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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: FENBOY on Tuesday 26 September 17 11:05 BST (UK)
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I am trying to trace details of Joiner Stokes' parents. Joiner was born circa 1774 in Glatton? and died 1862. Married in 1800 in Ramsey to Hannah Grounds and in 1823 to Ann Hoefield. My ancestor is his daughter Sarah Stokes 1814-1839 who married Ben Slote in Holme. Joiner is an odd name but I did find a Joiner Stokes boot repairer in Oundle who may be some connection. Thanks in advance for any help. :)
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Info:
1851 UK Census:
Joiner Stokes
Huntingdonshire, England
Age 77
Marital Status Married
Occupation: Labourer
Birth Year (Estimated) 1774
Birthplace Glatton, Huntingdonshire
Joiner Stokes Head M 77 Glatton, Huntingdonshire
Ann Stokes Wife F 68 Fletton, Huntingdonshire
Edit:
Odd long shot but possible decedent ???
Birth Jun 1851
Joiner Stokes Peterborough 15 380
Peterborough is on the boundaries of the countie of Huntingdonshire
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The National Archives search catalogue has this to say:
Paper Register, probably kept by the Parish Clerk.
Baptisms, 11th November 1764 to 14th October 1812
See: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/94cfbd5a-d11a-4694-b887-651ec0186d80
May also be at Huntingdonshire Archives?
Doesn't look like it's online at all?
FamilySearch drew a blank!
FreeReg also drew a blank.
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Thanks for the reply and help
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I notice from the GRO records that Joiner Stokes was given as aged 96 when he died,giving a birth of 1765/1766.Not near enough to make him the Joyner Stokes born 1760,Elton?
Regards
Roger
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It might be worth considering the following,using the available records:-
The Joiner Stokes you are interested in is the Joyner Stokes,born 1760 Elton,parents John and Elizabeth
He marries Susannah Ellis,Barnwell,Northants(close to Oundle) in 1785.Joyner given as of Chesterton,close to Elton
A witness at the wedding is Samuel Stokes.There is a Samuel born 1762, to John and Eliza making him Joyner's brother.
Joyner Stokes is born 1786 to Joyner and Susannah
This Joyner/Joiner marries Sarah Wright in 1808 and is seen in the 1841 census with his wife,having named his daughter Susannah after his mother.He is in the 1851 census(no wife present) and dies in 1854(Oundle).
Meanwhile Joyner/Joiner(senior) has further marriages as you have already alluded to-Hanna Grounds(1800) and Ann Hoefield(1823).He is in the 1841/51/61 censuses in Ramsey and dies in 1862.
Regards
Roger
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Thank you Roger. Excellent help. I still have a Joiner Stokes born 1774 or 1776 in the 1841 and 1851 census. I can't see where he fits in though. It looks like they all fit in somewhere.
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I'm suggesting that the 1774,1776 dates are wrong.In 1861 he is given as born 1769,his death age gives a year of 1765/1766.Is it too much a stretch that he is the Joyner from the 1760 record(better make sure this is not a misread or mistranscription.The geography seems to largely fit.
Regards
Roger
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Joiner Stokes and Ann in 1851 living in Ramsey are aged 77 and 68 respectively.
Joiner is a labourer, born in Glatton. Ann was born in Fletton.
In 1861 Joiner and Ann are still in Ramsey, now recorded as aged 92 and 79 respectively.
Joiner is a retired farmer, formerly [tractor? traction?] engine driver . His birthplace is Aldwincle, Northamptonshire. Ann's is still Fletton.
Despite the discrepancy in Joiner's details, this seems to be the same couple.
When Joiner and Ann married, one of the witnesses was a Jemima Stokes (the other was named William Mitchell).
Jemima does not seem to be one of Joiner's children.
A Jemima Stokes, d/o William and Elizabeth born 13 May 1804 was baptised at Ramsey on 3 June 1804.
William and Elizabeth Stokes have several other children baptised at St Thomas a Beckett, including twins named Joiner and William, born 27 March 1813 (they both died the same year).
William and Elizabeth Stokes appear living in Ramsey in 1841 aged 60 and 65 respectively. William is a thatcher. Neither were born in Huntingdonshire.
They are still there in 1851, now aged 71 and 77. William is a pauper, formerly thatcher. His birthplace is in Northamptonshire. Ancestry have it as 'Alnwick', and it does look rather like that, but there is no such place in Northamptonshire. It could well be Aldwincle.
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Thanks Roger and Gallium. Yes Aldwincle looks right and I have Joseph Hall married Jemima Stokes 29 May 1826. Ramsey. Also Ramsey death Joiner Stokes 1760-1862. You have both been very helpful.
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All Saints, Aldwinckle
baptisms
20 July 1777
Joiner s/o John and Susanna Stokes
30 May 1779
William s/o John and Susanna Stokes
26 November 1780
Catherine d/o John and Susanna Stokes
7 April 1782
John s/o John and Susanna Stokes
burial
5 December 1780
Catherine d/o John and Susanna Stokes
A John Stokes married Susanna Johnson at Elton, Huntingdonshire in 1776. I can't find a likely marriage in Northamptonshire.
The Northants Strays Marriage index entry for this marriage:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ktr/
shows that John is from Northamptonshire. The place name appears to be uncertain, but it begins with 'A'.
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Nice finds,feels like it just needs a bit of care ascribing the correct BMD to the census data.
Regards
Roger
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Thanks to all you people! I live in Devon now, but am visiting my sister in Peterborough soon and will look at All Saints Aldwinckle on the way. The Johnson name is interesting too. My GG Grandmother, Sarah Stokes 1814-1839 Holme married Benjamin Slote in 1832. Their first child was called Johnson Slote! 1833-1836 born Thorney. :)
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Just going back to Sarah(1814-1839) to make sure she fits to the pattern developing,I see that the witnesses to her marriage in 1832 are a Thomas and Maria Stokes.It seems probable that the Thomas
is the one in the 1841 census given born 1782,residing at Holme Farm,Holme.He is on the same page as Benjamin Slote and quite a few other Stokes "sub groups".Is there clear evidence that this Thomas is part of the family being proposed(I can't find Aldwinc(k)le data!)?Equally I can only find one Sarah with baptism circa 1814 and she doesn't appear to be the one of interest.
Regards
Roger
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It may just be coincidence,but there is a couple at Holme Farm in at least 1841 and 1851,John and Sarah Stokes,born circa 1793/1794,who look suspiciously therefore that they could have had a daughter Sarah circa 1814??
Regards
Roger
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If relevant,there is an appropriate marriage of John Stokes to Sarah Bransum Dec 1812,Holme.
Regards
Roger
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Perhaps the more likely parents are John Stokes and Ann Johnson married in Holme in October 1811.
Regards
Roger
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Joiner and Hannah Stokes had a daughter Sarah born 9 October 1814 and baptised at Ramsey on 30 October. So she could be the woman who married Benjamin Slote. However, as the marriage took place in 1832, her father's details aren't recorded in the marriage register.
Sarah Slote was buried at Holme on 2 February 1840, aged 27, which would indicate that she was born a little earlier than 1814.
A Sarah Stokes d/o John and Ann Stokes was born 12 October 1812 and baptised 25 October at Ramsey. This couple don't seem to have had any other children baptised at Ramsey.
William and Elizabeth Stokes (mentioned earlier as parents of Jemima), had a daughter named Maria born and baptised at Ramsey in 1808, and one named Sarah in 1809 ( so probably not your Sarah). Just to complicate matters, Elizabeth's maiden name is also Johnson. They married at Ramsey in 1801.
A couple named Thomas and Mary Stokes are baptising children at Ramsey at around the same time. Their address is given as Holme Fen. They had a son named Thomas in 1808. None of the other Stokes families have a Thomas, and only William and Elizabeth have a Maria. (This getting like one of those logic puzzles. Sorry)
Just seen Roger's last post. That would make Sarah d/o John and Ann a good fit.
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My cousin had told me Sarah Stokes was born c.1813 at Ramsey and buried 1839 at Holme. Sarah married Ben Slote in 1832 at Holme witnesses Thomas and Maria Stokes. Ben Slote married again to Elizabeth Wright in 1841 at Holme. If Sarah died aged 27 then she is more likely to be the daughter of John and Ann ( Johnson) Stokes born 12th Oct 1812. If she was the daughter of Joiner and Hannah the birth date is too late 9th Oct 1814. However the Maria born 1808 in Ramsey supports Sarah's father perhaps being Joiner Stokes. I have a Maria Stokes died Sep 1838. I'll check with my cousin to see why she thought Joiner Stokes was Sarah's father. I'll also check more about John and Ann (Johnson) Stokes. Thanks again to all for help!
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If you use the GRO index to search for the death of Maria Stokes in 1838, you will see that this was an infant under 1 year old:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
(You have to register to search, but this is free)
You can see the burial for Sarah Slote by searching here:
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_queries/new
(Transcriptions for the parish of Holme are not complete. There are marriages and some burials, but no baptisms)
William and Elizabeth Stokes' daughter Maria married John Edwards in Ramsey in 1836. The 1851 census shows William and Elizabeth at the same address as Maria and John Edwards.
And, apologies - I should have thought of looking for this sooner. Sarah Stokes d/o Joiner Stokes married Jonathan Thacker at Ramsey in 1837.
There does seem to be be some connection between the Ramsey Stokes and the Holme Stokes, but I wouldn't feel confident in saying that the John Stokes who married Ann Johnson is necessarily John Stokes the brother of Joiner and William, born in 1779, although of course he could be.
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Thanks Galium
Your link to freeReg is fantastic. All my Slotes and Stokes very easy to locate. Even got John Robert Slote who died by drowning as a baby. I think Joiner Stokes is no longer a direct ancestor! Can you confirm date of Sarah Stokes born to John and Ann Stokes (Johnson) 1812 please. I think that solves the problem!
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From the parish register of St Thomas a Becket, Ramsey. Sarah d/o John and Ann Stokes born 12 October 1812 baptised 25 October.
As you can see from FreeReg, there is a John Stokes buried at Holme on 15 November 1856, aged 66.
The will of John Stokes, farmer of Holme Fen was proved at the Prerogative Court of Canterbury on 16 December 1856. You will be able to see this on Ancestry.co.uk if you have a subscription, or you can download a copy from the National Archives website:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ku0/
for £3.50
Among the beneficiaries are "the four children of my late daughter Sarah Slote"
In 1851 John Stokes living in Holme is aged 58 and names his birthplace as Ramsey. However there are no baptisms of Stokes children at St Thomas a Becket during the 1780s and 1790s. His wife at this time is named Sarah, and I can't currently find a death of Ann Stokes.
However, going back to the will. John mentions a daughter Susan, wife of William Stokes. This couple are also living in Holme in 1851. Susan's birthplace is March, Cambridgeshire.
At St Wendreda, March the vicar was helpfully including mother's maiden names in the baptism register in 1820, when Susanna d/o John Stokes and Ann (late Johnson) was baptised on 2 January.
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Burial Of Ann Stokes of Holme Fen 26th November 1866,aged 78.Could be the wife of Thomas.
Regards
Roger
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So John Stokes looks good now. I'll get his will. Sarah Slote had 5 children but Joseph died as an infant so 4 is correct. They were Johnson. Robert, William and George. William Slote married Susan Moyes which agrees with the will. There are 2 deaths for Ann or Anne. 1.Anne Stokes died 1834 aged 48 and another 2. Ann Stokes died 1866 aged 78. If John remarried a Sarah then perhaps the Anne was his first wife. Just about there THANKS
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Here is a copy of the 1776 marriage
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Thanks everyone. I've sent for the Will of John Stokes buried Holme Fen 15 Nov 1856 and Proved Canterbury 16 or 17th Dec 1856. PROB 11/2243/280
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Thanks Galium and others! The Will of John Stokes of Holme Fen (died 1856) clearly shows that he is the father of Sarah Stokes who married Benjamin SLOTE, my G-G-Grandfather. :)