RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Devon => Topic started by: JennMorgon on Monday 09 October 17 20:58 BST (UK)
-
I am researching Josiah Darke (born 1813 in Bitton Gloucester) who married Ann Wells (sometimes recorded as Wills) in 1846 in East Teignmouth. Ann Wells/Wills was the daughter of John Wells/Wills and Frances Newman - she was born in Teignmouth in 1820. I have her parents marriage details and her baptism details. In 1846 there was a marriage for Ann but the groom appears to be recorded as Jonus Dark ! I have all census returns from 1851 for Josiah Darke but cannot find the 1841. I have a subscription for Find My Past but the 1841 census for Josiah Darke (or possibly Dark) doesn't seem to be there. As his working life was connected with railways I think he may have been in Devon during 1840's building the Great Western Railway - and presumably met Ann there. If anyone has access to the 1841 census I would be really grateful if they could locate Josiah Darke (possibly listed as Dark)
Many, many thanks in advance
Jenn Morgon
-
The marriage was 31 May 1846 at Chudleigh Parish Church, after registrar's certificate.
Jonas Dark, full age, bachelor, farm labourer of Dawlish. Father: Samuel Dark, labourer.
Ann Wills, full age, spinster, of Dawlish. Father: John Wills, ship's carpenter.
-
Brilliant help finding the marriage details. Where did you find them ? Even stranger now as Josiah's father was definitely called Samuel and he was a labourer in Bitton near Bristol. Ann Wills father was called John but not sure that Jonus is Josiah !! Date of marriage ties in with birth of first child who is registered with the father's name of Darke and mothers of Wells.
Many thanks for finding the marriage details - it will certainly help - even if it rules out this particular marriage
Thank you again
Jenn
-
Hi,
What was Josiah's occupation? I ask as there is the following on FindMyPast:
Jefferis Hill, Hamlet of Hanham, Bitton, Gloucestershire (HO107/361/15/9/13)
Josiah Dark Age 30 Stonecutter Born Gloucestershire
Sarah Dark Age 35 Born Gloucestershire
Eliza Dark Age 6 Born Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Dark Age 2 Born Gloucestershire
Did he have an earlier marriage?
I can not see any other Josiah Darke/Dark that fits.
Hope this helps.
Kind regards
David
-
Josiah Darke was baptised (aged 2 months) on 14 Nov 1813 at Bitton.
Parents: Samuel (a labourer) and Jenny, of Hanham.
-
You can see the 1846 marriage for yourself on Findmypast.
-
Josiah Darke in 1851 is back in Hanham working as a railway labourer. His wife is called Ann and she was born in Teignmouth. Two children - also born in Teignmouth,.
-
Hi,
What was Josiah's occupation? I ask as there is the following on FindMyPast:
Jefferis Hill, Hamlet of Hanham, Bitton, Gloucestershire (HO107/361/15/9/13)
Josiah Dark Age 30 Stonecutter Born Gloucestershire
Sarah Dark Age 35 Born Gloucestershire
Eliza Dark Age 6 Born Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Dark Age 2 Born Gloucestershire
Did he have an earlier marriage?
I can not see any other Josiah Darke/Dark that fits.
Hope this helps.
Kind regards
David
Caroline Dark was baptised at Bitton on 24 Oct 1841.
Parents: Josiah (a mason) and Sarah, of Jefferis Hill.
Birth reg of Caroline Dark mmn Fox, Dec qtr 1841 Keynsham.
She was buried at Bitton on 8 Oct 1843, aged 2.
-
I see that Josiah and Sarah are indeed a different couple - still in Bitton in 1851 when he is 39.
HO107/1944/127/20
-
You will see now why I was going around in circles. I missed the Jonus and Ann marriage on Find My past - and have now downloaded it and saved it as its still a possibility. The other family with the stone mason are definitely not the right ones. It doesn't help matters with the change of spelling of surnames Darke (and possibly Dark) and Wills (and Wells in every child's registration with GRO.
Thank you for your help -
Jenn Morgon
-
Hi
Ann Wells 20 seems to be with Frances Wells 46 IND nbic
in French Street Teignmouth HO107 220 11 4(?) page2
That is VERY close to the railway station ( 50-100 yards = my estimate )
Ray
-
My thoughts Ray, especially as he was a railway labourer in subsequent census returns and the GWR was being built in early 1840's. It's possible that he is listed on 1841 census with a variation on the name Darke - but I just couldn't find it using resources available on Find My Past
Jenn
-
1851 HO 107 2443 44 339 Chepstow Monmouth , Davies Court
Josiah Darke 37 Rail Lab Hanham
Ann Darke 30 Teignmouth
John 3 Teignmouth
Anne 1 Chepstow
Ray
-
The 1851, and subsequent census all show he worked for railways as a labourer - and later as a nightwatchman. My thinking is that he moved to Devon as part of the building of GWR. The first children of the marriage, and the wife Ann, are listed consistently as being born in Teignmouth Devon. Indeed, in one census it actually say Tinmouth. I was born, and grew up in Exeter - so I realised that Tinmouth is the local way of saying Teignmouth. I live in North Wales now - but can clearly visualise Dawlish and Teignmouth railway lines
Jenn
-
He was a farm labourer at the time of the marriage - so it looks as though he moved to the railways whilst in Devon, rather than moving to Devon for the railway.
I see that John Wells Darke was baptised at East Teighmouth on 5 March 1848 - parents Josias (timekeeper on the railway) and Anne, of East Teignmouth.
-
That makes a lot of sense. Thank you so much for your help
Jenn Morgon
-
Still not sure if I have the right marriage. Jonus Dark could not sign his own name on the marriage certificate in 1846 but Josiah is working as a time keeper on the railways by 1848. I would have thought a job as a time keeper would have demanded a basic degree of literacy... I am thinking now, that maybe Josiah and Ann simply did not marry !
Jenny
-
My strong instinct would be that it is the right marriage - it's in the right place and at the right time, and these names (especially Dark) are not common. There does not appear to be a rival couple Jonas and Ann Dark to be found in later documents. Also the names for both fathers are a match.
Bear in mind that Josias and Jonas (it doesn't say Jonus) can look very similar in manuscript. Perhaps the curate simply made an error in writing up the register. The bridegroom does not seem to have been literate so would not have corrected the error. And I don't think poor literacy would be inconsistent with learning to use a railway clock.
Perhaps try tracing the witnesses, Francis Weeks (I think) and Jonas Adams, to see whether they can be linked to the couple?
-
There are certainly very compelling reasons to believe that this is the correct couple. It is also possible that Josiah had hurt his hand and was unable to sign the register. I will try investigating the witnesses and will see if there is any sign of Jonus Dark of Dawlish with a wife called Ann in subsequent census returns. It is interesting that the baptism record for both bride and groom confirm that their fathers name. I will also try and find out what a time keeper on the railway actually did. Thank you again for your help, it really is appreciated as I am fairly new to family history research
Jenn
-
The marriage witness Jonas Adams turns out to have been the sexton, so was probably a witness in that capacity rather than as a person connected with the couple.
In 1851 he's 57 and living at Clifford St, Chudleigh: HO107/1870/427/12
Pure speculation... but perhaps his presence was why the curate got the name "Jonas" into his head :)
-
Jonas is quite an unusual name and that kind of misunderstanding is more than possible. Although the bride could sign her name - it doesn't mean that she would have been a skilled reader - so may not have noticed the mistake when she signed the register - especially given the bridal nerves. I think I am going to accept this as their marriage until/unless I find out otherwise. I have done a search on Find My Past to see if there is a Dark / Darke family - with a wife called Ann in other census returns. Nothing has come up - but I feel the FindMyPast search engine is not as easy to get results as Ancestry. I haven't got a current ancestry subscription to check.
Thank you once again for your help and guidance.
Jenn Morgon
-
"The marriage witness Jonas Adams turns out to have been the sexton . . . . . "
and Jonas had a son named Jonas.
-
If Jonas had a son named Jonas then the marriage is for two different people. Thank you everyone for your help.
Jenn Morgon
-
Oh no.. Just realised you meant the sexton had a son called Jonas !!!
Jenn