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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Norfolk => Topic started by: bubylauj on Tuesday 03 October 17 13:51 BST (UK)
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Not sure if this is the correct forum to post this in apologies in advance if not.
I have recently started searching my other half's family as he wanted to know more about them only to hit a bit of a problem. :-\
So i got back to Joseph Gooch born in Norwich Norfolk in 1861 so i start looking for census records and jackpot ;D i found 1911, 1901 and 1891 and from there things took the turn! ???
On the 1891 census he has his mother listed a Maria B Sutherland and two of his sisters (Annie M Gooch and Eliza A Gooch) at first i thought this was good until i tried to dig deeper Maria seems to have many children only 3 with the surname Gooch and 3+ with Sutherland, she has remained single all the time and none seem to have a father on their records. :-X
I have managed to find Maria on the 1891, 1881, 1871, 1861, 1851 and 1841 census however Joseph only comes up on the 1891 with his mother not on the 61,71 and 81. (61 i thought may be to do with month of birth and census taking place) I can't seem to find him.
I'm not sure where i have gone wrong or what to do to get past this. ???
Anyone had similar experience or any advice (apart from run away) it would be very much appreciated.
Have a great day.
Laura.
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You need to transcribe the confusing censuses, not describe them.
This is the 1891?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4HWW-RN2
With a marriage to sarah utting 1883 in norwich?
The birth in norwich mar 1/4 1861 has no mmn.
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1891 Joseph Gooch Aged 30yrss
Head Born 1861
Mother Maria B Sutherland
Wife of Joseph Sarah Gooch
Children listed
Joseph Gooch Alfred Gooch Bertie Gooch Ernest G Gooch Alice M Gooch Anna P Gooch Lillie N Gooch
Birth Place Norwich, Norfolk, England
Parish St Margaret
Residence Place: St Margaret, Norfolk, England Norwich
district West Wymer Norwich
ED 5 Piece: 1528Folio: 62
Household
Names Ages
Joseph Gooch 30
Sarah Gooch 32
Joseph Gooch 6
Alfred Gooch 4
Bertie Gooch 1
Maria B Sutherland 64
Annie M Gooch 32
Eliza A Gooch 24
Ernest G Gooch 8
Alice M Gooch 6
Anna P Gooch 4
Lillie N Gooch 3/12
John Drak 71
1881 Maria Sutherland
Aged 53 about 1828 Head of House
born Norwich, Norfolk, England
Parish Norwich St Benedict Norfolk
Address Heigham St Norwich
Occupation Charwoman
ED 8a Piece 1949 Folio 22 Page 37
Household
Names Ages
Maria Sutherland 53
Annie Sutherland 33
Rachel Sutherland 20
Agnes Sutherland 19
Eliza Sutherland 17
George Robinson 22
1871 Maria Southerland /Sutherland
Aged 47 Estimated born 1824
Relation Inmate Where born N [Norwich, Norfolk, England]
Parish Heigham Ecclesiastical parish St Philip Norfolk England
Sub-registration district West Wymer
institution Norwich Workhouse Household schedule number 1 Piece 1822 Folio 116 Page 18
1861 Maria Sutherland
Aged 32 Estimated born 1829 born Norwich
Relation Daughter to Mary Ann Sutherland
Civil Parish:Norwich St Peter Mancroft Norwiich Norfolk
Sub-registration Mancroft
ED 17 Household schedule number 165
Piece 1217 Folio 202 Page Number 25
Household
Names Aged
Mary Ann Sutherland 65
Maria Sutherland 32
Henry Sutherland 23
James D Sutherland 11
John H Sutherland 5
Ann M Sutherland 2
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No, transcribe, not cut and paste.
It doesnt look to be the same family units to me.
Rachel Emily Sutherland b sept 1/4 1861Norwich.
If Joseph was b mar qtr, i dont think its possible to have sprogged Rachel too.
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I have just amended your post bubylauj
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Looking at the 1891 census, it is not clear that Mary Sutherland is Joseph Gooch's mother.
They are separate households altogether.
I am wondering if Mary is actually unrelated, within her own household she does nor describe herself as "head" but rather as "mother", followed by a string of children, the youngest ones of which could not possibly be her own children.
Here is the transcription
1891
16 Queen Hungary? Yard, West Wymer
Joseph Gooch 30 butcher bn Norwich
Sarah 32 wife
Joseph 6 son
Alfred 4 son
Bertie 1 son all bn Norwich
17 Queen Hungary? Yard
Maria B Sutherland 64 mother single charwoman
Annie M 30 dtr single silk winder
Eliza A 24 dtr single machinist
Ernest G 8 son
Alice M 6 dtr
Anna P 4 dtr
Lily H 3mths dtr
John Drak 41 visitor single shoemaker
all bn Norwich
It looks as if Annie gave the info and relationships given are all in relation to her.
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Given his occupation, this 1881 might be worth looking into.
What is stated cannot be correct - Joseph Amos cannot possibly be a son!
1881
1 Thornham Green West Ham
Albert Amos 24 carman bn Norwich
Sarah 21 bn London
Alberta 3
Lillian 1
Joseph 22 son Butchers Assistant bn Norwich
(he isn't Sarah's brother- likely marriage shows her to be nee Vincent but I haven't checked with childrens' births to check mmn as such)
Modified : - No, he can be ruled out, as he is on later censuses (when we already have Joseph Gooch) as Amess.
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The groindex has a Joseph Gooch born in Norwich Jan - March 1861.The mother's maiden name has been left blank which may be an indication of illegitimacy. It would be well worth obtaining his birth.cert to obtain his mother's name as if she subsequently married he may be recorded under her married name in the censuses you have not located.
William
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oh i see now thank you for pointing it out, ancestry had put Annie and Eliza down as gooch and when you clicked on Maria it said children names and listed Jospeh after looking at the image of the 1891 census i can see it looks like two different households.
PS i will work on learning to transcribe properly.
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thank you i will order a birth certificate.