RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: jstuber on Monday 25 September 17 02:04 BST (UK)
-
All the information below is from records in America. I'm trying to locate them in England, with Lancashire the most likely county.
William Henry Holt was born 3/10/1854 (or 1856 in different records)
Annie Hardy was born 10/22/1856 (or 1859 in different records)
They married in 1876.
Their first child Minnie (might have been Philomena at birth) was born 11/1878. They emigrated to America in 1879 so the marriage, birth and departure were between censuses.
I found a christening record for a William Henry Holt in Rochdale on 4/9/1854 but I'm not sure that's him.
Any help locating their births, marriage or the birth of their child would be appreciated
-
Using FreeBMD.org.uk, I can't see any marriage, anywhere in England & Wales?
Likewise, the only Minnie births I can see are:
December qtr 1878
Guildford Registration District vol 2a, page 77
Holt, Minnie
June qtr 1879
Manchester Registration District vol 8d, page 302
Holt, Minnie
The Index Search at GRO.gov.uk, now includes Mother's maiden name on nearly all births from 1837 until 1915.
There are no Holt births, with a mother's maiden name of Hardy, 1876-1880?
The 2 births mentioned above have a MMN of Tayman and Flevelle respectively.
There are the following Birth Registrations for William Henry Holt, in 1854
March qtr, Manchester Registration District
June qtr, Haslingden RD
June qtr, Saddleworth RD
September qtr, Walsall RD
September qtr, Haslingden RD
December qtr, Chorlton RD
Plus another in 1853 and another 5 in 1855 ::)
(All to be found using FreeBMD)
-
Passenger records have
William Holt 26 labourer
Sarah Ann 30 wife
William 6
John 4
? female cannot read ? months possibly 11 months.
arriving New York 29 April 1879
Is this the right family?
I can find a Wilhena Holt registered Haslingden district Lancashire 1878 September Quarter, Volume 08E page 143 mothers maiden name Holt (transcribed as Hott)
so she would have been born July/August/September .
Wrong family disregard birth record per Rosie99
-
I can find a Wilhena Holt registered Haslingden district Lancashire 1878 September Quarter, Volume 08E page 143 mothers maiden name Holt (transcribed as Hott)
so she would have been born July/August/September .
Looks as though she is possibly still in Haslingden 1881
RG11 Piece 4132 f12 p17 parents Joseph & Sarah Ann
-
Thanks delete the BMD
The passenger lists though, is that the right family
-
Hello,
Is this your couple? Immigration date and years married are slightly different.
1910
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MG7P-GG7
1900
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M3M8-GSR
Heywood
-
1900 census same couple same address give 1879 immigration date for William, Annie and Minnie.
Trying to find them 1880
-
Heywood - yes, that's them in the 1900 and 1910 census. Immigration dates were often reported as different years in different censuses.
amondg - I could not find them in the 1880 census anywhere. Some people were either missed in censuses or did a fine job of avoiding them.
-
I think I saw them in 1920 and 1930 - immigration years 1877 and 1888 possibly but by then perhaps it didn't matter ;)
Do you have the names of other children besides those shown on the censuses. There should be 6 living children, I think. Just wondering if there are any clues there.
-
I can't locate the two children from that 1879 ship's list anywhere, certainly not in Allegheny County where Spring Garden is located. I can't find death certificates for them either, but that's not conclusive since those started at various dates in different parts of the country.
I do have death certificates for the two children in the 1900 census. Both list parents as William Holt and Anne Hardy, and both said they were born in Allegheny County (Pittsburgh), in 1883 and 1890.
I'm doing this research for a friend. I've asked him if he knows of any other of Minnie's siblings.
I appreciate all the help I've gotten so far.
-
One additional fact I've uncovered. It appears Minnie was Catholic, based on where she and other members of the family were buried. At least in this country, that's a pretty good indicator of religion.
-
I've become convinced that passenger list is the right family, so Minnie's name at birth was probably Mary Holt, and her mother's name was Sarah Ann Hardy.
Does that open up any new possibilities?
-
Census information
Willie was born in New York circa 1883.
Daughter Alice shows as being born Pennsylvania, age 10 in 1900.
-
Familysearch website has the following maybe just a coincidence Holt is a common name
Philadelphia Pennsylvania Births
Catherine B born 13 March 1890 parents William Holt and Annie
Jane Miller born 19 November 1885 same
Thomas born 20 November 1883 same
Images of above can be seen at an LDS library or depending on where you live the local archive office.
Burials
Kate Holt daughter of William 30 May 1905. age 15 not sure if this death or burial.
If its not a coincidence then Willie in 1900 could be a nickname for Thomas but why aren't the daughters with the family 1900?
In 1900 Annie states she has had 7 children 6 still living.
-
Passenger records have
William Holt 26 labourer
Sarah Ann 30 wife
William 6
John 4
? female cannot read ? months possibly 11 months.
arriving New York 29 April 1879
Children Wm, Jno and Mary.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939V-R396-3D
It is quite possible that the children are Sarah's, but not William's, so there may be a marriage for William and Sarah with her under a previous married name. There are so many possibilities in just Lancashire alone you would need to do a lot of double checking.
Debra :)
-
William Henry Holt was born 3/10/1854 (or 1856 in different records)
I found a christening record for a William Henry Holt in Rochdale on 4/9/1854 but I'm not sure that's him.
If dates are correct I think you can discount that one
-
Familysearch website has the following maybe just a coincidence Holt is a common name
Philadelphia Pennsylvania Births
Catherine B born 13 March 1890 parents William Holt and Annie
Jane Miller born 19 November 1885 same
Thomas born 20 November 1883 same
Images of above can be seen at an LDS library or depending on where you live the local archive office.
Burials
Kate Holt daughter of William 30 May 1905. age 15 not sure if this death or burial.
If its not a coincidence then Willie in 1900 could be a nickname for Thomas but why aren't the daughters with the family 1900?
In 1900 Annie states she has had 7 children 6 still living.
This is that family, I would say
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M3WB-YLL
-
I'm confident the Philadelphia family is not the one I'm researching. They're the one posted previously in Spring Garden in 1900 and 1910, a neighborhood of Allegheny City, later annexed into Pittsburgh. I have Minnie's marriage in 1901 with the same address. Philadelphia is 300 miles away on the other end of a very wide state.
Since somebody brought up the idea of William and Ann's marriage being a second one for Ann, I'll add a fact which I previously gave no credibility. I have obituaries for both William and Ann in which her maiden name is listed as Hardy. I also have death certificates for Minnie and three of her siblings. Three of those death certificates list parents as William Holt and Ann Hardy. But one lists Ann's maiden name as either Bower or Borver (it's hard to read). I read it as Bower. Maybe that was either her real maiden name or the husband's name in a first marriage. Odds are it was just a mistaken name but I thought I should point it out.