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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Perthshire => Topic started by: kimhulme on Monday 02 October 17 22:33 BST (UK)
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I have been reading about the above hotel and surprised to read that
it was designed and built in the early 1870's. I have an earlier dated (Sept 1861) letterhead and letter but cannot gain access to the several local history sites to inform them. The writer basically sends the bearer to Mr McEwan with a dish for filling with salt butter. The writer is Robert ....surname indecipherable. I would like to know Robert who?
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Can you post a clip with the writing along with some extra writing for word comparison please?
Annie
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Earliest on VRs;
MACKENZIE DANIEL
Proprietor
DRUMMOND ARMS HOTEL
NO 8 JAMES SQUARE, CRIEFF
1875
VR011300021-
Prior dates on SP are 1865 & 1855
Annie
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Very impressed with such a speedy response. After trying many possibilities am pretty sure it's Robert France. When checking on the Perthshirecrieff etc outfit they give several occupations which includes proprietor (rather than landlord/licenced vic) Will scan tomorrow and post.
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Seems the Drummond Arms Hotel was in operation more than a century before the 1861 letter....
"Bonnie Prince Charlie held his last war council in the Drummond Arms Hotel before he was finally defeated at Culloden in 1746"
http://www.perthshire-scotland.co.uk/crieff3.htm
Annie
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pretty sure it's Robert France.
Not seeing a Robert France in Crieff on 1861 although a couple of that name nearby.
There's a Daniel McKenzie, 24, Grocers Ap, High St, North Side, Crieff
Reg No. 342
ED 1
Sch no. 78
Line 8
Roll CSSCT1861_48
Could he be the Proprietor by 1875 in Reply #2?
Annie
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MCCALL COLIN 36
1861
342/ 1/ 12
Crieff, Perth
From another source ;)... Address is Hotel & his Occ. is Hotel Keeper
Annie
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Not finding any 'Mr' McEwans in 1861 with a suitable occ. which would involve 'a dish for filling with salt butter' (as such) at a shop but there's....
MCEWEN THOMAS 62
1861
342/ 5/ 28
Crieff, Perth
From another source ;)...Occ. "Richard Farmer" ::)
I can't even hazard a guess on that transcription ???
It would make sense for a farmer (if he had livestock) to make such things as Butter, Crowdie (Cheese), Black/White Puddings & of course Haggis etc.
I'm unsure of terms used in different places such as 'Crofter' who would also be 'Farmers' (as were my family).
Annie
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Hmm..Talk about conflicting evidence...
"In February 1746 the Jacobite army was quartered in and around the town with Prince Charles Edward Stuart holding his final war council in the old Drummond Arms Inn in James Square"
http://www.visitcrieff.scot/history-of-crieff/
At least they agree it was 'Drummond Arms' whether Hotel or Inn :-\
Annie
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The letterhead and signature.
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pretty sure it's Robert France.
Not seeing a Robert France in Crieff on 1861 although a couple of that name nearby.
Certainly looks like FRANCE & this is the 'nearby' ones;
FRANCE ROBERT 41 (Logie Cottage, Occ. Land Steward)
1861
374/ 9/ 1
Logie, Perth
FRANCE ROBERT 35 (He's an Ag. Lab)
1861
329/ 4/ 11
Auchterarder, Perth
Annie
Added...Pretty impressive Hallmark for the 'Drummond'!
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1859 - 1862
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/ordnance-survey-name-books/perthshire-os-name-books-1859-1862/perthshire-volume-19/62
Annie
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Original 'Drummond Arms' not where it is now (hard to tell)?...
https://canmore.org.uk/site/163675/crieff-james-square-drummond-arms-hotel
https://www.buildingsatrisk.org.uk/details/917133
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/4587330
Annie
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Reckon just have to leave it as one unsolved. Info might turn up at a later date. Nice headed paper for someone though?
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Reckon just have to leave it as one unsolved.
You haven't said if Robert France is possibly related or what your goal is to find out more or if anyone connected with the Drummond Arms is a relative?
Interestingly, I found an 1832 VR (very rare)!
http://perthshirecrieffstrathearnlocalhistor.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/the-1832-voters-roll-for-strathearn.html
There's mention of Victualler, Vintner, Senior Vintner, Spirit Dealer & Innkeeper.
Annie
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My Robert France enquiry was simply to find out more about him and possibly locate a descendant or interested party with a view to making the item available to them. Re your Harrison interest Rosinish. I have a signed (twice) pictorial headed bill of Thomas Harrison of 5 Church St.,West Hartlepool, dated 1857. He was a Hardwareman, Tin Plate Worker, Brazier. My research suggests his wife was Sarah Jane Lewin. The right person would love to have this as complementary to their family tree. As regards the indicated other names of interest, can't help. K.