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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: Neilok64 on Thursday 05 October 17 22:30 BST (UK)
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Hi my x2 Great Grandfather William Howard 1850-1921 b Hale,Widnes,Lancashire married a Charlotte Tenyall(?) 1851-1921 b Peckham Kent,i'm struggling with anymore information on Charlotte mainly because I'm not even sure of the spelling of Tenyall,I was told it could be Tinniel,Tennell and other versions,in the 1901 census there is a Thomas Teynall b1889 Wandsworth staying with Charlotte and it has him down as her nephew but not in the 1911,just wondering if anybody has come across the name Tenyall or it variations.
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I can't see anything either - no marriage and no registration for the births of the children. Very odd.
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Thanks for replying Groom,yeah same with me that's why I thought it must be the spelling of the name,I trawled through old work house,prison records from the time but with no luck,I live up north so I'm not 100% about old areas of London kent and surrounding areas thats why I put it on.
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Do you have their marriage, otherwise how do you know that Charlotte's name was Tenyall?
How do you know that Thomas Tenyall was Charlotte's nephew - he is down as nephew to the head of the house, so could be the son of William's sister who perhaps married a Tenyall.
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I don't have their marriage but Charlotte shows as Charlotte Howard in the later census,even on of their children named one of their children lotte(charlotte),It shows them both as Tenyall in 1901 ,searches on William howard show him with a Charlotte Tenyall later Howard
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According to the names of the children in the 1901 census, it looks to me that Charlotte's maiden name was CARD. There is a marriage for William HOWARD to Charlotte CARD M Qtr 1876 at Liverpool (8b/268)
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Thanks maddy but I've not come across that family,this is 1891 census from a screenshot
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These are the children in the 1901 census
Mary Ann HOWARD mmn CARD 1876 D Qtr Prescot (08B/631)
William HOWARD mmn CARD 1881 S Qtr Prescot (08B/686 )
Rebecca HOWARD mmn CARD 1886 S Qtr Prescot (08B/690)
Thomas HOWARD mmn CARR 1889 S Qtr Prescot (08B/645 )
1901 census Gladstone St Widnes
William Howard 50 Hale, Lancashire (Gas Works stoker)
Charlotte Howard 50 Peckham
Mary Howard 24 Widnes
William Howard 19 Widnes
Thomas Howard 11 Widnes
Rebecca Howard 14 Widnes
Thomas Temfall Nephew 12 Wandsworth, London
John Gilland Boarder 26 Tarbock, Lancashire
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Can I ask where that screen shot is from, the actual census image of 1891 (not a transcription) shows them all as Howard?
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Hmm puzzling that one,I haven't seen that one before,Prescott is a registration district and sometimes people would put born Widnes lancashire and registered in Prescot
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Neil, I'm not with you - you said you haven't see the 1901 census that maddy has given you - it is the one you quoted in your first post with Thomas born Wandsworth 1889.
Are you actually looking at images of the census or transcriptions?
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Just images Groom on my ancestry tree,i was sent a family Gedcom file with part of it done and decided to have a little look into it all,looks like I'm going to have to review it
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As all the children have a mother with a maiden name Card, it does look as if there is something wrong.
In case you don't know the GRO site now shows mother's maiden name.
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Just to add also that Charlotte is on the 1911 census as born in Peckham London (not the one in Kent). ;)
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I didn't and thanks for your time,it's just a hobby to me Groom and I'm no expert.
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If you need any more help, just ask. It's a hobby to all of us on here, but be warned it soon becomes an addiction. ;D
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Thanks for your help Maddy,it's cleared up a few things and I didn't even know there was two Peckhams ;-)
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Just to add also that Charlotte is on the 1911 census as born in Peckham London (not the one in Kent). ;)
Could she have lied slightly about her age I wonder?
1871 RG10; Piece: 734; Folio: 70; Page: 5
Charlotte Card aged 17 so born about 1854
Servant
born: London, England
Civil Parish: Camberwell
Town: Peckham
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If you need any more help, just ask. It's a hobby to all of us on here, but be warned it soon becomes an addiction. ;D
Not wrong there!!! ;D ;D ;D
Just in case you're interested neil, many Lancashire Parish records are online
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk
This looks like William's baptism
Baptism: 27 Apr 1851 St Mary, Hale, Lancashire
William HOWARD - Son of Joseph and Anne, born: 20 Mar 1851, Abode: Hale
Father's Occupation: Labourer
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Yeah i use the Lancashire ian-opc site quite often and yes you are right about ages I've been looking into my butler ancestry from county wexford and most of the women have a different birth year to their husbands but when they moved over to England they all seem to put the same year born as their husbands ;-)
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It may be a good idea to post a snippet of the original 1901 census image with Thomas "Tenyall" name on the Handwriting and Deciphering Board. People there are very good at interpreting what the name could be.
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I'm wondering if there is confusion re the two Peckhams - the one in South London and the one in Kent. This looks as if it is Charlotte's family in 1861 - especially as the mother is Rebecca and Charlotte called a daughter Rebecca.
1861 RG 9; Piece: 485; Folio: 73; Page: 9 West Peckham
Phillip Card 44 broom maker? Hartfield, Sussex
Rebecca Card 42 East Peckham, Kent
Sophia Card 14 Hadlow, Kent
Frances Card 12 Hadlow, Kent
Charlotte Card 10 Hadlow, Kent
Alice Card 9 West Peckham, Ken
John Card 8 West Peckham, Ken
Rebecca Card 6 West Peckham, Ken
Hester Card 4 West Peckham, Ken
Elciea Card 3 West Peckham, Ken
Thomas Card 1 West Peckham, Ken
James Cogger 49 boarder Totters Cliffe, Kent
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The same family are in the 1871 census, but Charlotte isn't there - so she could well be the servant I found elsewhere in 1871. There are 4 more children, making about 13 in all!
RG10; Piece: 934; Folio: 5; Page: 3
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Marriage in Liverpool 28 Feb 1876
William Howard driver Father Joseph Howard driver
Charlotte Card Father Philip Card Coachman
Father's name would seem to match with the Kent Peckham although his occupation does not.
William
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By 1881 Philip was a widower and living with his daughter Esther and her husband John Oddy in Croydon. He still says he is a broom maker, but in 1871 he was an Ag Lab. Not unusual for occupations to be "upgraded" on wedding certificates though is it?
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1871 census has a Charlotte Card b 1850 Plaxtol, Kent as a servant in Everton, Liverpool. There is a baptism 10 March 1850 Plaxtol, Kent -parents Philip and Rebecca.
William
Quite agree about "upgrading" of fathers' occupations, Groom.
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1871 census has a Charlotte Card b 1850 Plaxtol, Kent as a servant in Everton, Liverpool. There is a baptism 10 March 1850 Plaxtol, Kent -parents Philip and Rebecca.
William
Quite agree about "upgrading" of fathers' occupations, Groom.
That's a really good fit, William, as Plaxtol is only about 4 miles from West Peckham. Better than the one I found for her in 1871 and would explain how she met her future husband if she was in Liverpool.
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Quick update(I've been busy with work)
I did a bit of reserch with the Charlotte Card Plaxtol and found the right family on somebody's tree (searched google),father Philip mother Rebecca and some of the children named aswell and this Charlotte is showing she married a William Howard but the tree says she died in 1891 :-( so unless this is a error it doesn't fit.
Yes in the 1911 census it says Peckham,London but searching for William in the 1891 census it shows his wife as Charlotte Card b Peckham kent :-( totally confused now.
Thanks for helping
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I think that it is West Peckham, Kent rather than Peckham London, as everything else fits. Even though I live in the SE of England, I'd only heard of the London one until a few years ago
If you look at the actual image of the 1911 census, it doesn't say Peckham, London it just says Peckham, so I don't know where you are getting your information from.
I'm 99% sure we have the right family and that the tree you've found has the wrong death.
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A possible death, not too far from where she was in 1911?
Charlotte Howard
Death Age: 71
Registration Date: Dec 1921
Prescot Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 747
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:D Thanks Groom,I've let my ancestry account lapse,had a break from it all then got back into it because a friend started researching my tree so we have a shared tree,I can search but not see all information and on the details(not a certificate)of Williams wife Charlotte it said Peckham,London(maybe a error).
I've found some contact information from the Philip Card tree so I might e-mail them to ask about Charlotte and I do agree it could be the wrong death year.
You are correct on my tree I have her year of death as 1921,Prescot is a Registration district
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:D Thanks Groom,I've let my ancestry account lapse,had a break from it all then got back into it because a friend started researching my tree so we have a shared tree,I can search but not see all information and on the details(not a certificate)of Williams wife Charlotte it said Peckham,London(maybe a error).
I guess that whoever has that on their tree has never heard of East and West Peckham in Kent so just assumed it was the London one. It definitely doesn't say London on the census image.
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I'm sorry, I think I might have added to the confusion, I was looking at the 1911 census but only the transcription on familysearch which says Peckham London. Should have checked the original before I posted in reply #13 :-[
Good finds groom and William!
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I'm sorry, I think I might have added to the confusion, I was looking at the 1911 census but only the transcription on familysearch which says Peckham London. Should have checked the original before I posted in reply #13 :-[
Good finds groom and William!
That's ok Maddy I had seen it somewhere aswell,probably done the same as you.
Just goes to show you need to check the original documentation ;-)