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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Clackmannanshire => Topic started by: jkhansen on Wednesday 27 September 17 18:53 BST (UK)
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Question: Did Agnes MEIKLE marr Archibald DAVIDSON bef. she married James BROWN?
Archibald Davidson and Agnes Meikle married 16 Nov 1847, South Leith, Midlothian, Scotland. Spouse's Father Name: David Meikle.
Daughter: Agnes Meikle.
I can not find any information regarding James BROWN!
Thanks for any help you can give me
JKH
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Did Agnes MEIKLE marr Archibald DAVIDSON bef. she married James BROWN?
No info given as to her birthyear - in 1851 she is 23 so born approx 1828/29
Married Davidson in 1847 she would only have been 19 so highly unlikely she would have been previously married.
Also - 1847 marriage would show her as a widow and she would re-marry under her previous married name - does it?
No info given as to when and where she married James Brown - did she marry him as Agnes Davidson or as Agnes Meikle?
Is she shown as a widow on the Brown marriage?
If the Brown marriage was after 1855 - downloading a copy of the cert will give you Browns age/parents names/mothers maiden name - assuming that marriage was also in Scotland
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There's a death for an Agnes Meikle other surname Davidson in 1924 Scoonie Fife age 95 but no Agnes Meikle other surname Brown
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Question: Did Agnes MEIKLE marr Archibald DAVIDSON bef. she married James BROWN?
I have now proof that Agnes Meikle marr. James Brown 23 June 1848, South Leith, Midlothian, Scotland after Archibald Davidson.
- JKH
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Hi JKH
Can we maybe look at things in a different way?
How did you arrived at Agnes Meikle and James Brown/Alexander Davidson? Are you connected to a Brown child or a Davidson child?
Agnes Meikle and James Brown are showing as having children past the start of official registration in Scotland in 1855. In particular, they had one child in 1855 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQ5F-J5J This first year of regitration includes more info for one year only. For birth certs, it will include the ages of parents and where they were from normally. Also the date and place of the marriage of parents and how many children they had (alive/deceased, boys/girls).
There is a pedigree file that has this family heading off to New Zealand. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:2:S12D-5J9
Monica
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There are 1851 census entries for both Archibald Davidson and wife Agnes ( age 22 b South Queensferry) and James Brown and wife Agnes ( age 23 b South Leith). Looks like these are two different Agnes Meikles.
Isobel
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Agree, Isobel.
JKH, will be good to know which line you are interested in :)
Can't see either couple in 1861 so far. It may be that the Brown family had headed of to NZ by now?
Monica
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there's also a death of Archibald Davidson in 1914 in Scoonie Fife age 79
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Thanks Monica - part of my family https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:2:S12D-5J9
James Brown and wife Agnes (age 23 b. South Leith). Child of David Meikle and Jane Bryce. Arrived in New Zealand on the "Ulcouts" 22 Jan 1864 with his wife Jean, son William & daughter Janet.
My line - Thomas Meikle (David's younger brother) marr to Catherine nee Bachope came to NZ on the Queen of the North, 31 July 1862 together with his wife, Catherine, son Thomas and daughter, Janet who marr Henry Pullar FORD in NZ. My gr,gr. grandparents.
Information I have - Janet's birth date. 1840?
1851 Census Alloa, Clackmannanshire, Scotland
Address: 1 Forth Street
MEIKLE, Thomas, 36, 1815, Head, Abercorn, Linlithgowshire, Scotland, Tayman Alloa Ferry
MEIKLE, Catharine, 42, 1809, Wife, Airth, Stirlingshire, Scotland
MEIKLE, Janet, 11, 1840, daur, Scholar, Alloa, Clackmannanshire, Scotland
BENNETT, Mary, 17, 1934, Airth, Stirlingshire, Scotland, House Servant
MALCOLM, Jean, 16, 1835, Airth, Stirlingshire, Scotland, Home Servant
John and Thomas were with grandparents in connection with the Census' count ...
John MEIKEL, 13, 1838, Grandson, Scholar, Airth, Stirlingshire, Scotland.
Thomas MEIKEL, 7, 1844, Grandson, Scholar, Alloa, Clackmannanshire, Scotland.
What is known - Janet Meikle came out with her father Thomas, mother Catherine and brother Thomas who was 18 yrs., born 5th July 1845 arrived in New Zealand on the "Queen of the North" 29th July 1862, taking 4½ months. Her Dad had owned his own ship for passengers and vehicles. Janet used to talk about her father's trip as he sailed from Edinburgh to Glasgow and near Dumbarton.
I have yet to find more information about 'father's trip from Edinburgh to Glasgow' as Janet's father must have been a Captain and why these 3 brothers - Willaim, David and Thomas; sons of David MEIKLE and Agnes nee DICK came to NZ - this period of time? What was happening in Scotland?
Thanks for your help Monica, Isobel and Carole W.
- Jean
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Hi Jean
Have you got Thomas and Catherine in 1841?
FreeCen have them as:
Thomas Meikle 20 b. Scotland
Cathrine Meikle 25 b. Scotland
John Meikle 3
Janet Meikle 1
Isabella Fife 15 female servant b. Scotland
Address: Forth Street, Alloa
The transcriber has Thomas' occupation as:Faxman and remarks: Occ: uncertain, Alloa Ferry crossed out
Janet is showing also as aged 1 so certlainly looks to have been born in 1840 in Clamannanshire.
Monica
Added: Such a well researched line :) See you have the above info already from here www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=563739.0
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Thomas is described as a Tayman Alloa Ferry ( 1851) and Faxman ( 1841). I think he was a Tacksman( or Taxman). If you Google Ferry Tacksman you will find some background. It would appear that Thomas leased the rights to provide a ferry service between Alloa and South Alloa, which lay on opposite banks of the Forth. From reading newspapers of the time he appears to have been a lessee of the Scottish Central Railway Co ( who ran the Glasgow to Edinburgh Line). They were competitors to the Stirling and District Railway which was opened in the early 1850's and had a link into Alloa Ferry. In 1852 the lease for the ferry was taken over by James Falshaw ( later Sir James Falshaw) who was a Railway engineer involved in many of the major railway projects of the time. He immediately had a new steamship built and introduced to the crossing.Prior to the opening of the Stirling line the ferry had been very busy but by 1855 the railways had taken most of the traffic and the railway company seems to have bought the lease back from Falshaw and introduced a much reduced ferry provision, much to the annoyance of the local community.
South Alloa appears to have been quite a busy port for a while with ships favouring it over Glasgow because it was cheaper to berth there and had good rail links.
I have attached a newspaper notice from 1853 describing Thomas as 'late of Alloa Ferry'. Also a description of the ferry service in 1851.
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Another reference to Thomas which describes him as a Taxman
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Great background there, Isobel :)
Monica
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Thanks Monica - I have Thomas and Catherine's Census information from 1841. Can one go further back than 1841?
Isobel - these newspapers gives me a little more insight of the family (Thomas Meikle) and ferry service. We understood in NZ that Thomas, his brother William and David Meikle worked as engineers but have no proof of their education. They ended up working in a timber mill and did well farming. Janet (Thomas' daughter) remembers her Dad had owned his own ship for passengers and vehicles, (in those days)? and talked about her father's trip as he sailed from Edinburgh to Glasgow and near Dumbarton.
Are newspapers clipping from the Stirling Observer? I don't have access to it and have Google Ferry Tacksman with not too much success.
Once again, thanks for your help.
- Jean
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Jean, unfortunately, the 1841 census in Scotland is the first of use for genealogy research.
Monica
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Thomas Meikle's ship would have ferried passengers and vehicles across the River Forth between Alloa and South Alloa. Before the Railway came to the north bank of the Forth in the early 1850's the ferry was very busy as it took passengers across the Forth to link to the train line between Edinburgh and Glasgow. Thomas gave up his lease on the ferry in 1852. Having done further digging it would appear that his landlord was actually the local landowner, the Earl of Mar. Thomas may have been astute enough to realise that once there was a rail link on the north of the Forth the need for the ferry link would all but disappear. It also seems apparent that a substantial amount of investment was needed to bring the existing service up to an acceptable standard. I am attaching an advert that appeared in 1861 when the lease was being re- offered and I assume a similar advert attracted James Falshaw in 1852. He seems to have been backed by the Central Railway Co who ran the Edinburgh/Glasgow line through South Alloa. He introduced a brand new steamship 'The Jane' and it was noted that the old boats plying the service had been condemned. By 1855 it was obvious to the Central Railway co that the ferry was losing money and they seem to have bought out James Falshaw and taken over the running of the service themselves. By 1861 the lease is being offered out again to interested parties. Alloa has no direct links by water to Glasgow/ Dumbarton other than by sailing right round the northern coastline of Scotland, so I am unsure where the story of sailing to Glasgow may have come from. I doubt the ferry boats were fit for anything more than a short river crossing.
I think I have found Jane nee Bryce in leith in 1841 and 1851 on Freecen( can't find a matching record on Ancestry). The 1841 indicates that her husband is a seaman. He is absent in both census. In 1851 she has a two year old grandson James Brown living with her.
I have also come across some information regarding James Meikle son of David Meikle and Agnes Dick. I found a death notice in 1887 in the Fife Herald for Catherine Foote described as widow of the late James Meikle, Alloa Ferry. Also a death notice in1903 for David Meikle son of late James Meikle, Manager Alloa Ferry. James Meikle ( mother's maiden name Dick) died in 1856 in Alloa, age 36. He had married Catherine Foote in 1849 ( Alloa/Perth). In 1851 James and Catherine are in Alloa and James is described as Alloa Ferry Boatman.
Isobel
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Ferry lease advert
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Think this may be David Meikle's merchant navy record ( from Findmypast)
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I have also come across some information regarding James Meikle son of David Meikle and Agnes Dick. I found a death notice in 1887 in the Fife Herald for Catherine Foote described as widow of the late James Meikle, Alloa Ferry. Also a death notice in1903 for David Meikle son of late James Meikle, Manager Alloa Ferry. James Meikle ( mother's maiden name Dick) died in 1856 in Alloa, age 36. He had married Catherine Foote in 1849 ( Alloa/Perth). In 1851 James and Catherine are in Alloa and James is described as Alloa Ferry Boatman.
Isobel
Thanks Isobel and such a lot you have found out abt part this family and very interesting David's Merchant navy record. I daresay that Thomas (b. i1815/my line) and brother William (b. 1798) would have a similar merchant navy record?
Interesting to read that David Meikle was born at Corstorphine as written in my papers that all 3 brothers were born in Linlithgow /Abercorn East Lothian.
Was there more information about Agnes Meikle nee Dick, their mother? Believed she died in 1851/ 1861 - Abercorn.
Was there some of accident that James Meikle died so young at the age of 36 in 1856? (His last child b. in 1855).
So many questions and wondering if should start a new topic?
Once again thanks for your help esp of ferry condition etc and I think my gr,gr, gr. grandma overheard those tales - Alloa unsure where the story of sailing to Glasgow may have come from. I doubt the ferry boats were fit for anything more than a short river crossing.
- Jean
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Abercorn and Linlithgow are actually in West Lothian.
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Think this may be David Meikle's merchant navy record ( from Findmypast)
I don't think this David Meikle is part of my family (would be great) as he was born abt 1778-1800 in Linlithgow, Linlithgow - need to know who his next of kin was? I have not heard of any family members born at Corstorphine, Edinburgh.I have also come across some information regarding James Meikle son of David Meikle and Agnes Dick. I found a death notice in 1887 in the Fife Herald for Catherine Foote described as widow of the late James Meikle, Alloa Ferry. Also a death notice in1903 for David Meikle son of late James Meikle, Manager Alloa Ferry. James Meikle ( mother's maiden name Dick) died in 1856 in Alloa, age 36. He had married Catherine Foote in 1849 ( Alloa/Perth). In 1851 James and Catherine are in Alloa and James is described as Alloa Ferry Boatman.
Isobel
Was there some of accident that James Meikle died so young at the age of 36 in 1856? (His last child b. in 1855). How can I get a copy of these dealth notices?
So many questions and wondering if should start a new topic?
Once again thanks for your help esp of ferry condition etc and I think my gr,gr, gr. grandma overheard those tales - Alloa unsure where the story of sailing to Glasgow may have come from. I doubt the ferry boats were fit for anything more than a short river crossing.
- Jean
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Both William ( b 1798 Linlithgow) and David ( b 1800 Linlithgow) married women with the surname Bryce ( William married Mary and David married Jane). Not sure if they were sisters. Both women were living within a couple of doors of one another in South Leith in 1841 minus husbands. Jane is described as wife of a seaman at sea. Mary has nothing against her name but I suspect her husband William was also a seaman.
I hit on the David Meikle b Corstorphine because there are lots of family links with Dalmeny/South Queensferry, which are adjacent parishes to Corstorphine and your David did end up in Leith.As you say, birth year is slightly out and your David was born in Linlithgow so maybe not him.
Isobel
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No info given as to her birthyear - in 1851 she is 23 so born approx 1828/29
Actually 1827/1828 if 23 is accurate.
Also - 1847 marriage would show her as a widow and she would re-marry under her previous married name
Not necessarily. Before the start of statutory registration in 1855 it was common for a widow to remarry under her maiden name, and sometimes the marriage record does not say that she is a widow, never mind what her deceased husband's name is.
This is one from my own tree: 1834, 26th June. James Hay merchant in Arbroath and Margaret Sang, widow, residing in Timber Market in this parish were contracted in order to marriage and having been regularly proclaimed were married the 30th June. [Brechin Parish Register] Also 1834. Contracted May 27, James Hay merchant in Arbroath and Margaret Sang in Brechin. Married June 30. [Arbroath Parish Register] Margaret's parents were Alexander Sang and Margaret Mill, and her first husband was Andrew Watt, a sergeant in the Royal Artillery.