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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Breconshire => Topic started by: garlands on Thursday 28 September 17 19:40 BST (UK)
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Elizabeth ARTHUR m Isaac THOMAS in Llanfihangel Abergwesyn on 28 Apr 1805. She was buried in Llanfihangel Abergwesyn, alongside her husband, in 1852, the gravestone giving her age as 76 (which ties in with the census records), so presumably she was born around 1776.
I have been unable to find details of her birth. Can anyone help, please?
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Long shot from Family Search site using marriage area details (doesn't match possible DoB of 1776 as stated by age at death) ???
Elizabeth Arthur and Isaac Thomas
Marriage Banns
Date 28 Apr 1805 Llanfihangel Abergwesyn, Brecknockshire, Wales
Elizabeth Arthur
Baptism 16 Mar 1780 Penderyn, Brecknockshire, Wales
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Thanks.
Yes, I have seen the entry you mention, and must admit to being tempted by it. The date could be explained away by its being a very late baptism - not unusual, I have one 'family' baptism where the eldest child was aged 11. However, the geography may be a bigger factor; in those years people were moving towards the 'big' places rather than away from them. What do you think?
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Possibly the register hasn't survived
Here is a clip from the register, most other pages are like this too.
There are a few Arthurs in the earlier registers including a William Arthur born 1742. There is also a marriage in Llanfihangel Abergwesyn on 7 Apr 1771 of a William Arthur to an Elizabeth Price.
I can't see any children born to this couple in the register either (or what I can see)
Claire
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Claire
Thanks for that. Unfortunately, I can't fully read the register extract. I can make out 'Thos Price' above the '1776', but that's about it.
On the face of it, the marriage you found in April 1771 could very well be that of Elizabeth ARTHUR's parents, with her father being the William baptized in 1742 fitting in nicely (do you have the exact date, please?).
All this activity in Llanfihangel Abergwesyn reinforces my doubts about the 1780 baptism in far-away Penderyn (some 28 miles - not exactly an afternoon's stroll!).
I'd love to go with it all - what do you think?
George
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Hi garlands
There are few Arthur entries in the parish register- possibly because the register is in very poor condition or as we know there is an Arthur family there. The early register is in Latin too
William was baptised as "Guleilmus bpt. 4 Jan 1742" son of Guleilmi.
Looks like the father William passed away and was buried in 1748. I'm confident this is the father as opposed to it being a child burial- others say ' son / daughter of ' - there is also a Magdalene dau. of Wm. Arthur buried the same year. I can't give the month the register page hasn't survived that well.
There is also a marriage of a William Arthur to a Ruth Pugh 17 April 1796. And another of a John Arthur to Catherine Jones on 24 March 1799.
Possible brothers of Elizabeth?
All events took place in Llanfihangel Abergwesyn
Claire
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Claire,
Thanks for all that. It will take me a while to digest it all.
It still leaves me with the puzzle of what, if anything, to do about the marriage in Penderyn. Do you think it's 'mine'? I suppose that there aren't too many ARTHUR's about, so there must be a high probability that it's the one I want.
George
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Do you mean 'baptism' in Penderyn ?
I'm only using my phone at the moment ( I'm about to leave work)
If that Elizabeth is the one you seek - and I can't see a burial or marriage in Penderyn- her father is a Jenkin Arthur. There are numerous Arthur mentions in the Penderyn registers.
I'll have a closer look for you when I get home, unless someone else has a go.
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I did notice one thing.
There has to be two families at least
We have a) a John Arthur marrying in Llanfihangel 1799
And b) a John Arthur being baptised in Penderyn 1790
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Sorry, Claire. I should have said baptism.
George
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Hi George
I'm still none the wiser. There are no baptisms for William & Elizabeth Arthur in Llanfihangel.
I've checked the Penderyn registers as much as I can, I can only see burials there up to 1785 and then nothing. Their registers are also in a weary state. I can say there must be something in the water there - I've never seen so many illegitimate children born in one place.
I would have to say that the Elizabeth you have in Penderyn looks likely but there is a chance she isn't.
Maybe Bishops Transcripts may be more informative ?
Also, I've seen some of the records transcribed as ARTHYR.
Claire
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Claire,
There are indeed 2 ARTHUR families, with the Penderyn family appearing the larger, but this might be because more records have survived.
The William and John marriages which you found in Abergwesyn do indeed appear to be of Elizabeth's brothers. Census data (1861) on John show that he was born in 1774 in Abergwesyn; it also lists a daughter, Mary, born in 1826, and a son, William, born in 1846 (i.e.aged 15), so almost certainly yet another of the baseborn offspring so common in the parish, with Mary being his real mother!
I'm still working on the rest of your discoveries - thanks
George
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Claire,
After much thought, I've decided that the Penderyn ARTHUR family is not immediately connected to the Abergwesyn family; there are simply too many inconsistencies. Consequently, using the mass of details which you've un-earthed, plus the little original research which I've managed to do, I believe my ancestral line runs like this:-
Abergwesyn
04 Jan 1742 b of William son of William ARTHUR (d 1748)
07 Apr 1771 William ARTHUR m Elizabeth PRICE
1774 b of John son of William & Elizabeth ARTHUR (who had at least 2 children)
1775 b of William son of William & Elizabeth ARTHUR
1776 b of Elizabeth dr of William & Elizabeth ARTHUR
28 Apr 1805 Isaac THOMAS m Elizabeth ARTHUR
Thanks to you, we have exact dates for the marriages of John and William, but it looks like the exact dates for the births of Elizabeth and her brothers will forever remain a mystery because of missing records, but I'm most grateful to you for helping me to get this far.
Sincerely
George