birth. Do you know his religious affiliation? Even if you don't find his baptism, you may find other possible family members. R.C. baptism registers should have godparents, who may have been relatives, friends or neighbours.
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Interesting, I wonder how we could find pension details?
Where can I find these Parish registers? I managed to find one for other Irish ancestors, that isn't recorded on Irish Genealogy's main website. It seems a lot of it comes down to luck with what you find online. I know he would have been born in Co. Mayo, likely Belmullet. But the name of the Roman Catholic Parish (he was R.C.) could be entirely different.
Thanks,
Tony
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LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Mayo/Glencastle/Muingmore/1579418/) to 1901 census when aged 62
LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Glencastle/Muingmore/707300/) to 1911 census when aged 73
LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1911/05393/4505613.pdf) to death certificate - May 12 1911
In 1911 the couple stated that they were married for 42 years implying c1869
there is a church marraige on April 25 1869 LINK (http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634607#page/25/mode/1up) that unfortunately does not name their parents and there doesn't immediately seem to be a civil record.
Known children are:
1 1870 Daniel LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03342/2225074.pdf) #385
2 1872 Patrick LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1872/03256/2193170.pdf) #38
3 1874 Margaret LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1874/03133/2148649.pdf) #116
4 1876 Hugh LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1877/03018/2105898.pdf) #39
5 1879 Anthony (1) LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1879/02892/2059555.pdf) #351
6 1881 Mary bap. Aug 07 1881 no obvious civil record
7 1883 Anthony (2) bap. Aug 26 1883 no obvious civil record
8 1886 Bridget bap. Oct 03 1886 no obvious civil record
9 1889 Rose LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1889/02470/1917116.pdf) #334
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Quote from other topic - to keep together
[So what do you think about finding Hugh Carey and Sarah Corrigan? Assuming they were from Co. Mayo, how would we go about finding them? From the 1901 and 1911 censuses Ann Carey would have been born c. 1841 which is quite a long time ago in Irish records. It would also appear from the 1901 census that neither Hugh nor Sarah was still alive. I am wondering if there is a Baptismal register somewhere that could help us here?]
A Mary CAREY of Mingmore married Micheal RUDDY of Granguil on Jan 24 1875
As her father is named as Hugh, a farmer and living there is a possibility that this is Anne's sister and I would keep in mind
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See the page Irish Pension Records - Census Search Forms on Irish Genealogy Toolkit website for a brief explanation of introduction of old-age pensions in 1909. http://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com
Claimants had to provide parents' names and residence March 1841/ 51.
National Library of Ireland Parish Registers website has a map of parishes. If you know the location of Belmullet you will be able to find the name of the parish. Then you can check which years registers cover. http://registers.nli.ie/about
Edit: Looking at the map, the parish is Belmullet. I suggest you investigate the 4 adjacent parishes as well.
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Thanks for all that information!
I wasn't aware there were two children named Anthony. I knew there was one born in 1879 but I didn't know there was another born in 1883. This raises the question about what happened to the elder Anthony? Did he die before 1883, and have a younger brother named after him? I know that one of the brothers died in Glasgow in 1969. His Granddaughter says that he died aged 85 which would seem to place him as the Anthony born in 1883. As to Bridget and Mary many thanks for the Baptismal information - where did you find this? It is strange there are no civil records for them. I know Bridget died around 1956 in Edinburgh unmarried but Mary's fate is unknown. Danniel Kelly is also a strange case - there is no trace of him after his birth. Though he was mentioned by relations, which would indicate he lived until adulthood.
The Mary Carey connection sounds promising. I'll need to look into this. If Hugh was still alive in 1875, I wonder if we can find a record giving his death?
There is one final mystery in all this. You'll notice the 1911 census includes grandchildren:
Donaghue Darby 13 Male Grand Son Roman Catholic
Bingham Denis 6 Male Grand Son Roman Catholic
Barrett Rose 5 Female Grand Daughter Roman Catholic
These are all strange surnames, since none of the Kelly sisters (Mary, Bridget and Margaret) were married to these people. I was told that it was likely out of wedlock. The Denis Bingham connection is very telling - Anthony Kelly Jnr. was working for an elder Denis Bingham and his father Arthur Shane Bingham as a servant. Long story, but I suspect the Denis Bingham on this census is one who was born out of wedlock to the elder Denis. So who was the mother? And who on Earth is Darby Donaghue? I know there was an elder Darby in Belmullet but there is simply no obvious trace of who the mother is. As to Rose Barrett, Margaret Kelly died giving birth to her on 17 April 1905 so this one is cleared up a little. But no info on the father here.
Thanks,
Tony
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(1) I would expect that the first Anthony died as an infant - some of the Belmullet civil records are still not on line to view
(2) The baptismal information is transcribed on rootsireland.com
(3) I suspect Denis BINGHAM was born Denis KELLY LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1904/01812/1709513.pdf) #43 on Jul 28 1904 to Maria KELLY
(4) I don't see a similar birth for Darby (which can be Dermot/Diarmuid) Donaghue around 1897
The baptismal records are not on line this late but could be requested from the church which may be helpful
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Binghams..
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=768883.0
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The name Darby...
http://www.whatsinaname.net/php/search.php?action=search2&search_name=Darby
Annie
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If you haven't already I would contact the local church re baptisms of Denis BINGHAM, Darby DONAGHUE and Rose BARRETT - sometimes the priest would write a remark about parentage especially if the child was to use the name
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Information
Anthony Kelly b 1879 died aged 2 months Convultions 24hrs informant Anthony Kelly Muingmore.
Margaret Kelly gave birth to Twins on 17 April 1905 Rose and John, John died 26 May 1905 aged 6 weeks, Bronchitis informant Anthony Kelly Muingmore.
The birth of Rose Kelly in 1889 record stated Daniel Kelly present at birth, this will be the informant no relationship noted but could be her brother Daniel born 1870.
Marriage of Mary Carey and Michael Ruddy in 1875 witness Rose Kelly. Cant locate death for a Hugh Carey father of Mary.
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Hello Owen,
Many thanks, that is very helpful!
Where did you find wee Anthony's death record? Sounds pretty tragic, but sadly not uncommon either.
I noticed Margaret Kelly's information earlier on. Her daughter Rose is listed as Rose Barrett on the 1911 census, living with Grandparents. Margaret died not long after giving birth from complications.
I'm assuming that is the same Daniel Kelly, though he disappears after this. Maybe he moved to Scotland.
The Mary Carey connection sounds certain enough, however, since it is in 1875 this Rose Kelly is probably another relative? I'm now speculating the sister or the mother of Anthony Kelly Snr. The families likely knew one another already at that point. This also gives a namesake potentially for my Great-Grandmother Rose Kelly/Shevlin born 1889 died 1949.
Thanks,
Tony
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Hi,
I found 1901 and 1911 census records for a Rose Kelly who was the wife of a Michael Kelly. They had a son Anthony Kelly themselves, which looks promising. Though this Rose would be no blood relation of mine, but possibly a sister-in-law of Anthony Kelly who was married to Ann Carey. It's all speculation. I found Rose's death record in 1932, when she died at the age of 90 years. Looking up Michael Kelly's death at the moment. But I think we'll need to find their own marriage to get more details that can solve this one. There is a marriage record from 1868 online, but irritatingly it can't be accessed.
I did notice a death for a Hugh Carey in Belmullet, in the date of 1870. He died aged 30, which means he'd have been born in 1840 and could well be a son of Hugh Carey and Sarah Corrigan. Again it is very irritating, the record can't be accessed.
As to Sarah Corrigan, there is another promising record here. There is an 1881 death for Sarah Carey, aged 65 which works out with the dates I have. The problem is again the record is inaccessible online.
Cheers,
Tony
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I use Roots Ireland.ie its a subscription site.
This is where I found details of baby Anthony Kelly.
The record for Sarah Carey 27-12-1880 aged 65yrs
Muingmore listed as a widow, occupation Farmers Wife. Debility 3months.
Informant Anthony Kelly Muingmore
Noted on record, Marital Status and Occupation Differ but are direct from Register.
This looks like the correct person, usually if the dec'd is a Widow it doesn't show an occupation.
The Death in 1932 of Rose Kelly she is from Gorthiliha, the family are the ones you see in the census, looking at birth of son Anthony in 1886 patrents are listed as Rose Garvin and Michael Kelly. I can find no marriage for the couple. This is not the same Townland as your Anthony Kelly's but could be connected.
The death of Hugh Carey aged 30 in 1870 where did you see this record I cant locate?
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Many thanks for the details on Sarah Carey. Were her parents listed? They'd have had the surname of Corrigan. I'm trying to push back into earlier generations if possible. May be a tricky task though.
Yes, not sure at all about those Kellys. It's hard to say. I just can't find any other Rose Kelly who fits the 1875 date living in Belmullet.
I got the Hugh Carey death in 1870 from Irish Genealogy. It's a website with plenty of records, but again the record is not available for online viewing.
Do you have the exact date of death for the baby Anthony Kelly? Just so I can put that into my tree. Many thanks for this help.
Cheers,
Tony
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Anthony Kelly born 28th Sept 1879 died 19 Nov 1879.
The death record shows only the details I have given its not an actual cert. I doubt very much that the Irish records show names of parents, as the Baptismal Records often do not list parents names only the sponsors, same with early marriage records.
I see the record for Hugh Carey in Belmullet 1870 on Irish Gen. It must be missing from the Irish Roots site, either way it would only show details of date and informant.
If I find a birth of Hugh will let you know.
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Many thanks for info. Will need to find Hugh Carey's record somehow, I may have to order it directly.
I was wondering if we could find out if there were any Corrigan families in the area, who were contemporaries of Sarah Carey/Corrigan. She was born c. 1815 so we'd be looking at people in that range. It doesn't seem to be a very common name in Belmullet, and assuming Sarah was born in Belmullet, if we find any other Corrigan families they will be related closely to Sarah.
Many Thanks,
Anthony
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Have you looked at the Belmullet parish register for marriage of Anthony Kelly & Anne Carey? It's in Marriage Register 1858-1880.
http://registers.nli.ie/parishes
This has Belmullet marriage registers 1836-1845 & 1858-Nov 1880 and baptism registers 1841-Dec. 1872 & Dec 1872-Jan. 1881. Searchable by year and month. Then scroll down for subsequent pages. There was only a page and a half of marriages in 1869 so I found it straightaway on 25th April. Names of witnesses unclear: Wm. Fadden? or Pudden? and Ann Crease?
In March of the same year a Pat Carey married a Mary Carey. Witnesses were John Kelly and Anne Carey. In August a Pat Carey married Honor McNamara.
Details in Belmullet marriage registers were sparse.
The later baptism register, 1872-1881 has parents' names, including maiden name of mother, names of sponsors and what might be place of abode in margin, or may be name of priest.
Earlier baptism register is harder to read. The page I looked at was torn at top and around edge. It had names of parents and sponsors. There may have been more written on the missing bits of pages.
Edit. I see that a previous post has already drawn your attention to the marriage register page with wedding of Anthony & Anne Carey.
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I was wondering if we could find out if there were any Corrigan families in the area, who were contemporaries of Sarah Carey/Corrigan. She was born c. 1815 so we'd be looking at people in that range. It doesn't seem to be a very common name in Belmullet, and assuming Sarah was born in Belmullet, if we find any other Corrigan families they will be related closely to Sarah.
Many Thanks,
Anthony
Have you looked at:
Griffiths Valuation for any Corrigan who may have held land there in 1850s?
Tithe Applottments register for 1820s/30s. Only includes people who were liable to pay tithes.
Further back in time, the Irish Linen Board register of grants to flax growers, aka The Spinning Wheel List. This dates from 1790s and obviously includes only flax growers.
Browse Belmullet marriage registers for 1830s & '40s and baptism register for 1840s on. People born c1815 would have been getting married in those decades. Keep a lookout for Corrigan as witness or godparent. A Corrigan man may have married a girl from a neighbouring parish, so look at adjacent parishes as well. The priest may have written his abode, especially if he was from another parish.
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Long time since I added to this, but found Darby Donohue, Denis Bingham and Rose Barrett all. This came after talking to older relations, who recalled some cousins in Fife. It turns out Mary "Maria" Kelly ended up there, and her son Denis Bingham died in 1969 at Glenrothes, married to Catherine O'Donnell who died in 1991. I intend to find their own children and try somehow to establish contact there. Darby Donohue married in 1922 to Catherine Swan, and the certificate shows his father to be Margaret Kelly (1874-1905) who also had the twins John and Rose Barrett. I can't locate the couple afterwards, and perhaps they emigrated back to Ireland or elsewhere. Any ideas would be useful here. Rose Barrett married in 1929 (as Rose Kelly) to James Davitt. Still need to find their fate too.
My main area of interest is still Anthony Kelly's parentage. I find on Griffiths Valuation that there was a Terence Kelly in Muingmore, the same township. He married Mary Conway in 1839 and had two daughters, neither of whom appear later on the registers. Given location he could well be a relation, even the father of Anthony. But I am also considering the Kellys of Rathmorgan, who included Hugh Kelly, James Kelly, Michael Kelly and an elder man named Edward Kelly. It's not too far from Muingmore and Maria and Anthony Kelly both worked nearby in Rathill later on in time.
The other difficulty is finding Bridget Kelly's death, perhaps someone can help me here. She was known as "Aunt Biddie" to the family, and they say she died around Edinburgh, from a bowel problem, was single. She may have been 90 years old, but that seems an exaggeration. Her death date is recalled around 1956, and the only Bridget Kelly I know of is the one born in 1883. Unless "Aunt Biddie" was in reality a cousin, that is a niece of Anthony Kelly and his wife Annie Carey? If so, that unlocks Anthony's own family somewhat. But in any case I searched every certificate for Bridget Kelly and none show her with Anthony and Annie as parents. In this case, where is Bridget Kelly? Just seems to disappear off the grid.
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Darby Donohue married in 1922 to Catherine Swan, and the certificate shows his father to be Margaret Kelly (1874-1905) who also had the twins John and Rose Barrett.
I think there are words missing from the above sentence. :)
The other difficulty is finding Bridget Kelly's death, perhaps someone can help me here. She was known as "Aunt Biddie" to the family, and they say she died around Edinburgh, from a bowel problem, was single. She may have been 90 years old, but that seems an exaggeration. Her death date is recalled around 1956, and the only Bridget Kelly I know of is the one born in 1883.
You may attract appropriate help re. Bridget's death by posting a fresh enquiry on the Scotland board. Include a link to this thread.