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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Kincardineshire => Topic started by: Liviani on Thursday 05 October 17 02:04 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone,
Been researching a new branch lately. Need some assistance on where to go with one, the names are bothering me. Here's what I have so far;
My 3x great-grandmother is a Marian Gordon. Alternative spellings for her name are; Mary Ann, Marion, Mary and others. She was born abt 1815, St Cyrus and died aged 87, 1901 in Johnshaven. She married an Alexander McArthur (1812 - 1891) in 1838, Benholm.
On her death cert her parents are named as; Charles Gordon a Quarrier and Ann Jeffray. On searching for a marriage record for a Charles Gordon and Ann Jeffray I only find one similar marriage on SP;
GORDON
CHARLES
MARGARET JAFFRAY/
23/11/1811
253/
20 346
Benholm
There is another entry for the same marriage for St Cyrus. I have looked at the OPR image and it states that Charles of was of St Cyrus and Margaret of Benholm.
So my question is.. is 'Ann' named on Marian's death cert really 'Margaret' as shown above? I wonder if 'Margaret' was perhaps a 'Maggie Ann/Margaret Ann'. I've had other branches where the Margaret and Ann were interchangeable as first and middle names. I'm just looking for some validation in case I've missed something.
Alexander McArthur and Marian have 11 children that I've been able to find, they are;
Colin 1838
John 1839?
Charles 1840
David 1842
Mary 1845
Margaret 1847
Jemima Davidson 1848 (my 2x great-grandmother, she marries a Jonathan Beattie)
Alexandrina Bain 1852
Elizabeth McLaren 1854
Alexander 1857
William Duncan 1858
All born Benholm. There appears to be some sort of naming pattern as Alexander Snr's father was Colin McArthur. Alexander Snr was born; Musselburgh, Midlothian.
1841 census there is;
(FreeCen)
A '45' year old Ann Jaffray, a Fish Carrier living in Johnshaven, Benholm. She is living with a 2 year old Callum McArthur. Could 'Callum' be Colin b.1838? Alexander and Marian's first child? and is Ann his grandmother?
In another household in 1841 there is the following;
A '20' year old Marion McArthur living with a 1 year old Charles McArthur and a Margaret Gordon who is a female servant aged 17. I do not know where this Margaret Gordon fits in yet but possibly Marion's sister? I feel that Marion's age here is incorrect for whatever reason. I know they were rounded, but 20 seems way out.
Given that my Marion married Alexander in 1838 she would've had the McArthur surname by 1841.
I have no idea where husband Alexander is in 1841.
Here they are in 1851;
(FreeCen)
Fore Street, Johnshaven. Alexander, 39, is a salmon fisher, wife is 'Marin', 33. They are with the children; Collin, Charles, Marin, Margaret and Jemima.
1861
Alexander is here, a salmon fisher, still at Fore Street with 'Marey' and David, Margaret, Alexander and William.
In 1871 the family are still at Fore Street, Johnshaven. However Alexander is missing from this census again. ??? Marion is down as 'Mary' here.
I'm trying to pin down Marion/Marin/Mary Ann's et al birth. According to the 1851 census she was born in St Cyrus.
There is a couple having children in St Cyrus around this time. Charles Gordon and Margaret Jaffray/Jeffrey. There appears to be 9 children born between 1812 and 1829.
Is this my Marian?
GORDON
MARIAN
CHARLES GORDON/MARGARET JAFFRAY
F
03/12/1815
267/
10 203
St Cyrus
The dates are very slightly out but I've learned not to trust the ages in census too much, but something just isn't sitting right with me with this. Specifically the Margaret and Ann discrepancy. If anyone could help pin this down I'd be really grateful.
Many thanks,
Liviani.
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On SP 1841...
MCAURTHER CALLORNE ::)
1841
2
253/ 6/ 9
Benholm, Kincardine
I actually downloaded it to find out & he's CALLOM i.e. a mixture of Malcolm (Callum) & Colin ;D :-\
PM me your email (with a link to this thread please) & I will send it ;)
Annie
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Hi Liviani ,
These names all rang a bell , I researched this liine about 10 years ago.
I'll dig out the relevant folder and have a look.
ev
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when did she die and who was the informant?
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Alexander McArthur(1811-1891) and Marian Gordon(1815-1901) have 11 children that I've been able to find, they are;
Colin 1838-1926 married(1869) Jessie Soutar(c1847-1911)
John 1838 b.31st Oct. 1838 , baptised 16th Dec. 1838 Benholm , nothing more on
John , did wonder if John and Colin are the same person :-\
Charles 1840-1921 married(1871) Janet Burness(1845-1934)
David 1842-1924 married(1868) Margaret Fettes Mackie(1852-1903)
Mary(Marion) b. c1845 , on the 1851 Census , no further information.
Margaret 1847-1928 married(1868) James Caird(1835-1891) My line.
Jemima Davidson 1848-1938 (Your 2x great-grandmother, she marries a Jonathan Beattie)
Alexandrina Bain 1852-1938 married(1875) William Ferrier(1846-1887)
Elizabeth McLaren 1854-1929 married(1874) Robert Canegie Black Mackie(1852-1945)
Alexander 1857-1944 married(1880) Mary Laing Watt(1857-1926)
William Duncan 1858-1940 married(1882) Helen Sherret Mackie(c1855-1940)
I've added dates for the McArthur family , need to look out the next folder to get further back.
ev
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Marion McArthur died July 10th 1901 Johnshaven , age 87 , parents Charles Gordon(Quarrier) and Ann Gordon m.s. Jeffray , informant Robert Mackie son in law.
2nd Marriage for Charles Gordon to Elizabeth Caird ?
1841 Census(All born Kncardineshire)
Sea Greens , St Cyrus , Kincardineshire.
Charles Gordon 45 stone quarrier
Elizabeth Gordon 35
Helen Gordon 6
James Gordon 4
Alexander Gordon 6mo
Death Charles Gordon pauper , 29th Sept.1867 , age 75 , married to Elizabeth Caird.
Parents David Gordon fish cadger and Christine Gordon m.s. Reith.
Undertaker signed certificate.
Charles Gordon , baptised 14th Jan. 1791 , Banchory Devenick Kincardine(shire) , parents David Gordon and Christian Riach.
ev
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PM me your email (with a link to this thread please) & I will send it ;)
Annie
Hi Annie, many thanks for this. Have done so. Really appreciated.
when did she die and who was the informant?
Marion McArthur died 10th July 1901 in Johnshaven. Informant was Robert Mackie, Son-in-Law.
Alexander McArthur(1811-1891) and Marian Gordon(1815-1901) have 11 children that I've been able to find, they are;
Colin 1838-1926 married(1869) Jessie Soutar(c1847-1911)
John 1838 b.31st Oct. 1838 , baptised 16th Dec. 1838 Benholm , nothing more on
John , did wonder if John and Colin are the same person :-\
Charles 1840-1921 married(1871) Janet Burness(1845-1934)
David 1842-1924 married(1868) Margaret Fettes Mackie(1852-1903)
Mary(Marion) b. c1845 , on the 1851 Census , no further information.
Margaret 1847-1928 married(1868) James Caird(1835-1891) My line.
Jemima Davidson 1848-1938 (Your 2x great-grandmother, she marries a Jonathan Beattie)
Alexandrina Bain 1852-1938 married(1875) William Ferrier(1846-1887)
Elizabeth McLaren 1854-1929 married(1874) Robert Canegie Black Mackie(1852-1945)
Alexander 1857-1944 married(1880) Mary Laing Watt(1857-1926)
William Duncan 1858-1940 married(1882) Helen Sherret Mackie(c1855-1940)
I've added dates for the McArthur family , need to look out the next folder to get further back.
ev
Brilliant, thanks for this ev. I can see it was Elizabeth that married a Robert Mackie (who was the informant on Marion's death cert). I can now begin to add all these spouses to my tree.
Marion McArthur died July 10th 1901 Johnshaven , age 87 , parents Charles Gordon(Quarrier) and Ann Gordon m.s. Jeffray , informant Robert Mackie son in law.
2nd Marriage for Charles Gordon to Elizabeth Caird ?
1841 Census(All born Kncardineshire)
Sea Greens , St Cyrus , Kincardineshire.
Charles Gordon 45 stone quarrier
Elizabeth Gordon 35
Helen Gordon 6
James Gordon 4
Alexander Gordon 6mo
Death Charles Gordon pauper , 29th Sept.1867 , age 75 , married to Elizabeth Caird.
Parents David Gordon fish cadger and Christine Gordon m.s. Reith.
Undertaker signed certificate.
Charles Gordon , baptised 14th Jan. 1791 , Banchory Devenick Kincardine(shire) , parents David Gordon and Christian Riach.
ev
That's fantastic. Thank you ev. It does seem like Charles Gordon re-married to Elizabeth Caird. It seems we are distant cousins! ;D
Does anyone think that Margaret Jaffray/Jeffrey is actually this Ann that is recorded on SP in various indexes?
On SP. Charles Gordon and Margaret Jaffray have children in St Cyrus between 1812 - 1829. Then Charles Gordon and Elizabeth Caird are having children in St Cyrus between 1835 - 1846. So it appears Margaret (or Ann?) Jaffray died between 1829 and 1835.
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If she really was Ann Jaffray and not Margaret Jaffray I would have thought the McArthurs would have named a daughter Ann.
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If she really was Ann Jaffray and not Margaret Jaffray I would have thought the McArthurs would have named a daughter Ann.
I think you're right. The McArthurs do have a child named Margaret born 1847. Although, there is an 'Ann Jaffray' living with Colin McArthur in 1841. I do have a feeling that it's more likely to be 'Margaret Ann' or similar.
Thanks for noticing this.
EDIT:
Ann Jaffrey is in the 1861 census. Age 74, a hemp spinner. Mid Street, Benholm.
Other members of this household are;
Ann Gordon, 38, niece
William Stot, 1
Elesabeth McArter, 6
Definitely the same family.
Now because Ann Gordon is here as a niece, I think that Ann Jaffrey is perhaps Margaret Jaffrey's sister? And maybe the son in law, Robert Mackie got the wrong end of the stick when informing of Marion's death?
In 1851 Ann is living with a David McArthur aged 8. He is a lodger. This matches up with the David McArthur I have in my tree as Alexander McArthur and Marion Gordon's son.
Also, this Ann Jaffrey is down as 'unmarried' in 1861. I do feel Robert Mackie got the names mixed up or he (and possibly others) thought that Ann was actually Marion's mother when in fact it was his sister Margaret? Thoughts everyone?
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Could this be Ann Jaffray?
http://www.burness.ca/p608.htm#i6077
Baptised at Benholm on 19 August 1788. Parents John Jaffray and Margaret Burness.
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JAFFRAY
ANN
84
MMN FRAZER
1872
253/ 12
Benholm
. (6 credits)
Go on. You know you want it!
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JAFFRAY
ANN
84
MMN FRAZER
1872
253/ 12
Benholm
. (6 credits)
Go on. You know you want it!
Done.
Image is quite grainy and can't fully make out everything for certain but..
Ann Jaffray, Hemp Spinner, West End, Johnshaven.
Parents, John Jaffray (Flesher) and Jean (I think?) Frazer.
Informant is either Chas. or Colin McArthur - neighbour.
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John Jeffray / Jean Fraser marriage 14th Dec. 1780 Benholm Kincardine(shire).
Margaret Jaffrey baptism 11th Nov. 1790 Benholm Kincardine(shire) , parents John Jaffrey and Jean Fraser.
ev
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John Jeffray / Jean Fraser marriage 14th Dec. 1780 Benholm Kincardine(shire).
Margaret Jaffrey baptism 11th Nov. 1790 Benholm Kincardine(shire) , parents John Jaffrey and Jean Fraser.
ev
Brilliant, thank you.
Ann is the McArthur children's great-aunt and Margaret's sibling.
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Hello,
I'm hoping to build upon this chain, don't mean to hijack the thread. I'm looking for the parents of Margaret Gordon (Edwards) my 3rd great grandmother. She married William Edwards, a good 20 years her senior. Her census returns state she was born in Banchory about 1793 and passed in 1869 in Old Machar, Aberdeen. The only record that seems to fit in the OPRs is a Margaret Gordon born to David Gordon & Christian Raich May 26, 1793 at Banchory Devenick. Unfortunately her son didn't seem to know the names of his grandparents as listed on her DC. I'm obviously trying to make a verifiable connection!
I saw ev's post and thought I'd reach out to see if ev or anyone else knows more about the David Gordon / Christian Riach family.
Marion McArthur died July 10th 1901 Johnshaven , age 87 , parents Charles Gordon(Quarrier) and Ann Gordon m.s. Jeffray , informant Robert Mackie son in law.
2nd Marriage for Charles Gordon to Elizabeth Caird ?
1841 Census(All born Kncardineshire)
Sea Greens , St Cyrus , Kincardineshire.
Charles Gordon 45 stone quarrier
Elizabeth Gordon 35
Helen Gordon 6
James Gordon 4
Alexander Gordon 6mo
Death Charles Gordon pauper , 29th Sept.1867 , age 75 , married to Elizabeth Caird.
Parents David Gordon fish cadger and Christine Gordon m.s. Reith.
Undertaker signed certificate.
Charles Gordon , baptised 14th Jan. 1791 , Banchory Devenick Kincardine(shire) , parents David Gordon and Christian Riach.
ev
Thanks,
Lyle