RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: MarMnkly on Saturday 30 September 17 16:42 BST (UK)
-
Please can anyone help :)
George Mercer marries Elizabeth Atkins on 4th June 1911 in the parish church of St John the Baptist, Hoxton. He says he is aged 30, a bachelor, occupation porter, current address 17 Canton Terrace, and father Charles Mercer, deceased. The witnesses names haven't prompted anything (Lily and Harry Smith)
As I know his children's names (Alfred, May, William, Harry, Emma), I am fairly certain that I have him in 1939 with his wife and some children, but with a birthdate of 15th August 1878?
I am now stuck, as I cannot confirm an accurate birthdate, and can't find him in any census prior to his marriage, and with a 'soldier father' named Charles.
Any pointers greatly appreciated
Mar
-
Have you found him on 1911
Louisa Maud
-
Hi Louisa Maud
I haven't, and thought that would be easy given that it was a month before his marriage. I have also tried the address he gives on his marriage certificate, and the actual number doesn't exist as far as I can see (goes up to 16 Canton Terrace). I have also tried his occupation without success.
Thanks for replying
Mar
-
Hi Louisa Maud
I haven't, and thought that would be easy given that it was a month before his marriage. I have also tried the address he gives on his marriage certificate, and the actual number doesn't exist as far as I can see (goes up to 16 Canton Terrace). I have also tried his occupation without success.
Thanks for replying
Mar
17 is there in 1901 but I can't see any sign of it later on
-
Hi think I have a trail......
I can see
George Mercer in 1911age 36 born St Luke
In 1908
Edith Mercer marries giving same address in Hoxton as George in 1911 census.
A George Mercer was her witness.
Tazzie
-
As to father Charles being a soldier maybe at sometime . Edith and sister Florence Rosetta both say warehouseman.
The family fits but it throws his age out but he might have shaved a few years off.
Tazzie
-
1891 census
Charles Mercer hd m 45 warehouseman b London city
Maria. Wi m 43. b London city
Florence daughter u 24 Hoxton
George. Son u 18 carpenter stLuke
Edith. Daughter u 5 st Luke
Rg12/232 f22
Tazzie
-
Thanks rosie99 and tazzie
I've just looked at the images for Edith's marriage (1908) and George's marriage (1911) and the signatures look very similar.
It seems like he's a lot older than he claimed ;D
Mar
-
Marriage
12/04/1868
Charles James Mercer, father Robert Shoemaker
to
Maria Hibbitt (varies on child's birth registrations) father William Clerk
Parish Church Hoxton
Louisa Maud
-
Thanks louisa maud :)
Marriage
12/04/1868
Charles James Mercer, father Robert Shoemaker to Maria Hibbitt (varies on child's birth registrations) father William Clerk
Parish Church Hoxton
Louisa Maud
-
2 baptisms
Florence Rosetta Mercer
BT 13/11/1870
BN 20/10/1870
George William
BT 01/06/1873
BN 08/05/1873
Both baptised at St Giles without Cripplegate
Parents
Charles William and Maria Mercer
Charles William possibly died 1900 Hampstead registration
Louisa Maud
-
The George William Mercer (born 8 May 1873) to Charles James and Maria is listed in 1939 in Shoreditch with Emily (born 1900) and Albert born 1918, so I'm not sure now if he is the same man
-
Hi....
Skipped out for food have another dig now.
Tazzie
-
If the date you gave is correct 15/08/1878 then the only registered birth in London is
George Henry Mercer Dec qtr 1878 Hackney, maiden name Dennis
I then looked at marriages Mercer to Dennis
I came up with 2
1) William Hunter (Hurter) Mercer
to
Eliza Dennis (Denniss)
1861 Shoreditch
2) John George Mercer
to
Mary Ann Carrell Dennis
1860 Shoreditch
What thinkest thou??
Louisa Maud
-
Thanks louisa maud
I thinkest ;D that George may also be telling porky pies about the name of his father (Charles) as well.
He could be one of the ones you linked to but think I may be at a dead end in terms of definitely being able to pin him down :(
Will keep searching - need him in a census with a soldier dad called Charles, if details true
-
I have tried everything but have know idea where he is in 1911. Found a father Charles mother Letitia and son George b 1876 in Ireland.
Or an unmarried Charles a soldier b India living in Hove in 1881. Nothing matches .
I'm stumped
Tazzie
Ps have
we got a date of death?
-
Had thought that as the marriage was so near to the census date thy might well have been living in the same dwelling, but no she is at home with her parents, foiled again, back to the drawing board
Louisa Maud
-
I am still stuck on George Henry Mercer born 1878 Hackney Dec qtr, mother's maiden name Dennis/Denniss
he married in 1902 Bethnal Green to Elizabeth Rixon, no images online, I do wonder as you have suggested the truth and the whole truth might not be here at all
Louisa Maud
-
The marriage to Elizabeth Rixon is on Ancestry. Father was John George Mercer, occupation Porter. George Henry was a Wood Sawyer, age 24.
Isobel
-
Well I am stumped so far
Louisa Maud
-
"The George William Mercer (born 8 May 1873) to Charles James and Maria is listed in 1939 in Shoreditch with Emily (born 1900) and Albert born 1918, so I'm not sure now if he is the same man "
Don't worry if you have sent us down the wrong route, just let us know as much as you can, as I said above, I am stumped, what we do need is a death date if possible
Louisa Maud
-
You list the eldest child as Alfred - is he the Alfred Mercer mmn Atkins whose birth was registered in Carlisle, Jun qtr 1912? Is there a known connection with Carlisle? I wonder if this could be a useful clue (the other children seem to have been born 1916 onwards in Shoreditch).
-
Hello, yes, it is the Alfred Mercer registered in Carlisle in 1912 (born 9th April) mmn Atkins, and then all the other children registered in Shoreditch.
The is a yet no known connection to Carlisle, and it did seem odd that one child was registered there
Mar
-
There is is an Ethel Mercer mmn Aitkens registered in Carlisle in 1913. Could she be another child?
Isobel
-
Hi isobelw
it must be, as have just found the baptism in St John, Hoxton, Hackney on 24th August 1913 to parents George and Elizabeth
Birth date given as 13th June 1913
Mar
-
It seems the same with Alfred Mercer?
Baptism in Hoxton 29 Sep 1912, but birth registered in Carlisle
-
Do you have Alfred's birth certificate?
-
Hi avm, yes, but not with me right now - I need to get it back from a family member
Mar
-
If George, who was witness to Edith's marriage in 1908, is correct then I think he is on 1891 census at home with parents Charles and Maria
Charles James and Maria Hibbitt, and variations married 1868 in Shoreditch
they appear to have had a child Florence born circa 1867 Hoxton , George 1873 and Edith 1885 according to this census born St Luke which comes under Finsbury and Holborn
Edith's marriage cert does not show her father as dec at 1908 but that could be an error by the incumbent
Louisa Maud
-
There might be a clue in Edith's How, nee Mercer's children, sister to George
Henry George Charles born 1909
May Florence 1910
George William 1912
George after her brother and Charles after her own father, so unless someone else comes up with something else I am convinced he was born in Holborn , St Luke's about 1873
LM
-
Look at 1945 and 1946 Electoral registers
3 Enfield Buildings, I am sure I have seen this address on a marriage cert, might be your George, I have corrected 2 as they are listed as Hoxton ? 1945
LM
added
Edith marriage address was 22 Enfield Buildings
George W died 1947 aged 74 d of b circa 1873 Shoreditch
-
Old Bailey online
interesting court case 06/09/1910
George Mercer aged 37 for manslaughter
prisoner released on own recognisances of £10
Just thought it might be of some interest
LM
-
I am loath to bombard you with info but I am wondering If George married again or are we on the right track because I have found a marriage
1918 Shoreditch
George W Mercer
to
Emily Gladys P Woodhouse
and if you look on ER's 1945 there is an Emily G P living with George W Mercer in 3 Enfield Buildings
LM
-
Hi...
Found a newspaper report of the case you found.
George Mercer a labourer aged 37 . The victim was Thomas Bryant. Bryant was drunk and challenged George to a fight and struck him. George hit him back in the face and Bryant fell to the floor fracturing his skull. George was in prison for 6 weeks before the hearing . The judge stated that although George caused the death he was very little to blame.
Like you I keep coming back to the same little group.
Tazzie
-
s
-
So bearing the court case in mind year 1910 I wonder if he just disappeared and missed the next census, yes, I seem to be coming back to the same G W Mercer born Holborn 1873 MMN Hibbitt or variations of
How are we doing Mar ?
LM
-
Found George 1911 but can't say any more, think of his place of birth and follow through
LM
-
The George William Mercer (born 8 May 1873) to Charles James and Maria is listed in 1939 in Shoreditch with Emily (born 1900) and Albert born 1918, so I'm not sure now if he is the same man
George William Mercer married Emily Gladys P Woodhouse in 1918 in Shoreditch. Albert Mercer mmn Woodhouse born 1919. They are all on the 1939 register. The George Mercer the OP is looking for is also on the 1939 register with his wife and two children.
Isobel
-
There appears to be 4 born to George and Emily
Albert as mentioned above 1919
Leslie 1921
Ronald S 1923
Lawrence 1925
all born Shoreditch
LM
-
Are we back at the camera repairer i found early cause I'm stumped otherwise?
Tazzie
-
Hi Louisa Maud.
Thought I had him but wrong.
-
Yes Tazzie, the address is familiar isn't it,? it carries on through ER'S but at a different number,
number 3, Emily G doesn't appear to die till 1993 born 30/01/1900 Epping reg dist.
I just wonder if we are on the right track, if not I am completely stumped and think I will have a lay down I a darkened room!!
LM
-
I am off to a darkened room but bed time :).
George & Elizabeth. And George & Emily are both on 1939 list but I cannot pin him to a census with family for definite. We need to know death details.
Tazzie
-
Yes, I guess we will have to wait till tomorrow
LM
-
Look at 1945 and 1946 Electoral registers
3 Enfield Buildings, I am sure I have seen this address on a marriage cert, might be your George, I have corrected 2 as they are listed as Hoxton ? 1945
LM
added
Edith marriage address was 22 Enfield Buildings
George W died 1947 aged 74 d of b circa 1873 Shoreditch
Out of interest there's a Charles Mercer on electoral registers at 22 Enfield Buildings in 1909 & 10, which contradicts the potential death earlier in the decade (if the father).
There's also a William Mercer and family at 70 Enfield Buildings in 1891 - he's irish and an engineer's labourer. Does have a son George but b c1883. they'd moved by 1901, so probably a coincidence [this is William married to Louisa]
-
Good find Mabel, it is an address that features in the family
I am holding back now till MAR comes back.
Louisa Maud
-
Oh my gosh everyone - just got in from work and am amazed by all your hard work. ;D
I have a day off tomorrow and am going to lay it all out with old fashioned pen and paper and fit it all together and get back
A day of looking for long gone relatives - what a treat
Margaret
-
Both William ( b 1798 Linlithgow) and David ( b 1800 Linlithgow) married women with the surname Bryce ( William married Mary and David married Jane). Not sure if they were sisters. Both women were living within a couple of doors of one another in South Leith in 1841 minus husbands. Jane is described as wife of a seaman at sea. Mary has nothing against her name but I suspect her husband William was also a seaman.
I hit on the David Meikle b Corstorphine because there are lots of family links with Dalmeny/South Queensferry, which are adjacent parishes to Corstorphine and your David did end up in Leith.As you say, birth year is slightly out and your David was born in Linlithgow so maybe not him.
Isobel
-
Both William ( b 1798 Linlithgow) and David ( b 1800 Linlithgow) married women with the surname Bryce ( William married Mary and David married Jane). Not sure if they were sisters. Both women were living within a couple of doors of one another in South Leith in 1841 minus husbands. Jane is described as wife of a seaman at sea. Mary has nothing against her name but I suspect her husband William was also a seaman.
I hit on the David Meikle b Corstorphine because there are lots of family links with Dalmeny/South Queensferry, which are adjacent parishes to Corstorphine and your David did end up in Leith.As you say, birth year is slightly out and your David was born in Linlithgow so maybe not him.
Isobel
think this is in the wrong thread!
-
Thought it was me but easily done
LM
-
Sorry - working in two threads at the same time. Please ignore.
Isobel
-
Hello :)
Have had pencil and paper out and am sure we can rule out the 3 Enfield Buildings 'George Mercer' because he exists on the electoral register in 1921 (and earlier) at the same time as 'my George Mercer' resides at 59 Provost Street, Shoreditch.
Looking back through the electoral register, I can track George Mercer at 59 Provost Street between the years of 1919 and 1936. In 1931 he has his son Alfred (and sons wife, Winifred) and his own wife Elizabeth living in the same house. Throughout this period, the voters letters (on register) for George is R and O (Residence and Occupation)
In 1918, I am assuming it is the same George Mercer at 59 Provost Street, but no wife is listed - an Edgar George Buzzacott is living there as well. The voters letters for both of them is NM and O (Naval or Military). I am assuming that this means George Mercer is/has served during the war.
Now, this is where I started to get confused, as a search for Edgar George Buzzacott brings up his WW1 army records on Ancestry. He says his wife is also called Elizabeth Atkins (same name as George Mercers wife), that he married on 4th June 1912 in St Johns, Hoxton (exactly a year after George Mercer married Elizabeth Atkins in St Johns, Hoxton), and that his child's name is Alfred born Carlisle on 4th April 1912 (the same first name of child, location and date that Alfred Mercer is born).
I can find a marriage in 1906 (Uckfield, Sussex) of an Edgar George Buzzacott to Beatrice Maud Austin or Mary Ann A McDougall.
1881 Census for Edgar George Buzzacott (born 1878) gives a fathers name as Charles.
Baptism for all the Buzzacott children (in Camden in 1880 to Charles and Jane) gives each child's DoB in the right hand column; Edgar George Buzzacott is born 15th August 1878.. funny that... the same date of birth given for George Mercer in 1939 ;D
would love your views on all of this
Mar
-
GOSH!!!
Have you found Buzzacotts on 1939
LM
-
Hi Louisa Maud
I cant find him after 1918 - thinking both are the same man ;D
-
I am wondering if there is an alias going on here
Edgar was born in St Pancras, his baptismal records show he was born 15/08/1878 of Charles and Jane, if it is believed he married in Uckfield
We need to find him and his wife on 1911
Bigamy ?, what say you?
I am flummoxed
LM
-
I'm suspecting there is no such person as George Mercer - that he is Edgar George Buzzacott. If he is, where is his first (legal) wife after 1906
I cant work out which of the women he married in 1906 to see if they can be traced at a later date .
-
Found a military record
Edgar George Buzzacott showing he has a child born Carlisle 1915, Alfred, not found his birth yet but doesn't Carlisle feature earlier, the plot deepens
Can't find them on 1911 as yet
I think I would invest in a cert 1906 for his marriage
LM
-
If she is Mary Ann I am going to suggest her maiden name might be Mcdougall,
LM
-
All makes sense (well a bit more) a further scroll through Edgar George Buzzacott's military record says he is the same person, and that he took the Mercer name after his parents died and he went to live with his aunt and uncle
I will transcribe and post
-
Blimey.....
He re invented himself.
As Charles Buzzacott......married....wait for it......Jane MERCER I. 1872.
No wonder we've been going mad oN This one.
Tazzie
-
Letter stamped Feb 1918
Sir, I am sending you my marriage certificate and the birth certificate of my son and you will see they are in a different name. The reason of this is when my mother and father died I went to live with aunt and her name was Mercer and I have been called Mercer ever since and that is how I came to get married in that name. So will you kindly send the certificates when finished with bck to my wife at 59 Provost Street. Your obedient servant E.G. Buzzacott
-
On marriage Charles is a cabinet maker father also Charles cabinet maker
Jane is from Brighton father James a coach builder.
St Paul cannonbury Dec 25th 1872
Tazzie
-
So, he took his mothers maiden name then
He must have still been married to Mary Ann McDougall though :-) when he married under an alias in 1911
;D
-
Well after all that
Charles Buzzacott aged 30 of Napier Road
married
Jane Mercer aged 30 of Brighton
25/12/1872
Islington
witnesses
Richard Wilkinson ?
Mary Ann Buzzacott
Wonder if the family knew all about this?
Think I ought to have a lay down in a darkened room
LM
-
Well, at least it is sorted
Thanks everyone - many heads needed, even though a few lay downs in darkened rooms needed :).
Margaret
-
Siblings all baptised same day 1880
Albert Fred b 1875
Dora Martha b 1876
Horace Charles b 1880
Flora hap 1874
Mary Maud Ann bapt 1882
Ethel Anna bapt 1889
Tazzie
-
If anyone can find his first/real wife in a later electoral roll, I would be very grateful
Mar
-
Hi its 1911 so can't pick it out in full....... if you look for Mary Buzzacutt.
I can find her as Mary Ann A McDougall born Waldron Sussex in 1881. Census gives father John born islay Scotland.
Rg11/1052 f76 p 21
Tazzie
-
Thanks tazzie
-
I don't think Edgar GEorge was exactly an orphan....
Charles Buzzacott born @ 1843 died 1906 in Brentford Middlesex.
He's not marked deceased on siblings marriage up to 1906.
Tazzie
-
Oh no, Mary Ann is now Annabell on 1891
RG12/784 FOLIO 67 PAGE 17
LM
-
1901
Roderick Mcdougall is listed aged 1 as Grandson with grandparents Charles and Elizabeth , born Waldron, I cannot as yet find him on ONS, to check his maiden name but he is listed on Freebmd's
Roderick Sidney Macdougall 1900 Uckfield ref 2b129, he later becomes Roddy
LM
-
I don't think Edgar GEorge was exactly an orphan....
Charles Buzzacott born @ 1843 died 1906 in Brentford Middlesex.
He's not marked deceased on siblings marriage up to 1906.
Tazzie
and mother Jane is alive in 1901, living with Charles! she also dies in 1906
-
Do you think he used whatever name he wanted to when he fancied I wonder if he married bigamously as I suggested earlier, haven't found Mary Ann McDougall after 1911
The chase has been a runaround to be honest, hopefully we can find more about Mary Ann, she was registered in 1877 Uckield, wonder if there would be any baptism records available whereby we just might find a birth date
LM
-
Do you think he used whatever name he wanted to when he fancied I wonder if he married bigamously as I suggested earlier, haven't found Mary Ann McDougall after 1911
The chase has been a runaround to be honest, hopefully we can find more about Mary Ann, she was registered in 1877 Uckield, wonder if there would be any baptism records available whereby we just might find a birth date
LM
-
Sorry folks, bit like Bogofs, you got 2 for the price of 1, I have no idea why
LM
-
Bigamous posting as well...... this has been a strange story.
I think he invented the aunt & uncle story for his own means. I cannot track wife 1 after1911 either.
Tazzie
-
Did you notice Edgar's occupation when he joined up in 1917??
He's only a police constable!!
-
Hi.
Also if you look closely at Rodericks birth....strange I can't find on gro site....but it is listed as..
Roderick Sydney B MacDougall.
.......what's the B for ......?
Tazzie
-
Yes, that makes tu think doesn't it, I would love access to the baptism records, is he the child Mary Ann had prior to 1911?
LM
-
Mabel, what a laugh?
LM
-
Roderick S B Macdougall born 26/02/1900 died 1982
LM
-
For some reason I feel this is all quite strange, fascinating story though
LM
-
Mary Ann Buzzacut is on 1911,
Louisa Maud,
-
I think Roderick S B Macdougall born Waldron was Mary Ann's son, can't prove it but that is the feeling I have
Louisa Maud
-
Sybil Mary A Mcdougall born 1904 Eastbourne, no mother's maiden name shown but she is listed as a niece elsewhere
What I don't understand is that George Mercer is shown as a bachelor upon marriage 1911 to Elizabeth Atkins, and he is listed with Edgar Buzzercott on 1918 ER's as George Mercer
I am beginning to think I am confused.com !!
LM
-
Hi
We all love a little mystery.
Yes I had found Mary Ann in 1911 saying she was single.
Sybil is with Uncle John........Mary Ann's brother......so possible as no mmn on gro.
Cannot find her after this however. The asylum entry looks good so I wonder if she ends up lost in the system.
Tazzie
-
Worth looking at the actual 1911 census image re marital status of Mary Ann.and whether she has children.
William
-
I agree with William as there is also additional useful information about any family she might have.
Isobel
-
Hi..... yep you are right married..... I looked at line above when I posted back on the other page....
....... leading a merry little dance this one....
As yet.... no death......no second marriage......even immigration looked at...where does she go.
Tazzie
-
Marriage for a Sybil M A Macdougall to George T Andrews in Sept q 1930, Medway, Kent - can be identified in the 1939 register.
William
-
My thoughts are, if only I had access to the church records, I would have a field day
I have tried all combinations of Mary Ann's surname after 1911, still, not long before 1921 census!!
I am hoping someone in Margaret's family might come up with something, surely someone must know
I am not sure how he got away with it to be honest
LM
-
The Mary Buzzacott in the asylum could be the one who dies aged 73 in 1919 as she shows on the census born Brighton.
I've looked under her maiden name and hit the papers on FindMyPast. Nothing pops out as being the Mary Ann we need.
Tazzie
Louisa Maud....
He told a pack of porkies to cover himself. Did he cut himself off from family so no one would know?
-
I find it quite unbelievable, but the 2 names as at 1918 confuse me
LM
-
uote author=MarMnkly link=topic=779810.msg6340069#msg6340069 date=1506786170]
Please can anyone help :)
George Mercer marries Elizabeth Atkins on 4th June 1911 in the parish church of St John the Baptist, Hoxton. He says he is aged 30, a bachelor, occupation porter, current address 17 Canton Terrace, and father Charles Mercer, deceased. The witnesses names haven't prompted anything (Lily and Harry Smith)
As I know his children's names (Alfred, May, William, Harry, Emma), I am fairly certain that I have him in 1939 with his wife and some children, but with a birthdate of 15th August 1878?
I am now stuck, as I cannot confirm an accurate birthdate, and can't find him in any census prior to his marriage, and with a 'soldier father' named Charles.
Any pointers greatly appreciated
Hello, if the info is correct that's my great grandad, think I need some in depth info, new to this site so will have a look
Sue
-
Hello Sue......
We've done a little bit of chasing on this family the last couple of days. He seems to have had an alias.
Does the info fit with anything you have already?
Welcome to Rootschat.
Tazzie
-
Sue, I think you are going to find this very interesting
Louisa Maud
-
Hi Tazzie, thank you. I have not really delved into this as much but was passed some info, my dads name is Alfred W Mercer and my dads dad my grandad was also called Alfred Mercer he did not have a middle name, who was in the army (royal engineers). some of the info fits in with my family and the places mentioned is where we all lived back then, I will have to have another chat with my dad and hope he can remember more about hes grandad, we often speak about hes side of the family, I have been reading some of the posts and not sure all of it fits in with what I already know...I dont like making links without some thorough checking if you see what I mean.
Regards Sue
-
Sue, I think it will take some piecing together, hopefully you can add info to help sort it out, it has been most interesting to say the least, if we can help, please ask
Louisa Maud
-
Noticed on Edgar's army record that he claimed to have served previously in the 1st battalion Middlesex regiment from which he was discharged on 21st Feb 1906. This is just shortly before his marriage to Mary Ann McDougall. Unfortunately don't see any records for this period of service, but maybe some of our army experts could help.
Isobel
-
It would seem that no record for Edgar George Buzzacourt in the Middlesex Regiment pre 1906 survives.
If it makes any difference to this convoluted story, he volunteered in November 1915 (he was a PC in the Railway Police) age 39 years 7 months but because of his low medical category he joined on an engagement that required a nominal one day "active" service and was then placed on the reserve to wait being mobilised. This came in November 1917 when he first served in the Labour Corps (his records are damaged and the unit cannot be read) and then from Jun 1918 to Feb 1919 in 67th Protection Company Royal Defence Corps at Newhaven. All in UK.
Wife Elizabeth Atkins married in Jun 1911 Hoxton (when he was called George Mercer)
but called Buzzacott on the army papers.
Presumably the Mary Ann Buzzacott seen in 1911 is the Mary Ann McDougall he married in Uckfiled in 1906?
MaxD
-
Presumably the Mary Ann Buzzacott seen in 1911 is the Mary Ann McDougall he married in Uckfiled in 1906
Yes, Uckfield is in Sussex, she was only once spotted in Sussex a few years later, since 1911 she doesn't appear as Mary Ann Buzzacott, several of us Rootschatters have hunted for her but so far to no avail, the marriage in 1911 he is shown as a bachelor, porky pies there somewhere
Louisa Maud
-
Any update Mar
Louisa Maud
-
The Mary Buzzacott in the asylum could be the one who dies a
I can't find the earlier mention of Mary Buzzacott in the asylum on the thread, have I just missed it? The asylum record has her as Mary Ann a pauper admitted 12 Nov 1910 discharged 5 Jan 1911. Abandoned by her man who then calls himself unmarried to wed Elizabeth????
If this is old news, please disregard!!
MaxD
-
I was puzzled by the asylum reference as well MaxD. Don't think there is any mention of it earlier in the thread. Perhaps the OP could clarify.
Isobel
-
Tazzie wrote
The Mary Buzzacutt in the asylum could be the one who dies aged 73 in 1919 as she shows on the census born Brighton,
this age was to old for the Mary we were looking for unless her age is incorrect,
As far as I know that is the only reference to Mary Buzzacott/Buzzacutt in an asylum but there wasn't any finding of her after that as far as I am aware
Se remains a mystery sadly
Louisa Maud
Can't talk about 1911 but you need to look further for Mary on 1911, she is there and details are confirmed by the entry
-
Hi....
From UK lunacy patients register.
The entry reads....
No.27170 Buzzacott Mary Ann female admitted 12 November asylum Brighton recovered/released 5th January 1911.
No age given......but a death for a Mary A Buzzacott occurs in Brighton in 1919 birth year given as 1846... this lady appears in the census .
However..... we can't say the asylum entry is a yes or no really.... just wanted to show there was someone of same name in the area.
Tazzie
-
I believe the Mary Buzzacott released from the asylum was born 1846 and was a single woman who died 1919, not "our" Mary
Louisa Maud
-
Glad you agree I have no idea where to look for her though.
-
Hello
I've been quiet ;D but busy searching the information on the siblings of Edgar George Buzzacott and speculating on how easy/difficult it would be to reinvent yourself as someone else and marry in the general area of London in which you were born without questions asked?
Edgar had 5 siblings who were alive at the time of his marriage to Elizabeth Atkins on 4th June 1911 (using the alias of George Mercer).
Flora (1874) appears on the 1911 census for Ontario, Canada.
Albert Fred (1875) is on the last UK census locally, but by 1912 is also in Ontario, Canada.
Dora Martha (1876) is also on the last UK census in Buckinghamshire, but again emigrates to Ontario
Ethel Anna (1884) is in Ontario by 1909 when her first child is born.
So, no parents are alive (died 1906) and all close relatives have gone abroad. First cousins (on his mothers - Jane Mercer's side) seem to mostly be located in the Brighton/Sussex area.
Back to his first wife - it seems fairly certain that the Mary Ann Buzzacutt we have all seen in the last census is our lady, but where did she go? Could she have started calling herself Annabel(la) as she had been called this in the 1891 census. The assumption is that the 'a' in Mary Ann A stands for this. Did she live with someone else and assume their surname or maybe emigrate, I don't think we will ever find out easily without more concrete details.
Mar :)
-
Yes, Mary Ann did use the name Annabelle on one of the census, if only we knew her date of birth it might help you with the 1939 register on Findmypast assuming she lived till 1939 or so, I don't imagine there would have been a divorce, her husband just must have slipped away and gone from her for good, seems a terrible shame and very sad for Mary Ann.
Wish we could somehow help to solve this mystery for you, did MaxD come up with anything concrete?
Louisa Maud
-
Well, I'm sure I have found Mary Ann McDougall :) :) then Buzzacott. Here goes:
A search of ships passenger lists shows a Miss M A McDougall (maid) leaving the UK on 18 Jan 1912 with Mr and Mrs R G Goss for South Africa (ship is the Demosthenes). No age is listed for her. Roy Gingell Goss later dies in 1917 in the UK. His wife Vivian Maud (nee Liddle) stays in South Africa and remarries Tudor Sidney Butler.
Taking a leap of faith that M.A. McDougall could be our person, I looked in the National Archives and Records Service of South Africa, and up came a correspondence file for MATHEY, MARY ANN ANNABELLA. (BORN MCDOUGALL) (SSP MATHEY ERNEST IRONSIDE ERCELDONNE VAN DYK)
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.za/search-the-collections/repository/node/743?search_api_views_fulltext_op=AND&search_api_views_fulltext=mary+ann+mcdougall&items_per_page=10&=Apply
Mar
-
Hello super sleuth,
Wow wow and thrice wow!!, what a find, one would hope she found happiness after what must have been some terrible years for her presumably being abandoned by her first husband. Well done if I might say
Louisa Maud
-
I'm cooking on gas ;D
A daughter was also born in 1915
Mar
-
Wonder if she had married again by then
I like you because not only have you asked for help you are quite prepared to research yourself as well and that is rewarding for us to
LM
-
;D
Thanks Louisa Maud
no marriage as yet - next bit to look for, and her death
-
Well done....fantastic find.
It all falls into place nicely.
Tazzie :)
-
Almost can't wait for the next bit, wonder if SA had any future census from 1912
LM
-
Have you put Roy Gingell Goss in a search, he died in WW1 , buried in Warwickshire, home address given as Johannesburg
LM
-
Great work, Mar!
Had a play on familysearch and there seems to be a baptism for Ernest in 1890 as well as a baptism in 1934 where he is named as father but an Agnes Ethel is named as mother.
Using your link from Archives South Africa I entered the name Ernest Mathey - two records came up. As well as the one for Mary Ann there is a file from 1953/4 for him spouse named as Agnes Ethel Lawton. Looking at the wording of these records and the use of the word estates I actually wonder if they are indicating that Mary Ann died in 1922 and Ernest in 1953.
William
-
did MaxD come up with anything concrete?
Nothing to add from the military angle I'm afraid. Happy to watch from the sidelines some fascinating research going on!
MaxD
-
Hello again :)
I've emailed the Pietermaritzburg Archives Repository to see if they will provide me with any information relating to the repository file for Mary Ann Annabella Mathey in 1922.
William, I'm not sure about the other Mathey, probably same man but the names seem to change ! (what's new there ;D)
MATHEY, Ernest Ironside Erceldoune S/SP MATHEY, Agnes Ethel, born Lawton
Start Date: 1953 End Date: 1954
Compared with
MATHEY, Ernest Tronaide Carseldowne Van Dyk on baptism of child with mother Mary Ann Annabella (family search records for 1915) but on the 1922 record - MATHEY Ernest Ironside Erceldonne Van Dyk
Mar :) :)
-
Have you put Roy Gingell Goss in a search, he died in WW1 , buried in Warwickshire, home address given as Johannesburg
LM
Roy Gingell Goss worked for the Norwich Union Fire Insurance Society Ltd. in Johannesburg, South Africa. He arrived in the UK from Cape Town on 23 February 1917 and served as a Private in the Gloucestershire Regiment 3/6th Reserve Battalion. He died, while on probation, in Warwick. He was 35.
He was born in Swansea on Oct 27 1881, and baptised in Holy Trinity in 1882 to parents Herbert Joseph (accountant) and Fanny Alma
Mar
-
He left his effects of £2 8s 2d to his widow Vivien.
He was on probation to join the Army Pay Corps.
MaxD
-
Hello again :)
I've emailed the Pietermaritzburg Archives Repository to see if they will provide me with any information relating to the repository file for Mary Ann Annabella Mathey in 1922.
William, I'm not sure about the other Mathey, probably same man but the names seem to change ! (what's new there ;D)
MATHEY, Ernest Ironside Erceldoune S/SP MATHEY, Agnes Ethel, born Lawton
Start Date: 1953 End Date: 1954
Compared with
MATHEY, Ernest Tronaide Carseldowne Van Dyk on baptism of child with mother Mary Ann Annabella (family search records for 1915) but on the 1922 record - MATHEY Ernest Ironside Erceldonne Van Dyk
Mar :) :)
I think the two Mathey records are for the same man. If you compare the two, it looks as if the record for the birth of Mary Ann's child is a very bad mistranscription of the name on the other one - Ironside- Tronaide
Erceldoune - Carseldowne
-
Hello :)
As an update:
I sent for the birth certificate for Sybil Mary Agnes McDougall born in Eastbourne on 18 March 1904, and found that she is another child of Mary Ann Annabella McDougall. There is no father listed (similar to Roderick Sydney Bennett McDougall, born in 1900).
I don't think this child will be linked to her later marriage (1906) to Edgar George Buzzacott, but we will never know.
Mar
-
Hi all, I have an update I have checked and 17 Canton Terrace did exist indeed I have found someone who’s mother used to live in the very house, but much later. It was demolished like a lot of those houses were. I have got a copy of my grandads original birth certificate and the address is definitely correct.
-
Hi Sujepero, that's really useful information
Does your grandads birth certificate show the registration in Carlisle, with a birth date of 9th April 1912, or registration in Shoreditch with the home address at 17 Canton Terrace?
There is a baptism on 29th September 1912 in St Johns Hoxton for an Alfred Mercer (snipping attached) with the residence address of 20 Linton Street, Carlisle, suggesting the parents have come down for the baptism in their local church.
Mar
-
Hi Mar
I’ll contact you via messenger I think as I have also got some more info x