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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Monmouthshire => Wales => Monmouthshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Tiffany84 on Monday 09 October 17 15:00 BST (UK)
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Hi, I am a new member and wonder if anyone can suggest a way forward. I know from my grandfather that my great-grandfather was Thomas Harris from Honiton and my Great-Grandmother was Emily Stoneham of Shirenewton in Monmouthshire. Through Ancestry I have traced Emily back to Shirenewton and identified her family(father George Stoneham). In 1881 census she was a domestic servant out of position.
By 1891 she is in Manchester (Stretford) with Thomas Harris (wrongly transcribed as James) and by now she has 2 children born in Monmouth. However, I cannot trace a Thomas Harris to fit in with Honiton and his given approximation of Birth 1863. There are a few Thomas Harris's around that period but when I follow them through the census to the 1891 census it does not gel. Thomas is shown as a 'Hatter' when in Manchester although my Grandad said he was a dock-worker. Following the stay in Stretford the family relocated to Ringley near Bolton where they settled and where my Grandad was born and raised. There is an added complication in that Emily Stoneham had a sister Elizabeth who also seemingly married a Harris. In this case it was Edwin Harris and he was born and lived in Monmouthshire. I cannot trace Thomas prior to the 1891 census. I cannot trace a marriage for Emily and Thomas and no baptism records for any of their children prior to their arrival in Ringley. At this point they became regular church-goers and I remember Grandad telling me this. All the subsequent children were baptised and I can trace records. I am beginning to wonder if Harris truly was his given surname or if he had adopted that name to hide some trouble etc in his past. It seems a coincidence that he had the same surname as his sister-in law's husband. Also it seems odd that I cannot trace the marriage and baptisms of his children, considering he was a religious person. I cannot trace my Great-grandfather back before 1891.My search is made more difficult because of my inability to access any Monmouth parish records. I wonder if he travelled up to Wales and met Emily whilst she was in-service. I really have come to a dead-end and wonder if anyone can suggest a way forward?
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Hi and a warm welcome to Rootschat!
Just to get some facts in front of us, here is the 1891 census.
You say "wrongly transcribed" as James, but if you look at the image it clearly says James, so if there is any error, it is not with the transcription!
1891
4 Atkinson Street, Stretford
James Harris 28 Hatter bn Devon Honiton
Emily 28 bn Monmouthshire
William 9 bn Monmouthshire
Annie 6 bn Monmouthshire
Henry 2 bn Manchester
Eliza 3 mths bn Stretford
William Brown 31 boarder bricklayer bn Canada
William Smith 47 boarder bn Manch.
and 1901
130 Prospect Place Outwood LAncs
Tom Harris 38 Railway Tunnel hewer bn Honiton
Emily 37 bn Monmouthshire
William 18 coal hewer bn Monmouthsh.
Ann 16 bn Monm.
Henry 12 bn Ardwick Lancs
Eliza 10 bn MAnchester
Edith 8 bn Manch.
Tom 5 bn MAnch.
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Hi There , thanks so much for replying ! We are on the same records! I at first thought it said 'James' too but then looking at it and with aid of magnification it can be read as 'Thomas' too.
He also worked at times as a sewage worker. The 'Hatter' bit seems a tad strange as most of his employment seemed to be manual.
Just to clarify further, Outwood is a small sub-district of Ringley The two are one and the same! Both are near Bolton in Lancashire. My Grandad's Family settled there.
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Hi
Welcome to Rootschat :D
There is a James Harris born Payhembury (not far from Honiton) in 1863 who would be worth checking out not least because he has a brother called Edwin you can see them in Payhembury in 1871 RG10/2045/45 Pg 10
Jan
Can't be him as he remains in Devon 1891-1911
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for which children have you found GRO Index entries & thus Birth Certs ?
So far I've only found Edith ...
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
HARRIS, EDITH STONEHAM
GRO Reference: 1893 M Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 08C Page 982
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What I an finding strange is that I cant see a birth reg for the earlier children. Can see Thomas in 1895 and Edith in 1893, but not those before that.
(Snap Lostris - we are following the same train of thought!)
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Just a thought - maybe a complete red herring, and the age is way out ....
....but is this guy worth a second look?
1881
Temperence Hotel, Newport MONMOUTHSHIRE
Lots of boarders (as you would expect at a hotel) incl:
Thomas J Harris, 48, married, commercial traveller, bn Stonehouse Devon
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Emily is also a puzzle?
I can see a marriage for her father, George:
June qtr 1857
Chepstow Registration District vol 11a, page 25
Stoneham, George
+ and, on the same page +
Painter, Eliza
Sunday, Mary Ann
And Birth Registrations for Matilda and William (Emily's siblings), with Mother's Maiden Name of Painter. But nothing for Emily?
1881 census
RG11/5218/19/8
Shirenewton, Monmouthshire, Wales
Stoneham, George Head Widower M 56 Ag Lab b Thornbury, Gloucestershire
Stoneham, Emily Daughter F 18 b Shirenewton
Stoneham, Matilda Daughter F 16 b Shirenewton
Stoneham, William Son M 14 b Shirenewt
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Nor for Elizabeth (age 9 on 1871)
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But there is Selina (age 3 on 1861 census, with parents George and Eliza)
Birth
JUl/Aug/Sep 1857
Chepstow
ref 11a 2
Selina Stoneham mmn Painter
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Ah! 1871 census
Shirenewton, Monmouthshire
Stonham, George Head Widowed M 43 b Colne, Wiltshire (Calne?)
Stonham, Elizabeth Daughter F 9 b ?Newton, Monmouthshire
Stonham, Emma Daughter F 8 b ?Newton
Stonham, Matilda Daughter F 6 b ?Newton
Stonham, William Son M 5 b ?Newton
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V554-X6B
And an elusive birth!
June qtr 1863
Chepstow RD vol 11a, page 5
Stoneham, Emma
(On FreeBMD, but not on GRO?)
Indexed on GRO as Stoncham!
MMN Painter.
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What I an finding strange is that I cant see a birth reg for the earlier children. Can see Thomas in 1895 and Edith in 1893, but not those before that.
Eliza is recorded as Harries:
HARRIES, ELIZA mmn STONEHAM
GRO Reference: 1891 M Quarter in BARTON UPON IRWELL Volume 08C Page 721
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Hi Janan, Thanks for the input but I still feel the 'James' is a bit of a red-herring. I never heard my Great- Grandad referred to as anything but 'Tom Harris' by my Grandad. Also, he is shown on all census lists after the 1891 census as Thomas. If you look carefully at the 1891 census it initially looks like James but then you can see it could be Thomas. Thanks for your input anyway. Much appreciated!
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I'm not entirely understanding your logic re the James/Thomas thing. He was always known as 'Harris' but you suspect his real name was something else, so why not his forename too?
I have to 100% agree that it says James. Looking at other entries, including the surrounding pages, the T's are definitely formed differently to the letter J.
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Not at all unusual for someone to be known by another first name. My grandmother was called Gertrude by everyone, I only found out at her funeral (and later when I started doing FH) that she was actually registered as Alice Gertrude.
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Possible birth for William
William Harries 1883 Monmouth mmn Calcom (bad transcription?)
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As I am new to RootsChat I am not yet sure how I reply to individual posts/queries linked to my thread. So to everyone who has contributed to date Thanks so much. As I do not know how to link to specific comments in order to reply to each one, I have drawn together some further information.
Jomot suggests perhaps my Great grandfather was using a false Christian name too? If this is the case I am truly at a dead-end as I have been told only that he was Tom Harris from Honiton Devon. That name and origin have been used consistently since the 1891 census (again on 1901 and 1911 census records. It is always what my Grandfather believed too.
The background to my Great grandmother is slightly more clear, although I do feel she may have been 'Emma' rather than 'Emily' as she later became known . The Birth of an 'Emma' Stoneham is shown in Chepstow 1883 Vol 11a p5 which seems to be her. There is no trace of a marriage for either an 'Emma' or and 'Emily' either in Monmouth or Manchester. There is the additional red-herring of the marriage between her sister Elizabeth and an Edwin Harris.
The children of the Tom Harris and Emily Stoneham are.....
William Henry 1883 born Monmouth. There is a record for 1883 Bedwellty Monmouth Vol 11a p119 but I am not sure if this is 'my' family.
Annie (1885) born Monmouth. Again, there is a record of an 'Annie Harris' born 1886 in Newport Monmouthshire vol 11a p245. Again I cannot be sure if this is the correct ancestor or not as mother's maiden name is not given.
Matthew Henry, born Ardwick Manchester.
Eliza, (Ardwick Manchester.)
Edith, ( Ardwick Manchester)
Tom, (Ardwick Manchester) who was the first of the baptised children. He was baptised 1895 at Holy Trinity, Prestolee. This is where all the following children were baptised. Prestolee, Outwood and Ringley as referred to in census documents and Birth and Baptism records are virtually synonymous.
Sidney, baptised 1897
Frederick, baptised 1898
Albion, baptised1899
Hector, baptised 1903
Ellis, baptised 1903
Robert and Eli, who were twins and who were born and died in 1903 were also baptised in 1903.
As I said in my original post all the clear-cut records seem to be post 1891 and also all the actual 'religious' involvement also seems to increase from 1895 onwards I still have a lot of mystery surrounding this and it is causing me sleepless nights pondering it all. Any help would be much appreciated!! Who was my Great grandfather? Tom Harris or not?
Thanks folks!
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A transcription of Shirenewton parish records can be accessed via DustyDocs
Baptisms to George, labourer, and Eliza Stoneham
Selina bp 2 Aug 1857
Charles bp 26 Feb 1860 - buried 18 Nov 1860 age 10 months
Elizabeth bp 9 mar 1862
Emma bp 14 June 1863
Matilda bp 9 April 1871
William bp 9 April 1871
Elizabeth noted as deceased on these 2 baptisms
Eliza Stoneham buried 28 Feb 1871 aged 37 after coroner's inquest
From the marriages
4 May 1857 George Stoneham 33, labourer, father John, cordwainer & Eliza Painter, 23, father William, labourer, witnesses Morris & Maria Bryant
20 Dec 1881 Edwin Harris, labourer, no father noted & Elizabeth Stoneham, father George, labourer, witnesses Emily Stoneham ad Thomas Harris.
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"Annie (1885) born Monmouth. Again, there is a record of an 'Annie Harris' born 1886 in Newport Monmouthshire vol 11a p245. Again I cannot be sure if this is the correct ancestor or not as mother's maiden name is not given."
From https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp, there were two Annie Harris registrations in Newport in 1886, one in Jun Q mmn Davies and the other in Dec Q mmn Symonds. The one on p245 that you quoted is the June registration.
From the same site, the William Henry has mmn Chivers
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just found some more baptisms but in Chepstow. All children of George & Eliza, James, Mary, Charles baptised on 13 Sept 1871 in the Union Workhouse, noted as from Shirenewton
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20 Dec 1881 Edwin Harris, labourer, no father noted & Elizabeth Stoneham, father George, labourer, witnesses Emily Stoneham ad Thomas Harris.
That's a good find as it shows Emily and Thomas weren't married in 1881.
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I'm afraid it looks as if we are looking at a couple who never married! There are no more Harris/Stoneham marriages until 1910.
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A tree on Ancestry has the Edwin who married Elizabeth Stoneham and they give his father as Selvanns Harris birth 1840 Pontypool, Monmouthshire, Wales, mother Ellen. Brother Thomas born 1855 Newport.
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on the register for Edwin's marriage, George Stoneham's name had been written in the space for the father of Edwin. It is crossed out, but no other name written in.
Emily was the only one to sign the register, the others all marked.
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Thanks so much Osprey, this is the record I have of Thomas being in Monmouthshire at all! I had more or less decided they never married. I also noted that 'Emily' was shown on the 1881 census as a domestic servant' out of position/post. I know that when girls got pregnant in service they were often dismissed and I wondered if perhaps this was the case. However, it still leaves several gaps for me to fill. You are all so helpful! So glad I joined this site!
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I was Just checking this line of reasoning out Osprey. On thinking about it, I remembered that I too have the father of Edwin noted as Selvanns as noted by 'groom' (Thanks groom) And he has a brother Thomas Harris. So, it is highly likely to have been his brother who witnessed the marriage of Elizabeth and Edwin. In searching today, I have discovered
another Thomas Harris on the 1891 census who is aged 36 and lives with his father aged 81 also Thomas Harris and a widower. He was born in Shirenewton. However, I was always led to believe my Great- Grandfather came from Honiton, as shown on all the latter census documents and as told to me by my Grandfather too.
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Matthew Henry, born Ardwick Manchester
Is this the answer?
WAITE, MATTHEW HENRY mmn STONEHAM
GRO Reference: 1889 M Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 08C Page 744
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Thanks ''alpinecottage' although you have demonstrated that I have the wrong birth records for William Henry( 1883) and (Annie) 1885 it eliminates the records which I thought related to these children of Emily and Thomas.
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Also
WAITE, ANNIE MATILDA STONEHAM
GRO Reference: 1884 D Quarter in CHEPSTOW Volume 11A Page 2
WAITE, SIDNEY FREDERICK STONEHAM
GRO Reference: 1886 D Quarter in CHEPSTOW Volume 11A Page 2
WAITE, WILLIAM HENRY STONEHAM
GRO Reference: 1882 D Quarter in CHEPSTOW Volume 11A Page 3
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Interesting that I can find no further trace of Matthew Henry Waite until his marriage to Nora Evans at Whitefield on 20 May 1914. Their first child was named Tom (1915), and a daughter, Edith, was born in 1920.
Google maps tells me Whitefield & Ringley are about 3 miles apart.
Do you have Matthew Henry Harris after 1911?
Matthew Henry Waites DoB from the 1939 and his death registration in 1970 was 15 Dec 1888.
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Also
WAITE, ANNIE MATILDA STONEHAM
GRO Reference: 1884 D Quarter in CHEPSTOW Volume 11A Page 2
Baptism October 1884 at Itton, Parents Samuel & Emily of Brook Cottages, Itton
WAITE, SIDNEY FREDERICK STONEHAM
GRO Reference: 1886 D Quarter in CHEPSTOW Volume 11A Page 2
Baptism 22 Oct 1886 at Caldicot (born 29 Sep). Parents Samuel & Emily of Caldicot
WAITE, WILLIAM HENRY STONEHAM
GRO Reference: 1882 D Quarter in CHEPSTOW Volume 11A Page 3
Baptism 7 Jan 1883 at Itton. Parents Samuel & Emily of Itton
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Hi Jomot
Thanks so much you have certainly shed some light on my Ancestry! As soon as I saw the name 'Waite' I had a 'lightbulb moment' going back to my childhood when my grandmother told me she was writing to someone called 'Waite' who was my Grandfather Harris's relative. I also have some vague recollection of a mention of someone being in Canada but I cannot be sure. So, there must have been some awareness in the family that some of my Grandfather's brothers and sisters were in fact only step brothers/sisters. However, no-one has mentioned this to me ever,despite the fact that I was adult before my grandfather died and he knew of my interest in Family history. My own parents have similarly shown no awareness of the Waite connection.
I have checked out the birth records you quote for Annie Matilda Waite, and William Henry Waite and have found their births in Monmouthshire. I was unaware of the existence of Walter Sidney Waite !1882) and wonder what happened to him subsequently? I wonder if he died quite young because Emily who is then using the name Harris (post 1891) has a Sidney Harris in1897 and a Frederick Harris in1898. So, perhaps these two names were chosen because the Sidney Frederick Waite born in Monmouthshire was by then deceased ?
I note that there is a William Henry Waite born in Chorlton Manchester in 1889 vol8c p744 which would seem to fit. However, this suggests that Samuel Waite also came to Manchester at this time. Or, he had died and a pregnant Emily had come alone, and perhaps around this time she met Thomas (James?) Harris?
Using your Waite info I have established that Annie Matilda Waite married a John Henry White in 1906 in Prestolee a sub-district of Ringley and on the outskirts of Outwood where the family appear in 1911. Incidentally, William Henry Waite is a witness to the wedding. Annie's father is given as Samuel Waite (deceased). I have looked briefly today but as yet I have not found his death. In tracing him he seems to be Samuel Fred Waite born around 1860 in Caldicot, Monmouthshire, where one of the children (Walter, Sidney) is Baptised. Incidentally, where did you locate the baptisms of Annie Matilda, Sidney Frederick and William, Henry Waite, as I have not so far traced the Baptism records? The parents of Samuel Fred are Eliza and Matthew, so a pattern is showing with chosen names.
I still have not established if Eliza, whom I have as born Ardwick area of Manchester around 1891 is a Waite or a Harris. (do you have any idea?)
Now, I suspect I can stop looking for Thomas (or James) Harris in Monmouthshire. It would appear that the connection is in Manchester somehow. I now need to try to trace his Birth in Honiton and see if I can find him before the 1891 census. I hope this is less tricky now I have some of the jig-saw thanks to you!
You queried Matthew Henry's whereabouts and he does appear on the 1911 census. By then Tom Harris is widowed and they are living in Outwood which is between Ringley and Whitefield where he later marries
Thanks again for all your help and if you have any further flashes of genius your input would be welcomed.
Thankyou!
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Glad it was of help.
I think you've got a couple of names muddled up though, the child in 1882 was William Henry, not Walter Sidney.
Possibly the one you didn't know about was Sidney Frederick - born 1886, and he died in 1889 in Salford (recorded as Sydney Frederick).
The child born in 1889 was Matthew Henry, not William Henry.
Per my earlier post, Eliza's birth is recorded as HARRIES:
HARRIES, ELIZA STONEHAM
GRO Reference: 1891 M Quarter in BARTON UPON IRWELL Volume 08C Page 721
My query about Matthew Henry was whether you have traced him as HARRIS anywhere after the 1911 census, but the answer seems to be no - because he reverted to Waite.
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I have always been told my Great grandfather was called Thomas Harris and was born in Honiton Devon about 1863. I know my Great- grandmother was Emily Stoneham from Shirenewton.
On the 1891 census they are both in Manchester and he is shown as a Hatter.
However there is some dispute whether the entry is for a James Harris or a Thomas Harris. I have always been told his name is Thomas. The other handwriting in the census entries on the same page seems to vary with the name Thomas being written in different ways. Similarly the census compiler seems to complete letter J in different ways too. Any advice?
I am trying to trace my Great-grandfather back to Honiton but now I am struggling as to whether I should be seeking James or Thomas as I have always been led to believe he was named
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Have you found a marriage for them. Did he marry as Thomas or James
What name is he under in 1871 and 1881
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=780354.0
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There is no confusion as to what is written on the original image in the 1891 census. The name is James Harris. His wife Emily born Monmouthshire as are William age 9 and Annie age 6.
If you look at the last family on the page there is a son Thomas Mellor with the h in Thomas very clear (the m looks more like an N though :)
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However there is some dispute whether the entry is for a James Harris or a Thomas Harris.
Agree with crisane. The name is James.
I looked at you other thread, and I don't see any dispute, there is general agreement that the name as written on the page is James :-\
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Thanks for the replies ! The two never married I don't think. However, on both the 1901 and 1911 census which follow he is shown as Thomas.
I can't find any earlier census entries which seem to fit.
There is a James Harris born 1862 in Honiton but I cannot find him shown in 1871 or 1881.
I still wonder why he switches to Thomas on the later census entries?
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In my opinion it was the enumerator who mistranscribed the information from the original return into his books. The occupation may have orginally been 'Hewer' not 'Hatter'.
Debra :)
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Hi Dundee, Never thought of that. As I said in a previous post the occupation of Hatter seems out of sync with his employments in other census entries. I will plod on with trying to find either a James or a Thomas who I can follow from around 1883 in Honiton to 1891 in Manchester.
Thanks!
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New thread re the 1891 census Thomas/James question
Topics now merged
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In the same way, if the writing was particularly bad on the original return, then Thomas may well have been read as James and recorded as such on the enumerators schedule.
I wouldn't get too hung up on the 'James' on that one census. Keep an open mind.
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lizdb
Thanks will do!
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To all who have helped me to date. I am wondering if I am now getting too fanciful in my efforts to trace my Great-Grandfather who I know as Tom ( Thomas ) Harris. I can only trace him back to the 1891 census in Manchester where the entry reads as James Harris. He gives his name as Thomas on subsequent 1901 and 1911 census documents always place of Birth is given as Honiton around 1864.
My Great Grandmother was Emily Stoneham from Shirenewton in Monmouthshire. Thanks to the help of Rootschat members I have now established that prior to 1891 she had a relationship with Samuel F Waite and that her first 4 children bear the name of Waite. On the 1891 census she is in Stretford Manchester and with James Harris who is shown as a Hatter. Prior to this she has remained in Monmouthshire. However, the 'James' and the 'Hatter' related to my Great-grandfather may have been errors made when the enumerator transcribed his notes. This could explain there being an anomaly of name and also the unusual occupation, given that always subsequently in returns my Great-grandfather's occupations are more manual in nature.
In following up leads (so excellently provided) I tried to establish the whereabouts of Samuel F Waite in 1891. I was trying to work out if Emily left him and travelled to Manchester and quickly met Thomas (James) Harris or if she has travelled with Samuel Waite. I think she was pregnant at the time as the final' child recorded as 'Waite' is born in Manchester. If I could establish whether my Great-grandfather was at any point resident in Monmouthshire this may give me a pointer but as yet I cannot trace him prior to 1891. However, in my various searches I have come across a criminal record for 1891 for a James Harris (also known as Samuel White who is convicted to 4 months in Glamorgan. Incidentally, Samuel Waite shows his origins as Glamorgan. On the record of the day In June 1891 when he is convicted there is also a fellow prisoner named as a Thomas Harris who is acquitted.
I can't put all this together in my head but feel there are a lot of coincidences floating around here! Hence, my saying am I being too fanciful?
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If it's the same prison record that I'm looking at, that James Harris was only 19.
James Harris
Age 19
Birth year 1872
Occupation Hawker
Year 1891
Date 30 Jun 1891
Court Town Hall Cardiff
Place Glamorgan
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Hi groom, thanks for the reply! The record I have does not give any age. It says :
James Harris otherwise called Samuel White- attempting to steal from the person. Before convicted of felony 2 indicments. convicted to 4 months . It is taken from the England and Wales criminal Registers 1791-1892 Wales Glamorgan. It also says Midsummer Quarter Sessions at Cardiff 30th day of June.
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Unless there were two James Harris tried on that day, it looks like the same person so probably too young to be yours.
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Thanks for that! I am beginning to think I have met a dead end. I cannot find him before the 1891 census. Also, although I accept the 1891 census says 'James I only know him as 'Thomas' and his origin as Honiton. It may be that he changed either his name or where he was born (or both) on the census documents after 1891. Or I am just not locating the right documents!
It is a mystery whether she left Samuel Waite and fled to Manchester where she met My Great-grandfather or if she fled to Manchester with him (and this could then have prompted a change of name) However, either way it looks as if she was pregnant as she named her child born in Manchester Waite.
Thanks for letting me know re the age difference. As I say my source isn't showing any age. You have to admit though there are quite a few coincidences.
Of course, it still could be him, I suppose. Her sister Elizabeth was married to an Edwin Harris who lived in Monmouthshire. He has a younger brother Thomas who is 10 years younger than Emily. It may be that she left Samuel Waite with someone like this, who was her junior in years. As I said in my long previous post my mind goes round and round all the possibilities! Thanks again
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Interestingly the Samuel Fred Waite born Neath, Glamorgan 1858, living in Caldicott, Chepstow in 1881 with father Matthew and mother Eliza that you found, doesn't appear after 1881, either dead or alive, that I can see.
Jan
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There is a burial on 1 Oct 1910 at Llanfihangel Llantarnam of a Samuel Frederick Waite aged 56 of 43 Llandowlais Street. This would put his birth at c 1854, but I cant seem to find a birth that would match other than 'your' Samuel in 1858 and an earlier one in 1846.
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If that is Tiffany's Samuel, which seems likely, I wonder where is he is hiding in 1891 and 1901 ???
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Hmm, I'm not sure if it is him though.
Living at the address in 1911 is another Samuel Waite, who appears to be Samuel Josiah Waite baptised 30 Jan 1877, s/o Samuel & Ann of Tintern Abbey, Wiredrawer.
The GRO suggests Ann's maiden name was Stuart, and a Samuel Waite aged 26 married Ann Stuart at Attercliffe, Yorkshire in 1874. This would put his DoB at around 1848, so most likely the 'other' one.
The fact that he died at the same address as Samuel Josiah suggests the burial is the older Samuel Frederick, but the age is obviously a long way out :-\
Added: Slight amendment - in 1911 Samuel Josiah (b 1877) is at a different house number than the 1910 burial.
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Hi Janan and Jomot
There is a record for a Fred Waite for 1891 showing him as a boarder but it is strange that the Samuel should be dropped. He is shown as born Llantrisant in 1859 so this may be him. However, I agree that can't find Samuel F. after 1881.
Re death. When Emily's daughter Annie marries in Prestolee England in 1906 the marriage details show father as Samuel F Waite deceased. This may be accurate or may be just what she had been told. If this is accurate then it suggests the 1910 death is another person. So grateful for your input. This is really complicated! Tif
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It certainly is complicated!
I wouldn't have problem with Samuel being known by his second name but I think the Fred Waite in Llantrisant in 1891 is probably the Frederick Waite born 1860 in Bridgend district.
Jan