RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: iwccc on Monday 25 September 17 01:13 BST (UK)
-
Hello, I am trying to find out where John Parker (b. 1870) fits Into the family tree.
In the Census He is listed as the 'step-son' of William Copland b. 1854. Kelton and Catherine Dargavel b. 1857 Sanquhar. Would this mean that Catherine was married to a Parker before she married William Copland?
John Parker is quite a bit older than the children of William and Catherine.
Any help in clearing up this question would be much appreciated.
-
Hi have you checked the marriage for William Copland and Catherine Dargavel 1888 Hutchesontown to see if it mentions a previous marriage for William Copland ?
Looking at the 1881 census if this is the correct one address 495,Springburn Road Glasgow
William Copland age 26 b Castle Douglas (House painter )
Elizabeth Copland age 35 born Edinburgh
John Parker age 11 born Glasgow
William Parker age 3 born Glasgow
The 1891 census has William Copland age 36 b Castle Douglas
Wife Catherine Copland age 34 b Sanquhar
Which ties in with the 1888 marriage
There is a birth for a John Parker 14/9/1869 Hutchesontown Glasgow
Father Thomas Parker
Mother Elizabeth Thomson Wilson
Marriage for this couple 25/9/1868
High Church Glasgow
There is a marriage for a William Copland 1876 Gorbals Glasgow
Spouse Elizabeth Parker
There is a death on Scotlands People for Elizabeth Thoms Copland other surname Wilson
1888 Hutcheson town ref 644/11292
So that explains why John Parker is with William Copland
Just to add the 1871 Census address 1,Forsyth Street Glasgow
Thomas Parker age 30 born Paisley
Elizabeth T Parker age 25 born Edinburgh
John Parker age 1 born Glasgow
Rosie
-
Hi rosie17, Thank you so much for your input. if I got this right it means Elizabeth Thomson Wilson married Thomas Parker 25/9/1868 and they had two children: John Parker and William Parker.
Elizabeth then married William Copland and they are then referred to as Copland step-sons. Elizabeth died in 1888.
William then married Catherine Dargavel and they went on to have more children.
Have I got that right? Very confusing - just about over the numerous Williams in the family (Scottish naming!?!?).
My next question is what happened to the younger Elizabeth/Thomas Parker son = William?
Many many thanks for helping sort this out. Cheers
-
Getting the certificates on Scotlands People will just confirm if this is correct
1891 census address 15,Jamieson Street Glasgow
William Copland age 36 b Castle Douglas
Catherine Copland age 34 b Sanquhar
William Copland age 13 b Glasgow message boy ( still with the family )
James D Copland age 2 b Govanhill ( looks like he went to Australia )
Margaret Copland age 1Govanhill
1901 census address 119 Smith Street Glasgow
Catherine Copland age 43 b Sanquhar (head keeps boarders )
James Copland age 12 ,
Margaret Copland age 11
Thomas Copland age 8
Fanny Copland age 5
Margaret Dargavel age 70 (mother )
Fanny Copland age 71 ( mother )
You would need to check for a marriage for William Copland b 1878 but this could be a possible record
1901 census 98 Batson Street Glasgow Govan
William Copland age 23 b 1878 Glasgow (railway ticket collector )
Elizabeth J McArthur age 23 wife
Janet J McArthur age 4 months daughter
Rosie
-
Interestingly the 1901 census entry for William Copland actually shows as being Hutchesontown reg district on Scotlandspeople.This is the correct district for Govanhill, which is where Batson Street is located. Both Ancestry and FindMyPast show reg district as Govan ( though FindMyPast also shows
Hutchesontown). Govan and Govanhill are in completely different parts of Glasgow. As William was living in Govanhill in 1891 (Jamieson Street and Batson Street were a stone's throw from one another) this definitely looks like a possible.
Isobel
-
Thanks isobelw, Coming from Australia I find it difficult to work out the districts, localities etc of Scotland, so your input is very helpful.
Of course the other difficulty is the naming sequence of Scottish people. I have so many Williams and James - oh to find the right one!?!? Thanks again
-
thanks Rosie17, I do have the wedding certificate for William and Catherine but there is no mention of a previous marriage to Elizabeth Parker.
You mention a marriage of William and Elizabeth - can I ask where you found this as I can't see it anywhere.
Still can't find William Parker also. (the younger son)
thanks again really appreciate your help.
-
Hi you will find the marriage on Scotlands People
William Copland spouse Elizabeth Parker listed also as Elizabeth Wilson
1876 Gorbals Glasgow
Ref 644/12104
You would need to trail through the Marriages and deaths for the son William Copland on Scotlands People which could work out quite expensive ...
Rosie
-
Still can't find William Parker also. (the younger son)
thanks again really appreciate your help.
[/quote]
Try looking for a William Copland instead of Parker as the parents were married 1876 so he would have been the son of William Copland /Elizabeth Wilson
Rosie
-
You can also check the death for Catherine Copland /Dargarvel 1927 Govan
Ref 644/21139 ..To see who registered the death
Rosie
-
William Copland's army record is on Ancestry. His next of kin is given as Mrs Elizabeth Copland of 133 Jamieson Street and the record shows he married Elizabeth Irvine on 25th January 1900 in Glasgow and had two children - Janet Birrell Copland Nov 1900 and William Copland 1909
Scotlandspeople have a marriage in 1900 between William Copland and Lizzie J Irving and births of children Janet Irving Copland b Hutchesontown in 1900 and William Sellars Copland b 1909 Hutchesontown.
I think there is some confusion caused by Rosie17's reply #1 ( sorry Rosie17) where she has recorded the two sons of William Copland and Elizabeth in 1881 as Parker. Only John is recorded as Parker on the original census record, William jnr is recorded as Copland. William jnr is the son of William Copland and Elizabeth Wilson ( previously married to Parker).
Strange that the marriage certificate of William and Catherine in 1888 does not indicate he was a widower. Elizabeth Copland/Wilson/Parker had only just died that same year.
Isobel
-
Yes sorry my mistake thanks Isobel just noticed I did put Parker :o Did see the army records think iwccc has several tree's on Anc....y with this information
Rosie
-
Obviously some confusion about the mother of William Copland born 1877. He definitely seems to be the son of William Copland and Elizabeth Wilson/Parker.
Also confused about where the 1901 census info for William jnr came from. Scotlandspeople have his wife as Elizabeth J Copland ( not McArthur) and daughter as Janet J Copland ( ditto previous).
Isobel
-
Note the McArthur info is from Ancestry. Both FindMyPast and Scotlandspeople have Copland for wife and daughter. How can they get it so wrong!!
Isobel
-
Note the McArthur info is from Ancestry. Both FindMyPast and Scotlandspeople have Copland for wife and daughter. How can they get it so wrong!!
Isobel
Yes they do get things wrong ??? Army records have the the correct name for the wife and I did say
William was the son of Elizabeth Wilson and William Copland
Rosie
-
Note the McArthur info is from Ancestry. Both FindMyPast and Scotlandspeople have Copland for wife and daughter. How can they get it so wrong!!
Isobel
Yes they do get things wrong ??? Army records have the the correct name for the wife and I did say
William was the son of Elizabeth Wilson and William Copland
Rosie
I was referring to confusion on the Ancestry trees. You gave the correct information 😀
-
Yes they do get things wrong ??? Army records have the the correct name for the wife and I did say
William was the son of Elizabeth Wilson and William Copland
Rosie
[/quote]
I was referring to confusion on the Ancestry trees. You gave the correct information 😀
[/quote]
Thanks Isobel ;)
-
Thanks Rosie & Isoblew,
It will take me some time to chew all your information. Don't you just love the way Scotland naming sequences go......William after William after William/!?
I have now taken up a magnifying glass and can see that on the William Copland/Catherine Dargavel Marriage Certificate it does say that William is a widower. (missed that before )
Currently I am working on the generation before i.e. James Dargavel Copland and will gradually get the info from Scotlands people.
Appreciate all your help.
-
I have now taken up a magnifying glass and can see that on the William Copland/Catherine Dargavel Marriage Certificate it does say that William is a widower. (missed that before )
I wouldn't/couldn't be without a Magnifying Glass or a Calculator & Pen (My Genealogy Toolkit) & I make sure the 'Spy Glass' has a spare battery (mine has a light) just incase! ;D
Annie
-
Note the McArthur info is from Ancestry. Both FindMyPast and Scotlandspeople have Copland for wife and daughter. How can they get it so wrong!!
Easily. Ancestry (and they are not alone) just assumes that anything anyone submits is properly researched. Then others pick up the wrong information an add it to their trees and before you know it there are 50 trees with the same error - and of course, if all these trees say that's who it was, it must be true.
See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=619657.0 for an example of exactly this.
Never believe anything you find online unless it is an image of an original document, and even then be wary because even original documents can contain errors.