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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: colee on Tuesday 10 October 17 21:55 BST (UK)
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Hi there
I'm trying to trace a Samuel or Joshua Yates from Lancashire (probably the Bedford/Leigh area) who would have been born about 1870. He emigrated to New Zealand and had 4 daughters, including a set of twins. Any clues how I might find them?
Many thanks!
Emma
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Any information on his parents?
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His father could have also been Samuel, as I was originally given the info that they were both called Joshua, but discovered today from my great grandmother's marriage cert that the father was actually called Samuel, which means the son might have been too I guess!
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Was the man b 1870ish the father of your great grandmother then?
Is there no marriage for gg grandad?
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https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQH7-LYW baptism ?
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If you know he had 4 daughters including a set of twins have you looked for their birth registrations on NZ BDM's? their birth certificates would give his first name.
What exactly are all the details on your greatgrandmother's marriage certificate?
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Welcome to Rootschat
About what year did Samuel go to New Zealand?
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Just throwing these in to the mix, found on Lancashire OPC
Baptism
28 Sep 1868 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Samuel Yates -Parents Samuel Yates & Elizabeth
Born 14 June 1868
Address - Everton
Occupation - Bricklayer
Baptised by R. J. Fairclough Curate
Register of Baptisms 1868, Page 266, Entry 2122
Source: LDS Film 1656564
Baptism
1870 Holy Trinity, Bolton, Lancashire
Samuel Yates - Son of Samuel Yates & Elizabeth
Address - 35 Noble St.
Occupation - Brick layer
Baptised by H.Haworth
Register of Baptisms 1870 - 1871, Page 52, Entry 412
Source: LDS Film 1966123
Same parents who have moved from Liverpool to Bolton and the first Samuel died with the next son given the same name?
Added: This family look to be in Everton Liverpool in 1871 with sons James 4 and Samuel 1, all born Liverpool
RG10 Piece 3811 Folio 115 Page 2
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In 1881 they are still in Liverpool but there is no son Samuel age about 11 however there is another son Samuel age 4!
Elizabeth's maiden name is Gaskell, from the marriage record.
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The Samuel born 1870 died age 4 March 1/4 1874 W. Derby so not your Samuel. Where did you get his birth date from?
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Wow thank you for your help, what an amazing response and website, a distant relative I 'met' through Ancestry recommended it and told me how good it is!
So my great grandmother was born about 1869. I haven't seen a birth certificate, only census records from when she pops up in Chatham, Kent with William Thomas Butterworth, the father of her 2 children Margaret and Annie (my grandmother). I don't know exactly what's on the marriage cert of Sarah Ellen and her later husband George Thomas Waghorn (I suspect she never married William Thomas but took his name initially) because it hasn't arrived in the post yet, I only know that her father was Samuel Yates. But there was certainly a connection with Bolton so that fits. However, according to Margaret's daughter Margaret Davies who is still alive, the children of Samuel (she thought he was called Joshua) were Sarah Ellen, Joshua, Harold and Emily, which are quite different. But she may not have been quite sure about the names like Joshua.
I don't know when Samuel emigrated, only that the twins came back to visit in the late 1930s when they were grown up. Margaret, who was born in 1930, remembers and has a photograph somewhere which I'm hoping will be unearthed soon! I did look in NZ records for the twins but at the time I was looking via Joshua not Samuel and didn't come up with anything.
All your help is so, so appreciated. I have been looking on and off for about a year now, and got quite stuck. But up until a year ago, I was only aware of the existence of my grandmother, but knew absolutely nothing about her, not even that she was born in Chatham and her parents were from Lancashire. So this is all amazing!
Thank you and for any further ideas you have
Emma
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Late at night here but just as a start to working backwards for others wishing to help
Sarah Ellen Butterworth married George Thomas Waghorn March 1/4 1906 Medway Kent reg dist. vol 2a page 935
They have a daughter Gladys Victoria Waghorn 1907 Medway On the GRO index mother's maiden name Yates.
From the censuses Sarah Ellen says she is born Leigh.
FreeBMD Sarah Ellen Yates birth reg Leigh Dec 1/4 1871. vol 8c page 209.
If the above is the correct birth reg then the GRO index gives the mother's maiden name as Smith.
A Samuel Yates married an Ann Smith Sept 1/4 1871 registration district Leigh vol 8c page 238
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Marriage: 10 Sep 1871 St Thomas, Leigh, Lancashire, England
Samuel Yates - 27, Turner, Bachelor, Bedford
Ann Smith - 21, Weaver, Spinster, Bedford
Groom's Father: William Yates, Deceased, Platelayer
Bride's Father: Peter Smith, Spinner
Witness: George Smith; Mary Graham
Married by Banns by: Moorhouse James
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1851 HO107 Piece 2204 Folio 304 Page 9
Coal Pit Lane Bedford
William Yates 30 ag lab
Ellen Yates 39 handloom weaver Silk
Samuel Yates 7 born Bedford
Thomas R Yates 5 Months
All born Bedford
Birth Thomas Robert Yates Dec 1/4 Leigh mother's maiden name Short vol 21 page 555
Samuel Yates June 1/4 1844 Leigh mmn Short
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1861
Guest Fold Bedford, Lancashire
William Yates Head 38 born Bedford, Lancs Railway Labourer
Ellen Yates Wife 42 born Bedford Silk Weaver
Samuel Yates Son 18 born Bedford Fitter in Foundry
Thomas Yates Son 10
Mary Short Visitor 46 born Bedford Silk Weaver
Harriet Short Visitor 28 born Bedford Silk Weaver
RG9/2800/60/3
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Yates children registered Wigan and Leigh Sub District Culcheth
1844 Samuel Yates mmn Short
1850 Thomas Robert Yates mmn Short
Marriage
William Yates and Ellen Short in 1844 at Tyldesley St. George
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this is feeling exciting
on the 1881 census there is
Samuel Yates 44
Ann Yates 38
Nellie Yates 19
Willie Yates 17
George Fred Yates 16
Emily Yates 10
Rupert Harold Yates 2 - so quite a few name matches - Sarah Ellen must be the Nellie, Emily and Harold, and Sarah Ellen is there on the 1871 census with William and George. but on the marriage info she is listed as from Bedford or living in Bedford? From the census info her birthplace is Bolton, which makes absolute sense as according to my Aunt she used to talk about Bolton a lot.
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There is a possible death for William in 1862 aged 39 Culcheth
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Thomas Robert Yates
Baptism Date: 24 Jan 1851
Baptism Place: Astley, St Stephen, Lancashire, England
Father: Wm Yates
Mother: Ellin Yates
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incredible....
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From www.lan-opc.org.uk
Marriage: 22 Jan 1844 St George, Tyldesley, Lancashire, England
William Yates - (X), of full age, Labourer, Bachelor, Mosley Common
Ellen Short - (X), of full age, Spinster, Mosley Common
Groom's Father: James Yates, Weaver
Bride's Father: Samuel Short, Weaver
Witness: Peter Bent; John Short
Married by Banns by: Jacob Robson Incumbent
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Baptism: 18 May 1811 St Mary the Virgin, Leigh, Lancashire, England
Ellen Short - Daughter of Samuel Short & Ellen
Abode: Bedford
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Hi Colee
I think you have quite a lot to digest for now.
Heather :)
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ABSOLUTELY! Thank you so much!! would add lots of smiley faces but i don't how!
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I was tripping over myself with excitement. When I listed all the teenage children's ages from the census, it was the 1891 census, not 1881 as I mistakenly wrote earlier. There's so much for me to follow up on.. so happy...
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1901
195 New Road, Chatham Kent
William T Butterworth Head 31 born Blackburn Insurance canvasser
Sarah E Butterworth Wife 29 born Bedford, Leigh, Dressmaker
Margaret Butterworth Daughter 10/12 born Chatham Kent
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thank you Heather!
Yes another real challenge is to find out what happened to William Thomas after that. My grandmother Annie was born in Chatham in 1902, and Sarah Ellen married George Thomas in 1906. (Slight mystery also over Bertie and his parentage, although I'm pretty sure he's George's son from what the family says.) According to family folklore, William died in a 'brawl', although I don't know the circumstances, when or where. He had his son John in lancashire, 2 daughters in Kent, then completely disappeared. any ideas? So last definite 'sightings' in 1901/2 when Annie was born.
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1901
13 Maida Road, Chatham
George T Waghorn Head 45 born Chatham Plasterer
Cordelia Waghorn Wife 41 born Rochester
Cordelia A Waghorn Daughter 19 born Chatham Tailoress
Cordelia A Waghorn Daughter 17 born Chatham
Ethel M Waghorn Daughter 11 born Chatham
Gladys V Waghorn Daughter 2 born Chatham
RG13/730/32/3
Wife Cordelia dies in 1901 and leaves £102 10s 1d and administration is granted to George Thomas Waghorn.
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interesting. I think in that case on the 1911 census for Waghorn they may have swapped Berty and Gladys around. Here the ages are listed as Berty 7, Gladys 4. But the word daughter is crossed out and replaced with son. My Aunt also thought that Berty was younger than Gladys. I will try to get their birth certificates I think...
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There is more than one Gladys
Gladys Victoria born 1907 mother's maiden name Yates
Gladys Victoria born 1899 mmn Goodchild death recorded in 1906 Medway aged 7
Cordelia Goodchild married in 1880 Medway and George Thomas Waghorn is on the same page.
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1891
35 Queens Park Road Blackburn
Robert Butterworth Head 46 born Blackburn Insurance agent
Margaret Butterworth Wife 47 born Blackburn
William T Butterworth Son 21 born Blackburn Cotton Weaver
RG12/3406/97
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William Thomas Butterworth
Baptism Date:17 Apr 1870
Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Father:Robert Butterworth
Mother:Margaret Butterworth
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Marriage
11 Jan 1892 Blackburn, Christ Church, Lancashire
William Thomas Butterworth
Age: 21
Bachelor
Weaver
Father:Robert Butterworth Insurance Agent
Address 74 Queens Park Road
Spouse:Catherine Ann Snape
Spouse Age:25
Spinster
Dressmaker
294 Livesey Bank? Road
No father's name given
Witnessed by Richard Butterworth and Hannah Bolton
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1901
107 Hall Lane, Kearsley
Sarah Snape Head 72 born Farnworth
Catherine Butterworth Daughter 33 born Tockholes dressmaker
John Butterworth Grandson 8 born Halliwell
William Butterworth Boarder 24 born Rochdale Bootmaker
RG13/3599/19/30
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1881
16 James Street, Barton upon Irwell
Sarah Snape Head 53 unmarried Cotton Weaver
Catherine Ann Snape Daughter 14 born Withnall Lancashire Cotton Weaver
RG11/3880/134/45
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Baptism: 7 Oct 1866 St Paul, Withnell, Lancashire, England
Cathrine Ann Snape - Dau of Sally Snape
Abode: Withnell
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: Danl. Slyman Incbt.
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Another birth
Georgina Edna Waghorn registered in 1909 Medway Mother's maiden name Yates
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Annie Butterworth registered in 1902 Strood, Kent mmn Yates
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my Ancestry cousin has helped to uncover more of the Yates family who joined Sarah Ellen in Kent, brother Harry, sister Emily and brother William. So I should be able to trace some living Yates relatives in Kent which isn't far from where I am, so that will be interesting.
We have also uncovered Samuel's brother Thomas born 1851, who had 4 children Minnie, Robert, Samuel and George. George may be the supposed mill owner that my Aunt talks about, so it would be great to find out more about him. He seems to have married an Annie Owen, and died in 1966. So there must still be Yates family in Leigh, Lancashire where the family came from which would be fascinating. Does anyone know how I can find their marriage and any children they may have had?
big thank you again
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I've now found that by 1911 George had lost his mother, and he was not living with his father who by then was 60 and living with just his son Samuel. The census also says that by 1911 Thomas only had 2 children still alive, Samuel and I'm presuming George. But I have yet to locate George. I have found a George aged 10 living with an Elizabeth May Yates, Alice and John W Yates in the house of the Greenhoughs, but I'm not sure that it's the right one. Please let me know if you have any ideas about how I can confirm that or not. Thank you!
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I am just trying to clear things in my head with the main Yates family. Samuel c1847 married Ann Smith of Bolton then they moved to Kent sometime after 1891 and before 1901. 1901 and 1911 Ann is down as a widow.
In 1901
39 Ernest Rd Chatham Kent
Ann Yates 49 Widow Bolton
William Yates 27 son Driller in dockyard Farnworth
Emily Yates 18 dau Tailoress Farnworth
Rupert H Yates 13 son apprentice joiner Farnworth
Rupert Harold Yates
Baptised 3 April 1889
at St. John the Evangelist, Deane, Lancashire, England
Father - Samuel Yates
Mother - Anne
FHL Film Number 1538439
Daughter Emily marries a James Coombe and have children Samuel James 1904, Gladys c1907, Lillie c1909
So Samuel born 1844/47 who is married to Ann emigrates to NZ sometime after 1891 and has 4 daughters? Do I have this right?
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1901
38 Lingard street
Thomas R Yates 51 Coal miner leigh
Clara J Yates (nee Skelton) 46 Lands End, Cornwall
Robert Yates 23 cotton spinner Leigh
Samuel Yates 16 cotton spinners piecer Liegh
George W Yates 5 months Leigh
Minnie S born c1876 not with them. Can't see a birth reg for her.
Added: The only birth reg for a Minnie is in June 1/4 1878 and the mmn is Daniels.
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thank you!
that's really really interesting, to see that Sarah Ellen's Mum Ann was down in Chatham too, fantastic discovery!
But I'm not sure it would have been Ann's husband emigrating. I understood that it was one his sons who emigrated, but perhaps it was a nephew instead.
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Hi
yes I thought it must be a Samuel other than Ann's husband. I did look for a Samuel in NZ and births prior to 1916 to a Samuel but the only ones I could see were too early and no births of two girls with consecutive reg numbers. Of course they may have been born after 1916 so not available online (privacy)
If it was Thomas and Sarah's son he didn't leave the country until after 1911.
Clara Jane died Dec 1/4 1905 Leigh reg dist age 48.
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Hi
do you mean Thomas and Clara's son?
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1891
10 March Street, Bedford, Leigh
Thomas R Yates 38 born Leigh Coal Miner
Clara J Yates 34 born Devonshire
Minnie S Yates 15 born Atherton Cotton Weaver
Robert Yates 13 born leigh
Samuel Yates 6 born Leigh
RG12/3085/37
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Minnie Skelton was born 1876 Atherton, mmn Skelton
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Thomas Yates and Clara SKELTON in 1878 at St. John The Baptist Atherton
Marriage: 28 Jan 1878 St John the Baptist, Atherton, Lancashire, England
Thomas Yates - 26, Collier, Bachelor, Wood End, Bedford
Clara Skelton - 20, Mill-hand, Spinster, Off Market St., Atherton
Groom's Father: William Yates, (deceased), Plate-layer
Bride's Father: Robert Skelton, Apparitor
Witness: Richard Rawsthorn; Ellen Dumbell
Married by Banns by: W. Nuttall Vicar
Performed at: St Anne's Mission Church, Hindsford
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Baptism: 24 Mar 1878 St John the Baptist, Atherton, Lancashire, England
Robert Yates - [Child] of Thomas Yates & Clara
Born: 27 Feb 1878
Abode: Wood End, Bedford
Occupation: Collier
Baptised by: W. Nuttall, Vicar
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Baptism: 24 Dec 1876 St John the Baptist, Atherton, Lancashire, England
Minnie Skelton - [Child] of Clara Skelton
Born: 2 Apr 1876
Abode: Market Place, Atherton
Occupation: Mill hand
Baptised by: W. Nuttall, Vicar
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Yes, sorry
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you are so fast, it's awesome
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1881
10 Guest Fold Wood End, Bedford
Thomas Yates Head 29 born Bedford, Lancs Coal Miner
Clara Yates Wife 23 born Devononshire Card Winder in Cotton Mill
Robert Yates Son 3 born Bedford, Lancs
Ellen Yates Mother 64 Widow born Bedford, Lancs
RG11/3802/77/14
I wonder who Minnie is with!
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I bet you'll find out in 10 seconds
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i'm not sure my last post registered - it was a little aside about a witness I noticed at Thomas and Clara's marriage, Ellen Dumbell. My sister is married to a Dumbill, and when I mentioned to him that we had family from around Culcheth, he said he did too. Maybe this is them.... sorry, a digression, this business is impossible it is so easy to get sent off course!
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1871
Barracks, Lidford, Princetown
Robert Skelton Head 52 born Kirkham Civil Guard
Sarah Skelton Wife 44 born Falmouth, Cornwall
Clarah Skelton Daughter 12 born Devonport
Rose Skelton Daughter 10 born Princetown, Devon
Robert Skelton Son 8 born Princetown, Devon
Helena Skelton Daughter 6 born Princetown, Devon
RG10/2144/45/35
1861
By Bridge Road
Lydford, Devon
Robert Skelton Head 42 born Chester? Guard
Sarah Skelton Wife 34
Clara Skelton Daughter 2
Rosa Skelton Daughter 2/12
RG9/1458/62/4
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1881
63 Wealhouse Lane, Chowbent, Lancashire, England
Robert Skelton Head 62 born Chowbent Apparitor
Sarah J. Skelton Wife 54 born Cornwall Cotton Operator
Helena Skelton Daughter 16 born Devon Cotton Operator
Robert Skelton Son 18 born Devon Stoker
Minnie Skelton Grand daughter 5 born Atherton
RG11/3809/64/48
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Death
Sarah Jane Skelton
1885
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 68
Registration district: Leigh
Sarah Jane Skelton
Death Date: 30 Dec 1885
Cemetery: Atherton Cemetery
Robert Skelton
Registration Year:1886
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death:67
Registration district: Leigh
Robert Skelton
Death Date:19 Dec 1886
Cemetery: Atherton Cemetery
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so wonderful to see my family's history unfold in front me...
fascinating to piece together the story of somebody like Robert Skelton and to understand because of his occupation how he ended up in Devon and marrying someone from Cornwall, and then to see him return to Lancashire.
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Spotted this for you to make a note of in case he turns out to be one of yours!
Samuel Yates
Departure Date: 19 Oct 1895
Port of Departure:Plymouth, England
Destination Port:Sydney, Australia
Ship Name:Orizaba
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It looks like Thomas and Clara had 7 children altogether but some died
1878 Robert Yates
1885 Samuel Yates
1891 Wilfred James Yates
1892 Walter Yates
1898 James Rowland Yates
1900 George William Yates
and Minnie Skelton
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Possible deaths :'(
Wilfred James Yates 1891 aged 0 Culcheth
Walter Yates 1893 aged 0 Culcheth
Rowland James Yates in 1898 aged 0 Culcheth
George William Yates in 1902 aged 1 Culcheth
Minnie Skelton Yates in 1900 aged 24 Culcheth
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Clara Jane Yates died in 1905 Leigh aged 48
Clara Jane Yates
Event Type: Burial
Event Place: Leigh, Greater Manchester, England, United Kingdom
Cemetery: Leigh Cemetery
Latitude: 53.49342
Longitude: -2.48071
Death Date: 21 Oct 1905
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Thomas Robert Yates
Event Type: Burial
Event Place: Leigh, Greater Manchester, England, United Kingdom
Cemetery: Leigh Cemetery
Latitude: 53.49342
Longitude: -2.48071
Death Date: 17 May 1917
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How wonderful is that, thank you!
I will go and find them in December when I'm in Manchester, perhaps take my daughter too. Not sure if it's really done on these sorts of sites, but I could post a photo of the gravestone too, sort of like the end of that bit of the trail. there will probably be rather a lot of Yates in that cemetery, I will have to see how many relatives I can positively locate before I go there.
PS I have sent a message to my mother's cousin Margaret asking for any more info about the New Zealand emigration, with the news that Joshua is in fact Samuel. I have been promised a reply over the weekend. Maybe they'll even hunt for the elusive photo of the twins they talk about. So fingers crossed on that one.
Meanwhile, William Thomas still remains a mystery, so if anyone can think of a way of locating someone who died in a brawl, I'd be eternally grateful - not sure i could be any more grateful than I am now, but anyway!!!
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Hi Colee
There must still be lots more to explore!
I will keep looking.
Heather :)
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There is a stone,
https://billiongraves.com/grave/Clara-Jane-Yates/5748520
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WOW - and seems to say in that cemetery there are over 300 Yates if I've read that right
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How wonderful is that, thank you!
I will go and find them in December when I'm in Manchester, perhaps take my daughter too. Not sure if it's really done on these sorts of sites, but I could post a photo of the gravestone too, sort of like the end of that bit of the trail. there will probably be rather a lot of Yates in that cemetery, I will have to see how many relatives I can positively locate before I go there.
PS I have sent a message to my mother's cousin Margaret asking for any more info about the New Zealand emigration, with the news that Joshua is in fact Samuel. I have been promised a reply over the weekend. Maybe they'll even hunt for the elusive photo of the twins they talk about. So fingers crossed on that one.
Meanwhile, William Thomas still remains a mystery, so if anyone can think of a way of locating someone who died in a brawl, I'd be eternally grateful - not sure i could be any more grateful than I am now, but anyway!!!
Some sad local history here I am afraid
I notice from previous posts that your family were coal miners at 'Bedford', Leigh (not 'Manchester'), Lancashire.
In August 1886 there was a large explosion at Bedford pit, sadly resulting in the deaths of 38 miners. There is a memorial to the miners in the same Leigh cemetery you mention. I looked at the list of those who died and couldn't see any Yates or Skeltons, but I expect they would have known some of the deceased and their families, as they lived and worked in the same area at the time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedford_Colliery_disaster
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-35560819
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Gosh that's really really interesting, thank you so much. Their lives were full of tragedy. Certainly one of the Yates was a miner, most of them were in the cotton industry it seems. But I am curious to find out why my great great grandmother and 4 of her 5 children left Lancashire and came down to Kent. A change in the industrial landscape may have had something to do with it. An Ancestry relative (the one who recommended Roots to me) also discovered on the 1939 register that a Charles Yates (my grandmother's cousin) was working in the Docks minding the Butterworth automatic tank cleaning machine. William Thomas Butterworth was my great grandfather whose death after 1903/4 we can't find - so maybe there's a hint there to explain the migration.
I will read up on the history of the mining tragedy and certainly look out for the memorial when I visit the cemetery.
Actually, thinking about all of this, I may not be able to wait until December to go to the cemetery, I may have to visit in a couple of weeks at half term!
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Hello,
I am hoping someone can point me in the right direction. I found this book five years ago in a used bookstore here in Vancouver, Canada. I am hoping to return it to the family to which it belongs.
Here is what I know:
William Yates was awarded this book as first prize for regular attendance to Bedford Wesleyan Sunday School in Leigh, Lancashire on October 11, 1896. I know this as there is a sticker in the front that says so.
A few pages in, there is a newspaper segment titled “Another Leigh Sacrifice.” Prívate Thomas Yates of the 16th Manchester Regiment was missing in battle as of March 21, 1918.
He lived at 18, Mill-Lane, Leigh.
He enlisted in August 1917 and went to France in December.
He was the youngest of four sons, all soldiers.
One was wounded and another was gassed.
He was 23 when he died.
He worked at the Kermishaw Nook Pit, Tyldesley.
On the Roll of Honour at Bedford Wesleyan School.
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Hi Grace
What a great mission to try and find his family. I have located Thomas and William on Ancestry, but don't think they are on my branch of Yates.
This is the initial info I have found on Ancestry: The family living at 18 Mill Lane was headed by Alfred Yates, an underground coal miner, married to Mary Alice. Their children in the 1901 census were William aged 18 who also worked in the mines, Margaret aged 15, Annie aged 13, Joseph aged 11 (listed as an underground miner in 1911), Fred aged 8 (listed as a brewer in 1911), Thomas aged 6 (a mill worker in 1911) and Alice aged 3. They were all born in Leigh, Lancashire.
William wasn't listed in the 1911 census which is why I've quoted the info from the earlier census.
I will let you know when I have located Alfred's specific line, then can move forward to any living members of that part of the family.
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Hello Grace. You could notify Lancashire Family History & Heraldry Society and other local family history societies about the book.
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Thank you so much for your help! I have contacted the Lancashire Family History & Heraldry Society as well.
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The Liverpool & South West Lancashire Family History Society has a Leigh Group who may be able to help www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk on the website go to Groups then Leigh and there is a contact form.
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Hi Grace
I have been digging around a bit to see what I can find on line.
Alfred's father (the grandfather of the boys you are looking for) born in 1823 was James Yates, a silk weaver (his father thomas a joiner) who married Margaret Guest in 1845.
The records showed 6 children from this marriage born in Leigh/Westleigh -
Anne (born 1845 in Leigh Union which was the workhouse I think?),
Elizabeth (born 1848),
Thomas (born 1850),
James (later a collier, born in 1857),
then Alfred born in 1859.
Margaret I think then died in 1861, she wasn't on the 1861 census, but I have ordered her death certificate to check the details and see what happened to her.
Alfred's father James married again, to Sarah Ann Brooks, and they had another 7 children also in Leigh: Henry, Ellen, Peter, Elizabeth, Willie, Charlie and Joseph the last one in 1889. Sarah Ann was a widower by the census in 1891. Sarah Ann might have died in 1918 aged 77.
Sadly so far I haven't been able to trace forward any of these families on Ancestry, but other more experienced researchers may have other sources they can use. There was a possible death record for Alfred's wife Mary Alice (nee Ray, born 1858) in 1947 aged 88.
After Alfred's mother died, he lived with his brother Richard and wife Catherine Hyde at 18 Thomas St. Richard had twins Margaret and Ellen, Elizabeth, Alice, Annie and one other I haven't located yet.
Maybe any more details anyone could add about say Mary Alice who lived to an impressive 88 it appears, or step mother Sarah Ann, might lead us to some branches of the family where there are living relatives. Any ideas or help for Grace would be fab!! thank you in advance.
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Reading reply #75 I calculate James Yates' eldest child was born 44 years before his youngest! Anne b. 1845 was old enough to be her brother Joseph's grandma!