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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: Tessa Spencer on Thursday 12 October 17 06:52 BST (UK)
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Ellen may have been born illegitimately to Henrietta Wesley in Coventry Workhouse in 1865.
In 1886 she emigrated to Albany, Australia with husband Frederick George Coles (I have no details about his origins. His occupation on his son's marriage certificate in 1919 is Seaman, Merchant Service). I can't find a marriage for them.
In Australia she had children Rose Florence b.1891, William Henry b.1893, Frederick George b.1896 and possibly another with first name initial H. In 1898 he left her husband and bought the children back from Albany to London via Cape Colony. A family member says she returned to her own family in Coventry.
Her son Frederick George's military record says she was living at 66 Junction Rd, Coventry in 1916, but had also lived at 31 Weston St. I can't find her on any census.
In 1901 her children Rose and Frederick were boarding with Mrs Maycock, launderess, in Ryton-on-Dunsmore. Her other son William Henry was in Coventry and Warwickshire Hospital. But where was she?
I'm also interested in her husband. Where was he born and did he stay in Australia? I found a Frederick George labouring in Coolgardie, Australia in 1903 and 1906. Did he join the Merchant Navy?
I'd be very grateful for any help.
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Where & when did Ellen marry, do you have her on census in England
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If Ellen was the illegitimate daughter of Henrietta Westley, in 1871 she was probably living 34 St Johns Street, Coventry, described as niece of William (b.1817 Coventry) and Sarah Westley, but could have been their granddaughter. Living in the same house were William and Sarah's children, one of whom was Henrietta. Also what looks like Ellen's brother William.
This is the only census record I have found but I'm not convinced it is right.
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Also should have said I can't find a marriage for Ellen and Frederick
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I think that 1871 census could be right with Ellen & William wrongly described as Niece/Nephew. In 1881 Henrietta had son William with her also another son Thomas bn 1873.
Her son Frederick George's military record says she was living at 66 Junction Rd, Coventry in 1916, but had also lived at 31 Weston St. I can't find her on any census.
Have you checked these addresses in 1911 or looked for Henrietta's sons on this census ;) :)
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The 1898 incoming passenger list has an H Cole and a E Cole, both adults, and then R Cole, W Cole and F Cole.
Do we know who the H Cole was that returned with them?
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May be useful in the future if you dont already have it;
Marriage;
Sept 1852, St Michael and All Angels, Coventry
William WESTLEY, 35, Widr, Weaver, abode Little Park Street, Father JOHN, a Grocer
Sarah HAMMERSLEY, 27, Widow, Father Thomas RUSHTON, a Engineer
Witnesses, Skears Rew WESTLEY, Ellen RUSHTON
(FreeREG)
Williams 1st Marriage is there also 1841
Henrietta Christened St Michael, Coventry;
ELLEN 7 Sept 1868*******
THOMAS 21 Aug 1868, birth 22 May 1868
WILLIAM GARLAND Westley 21 April 1871, birth 4 Nov 1870
Have you ruled this out for Ellen?
Name: Ellen Henrietta Coles
Death Place: South Australia
Registration Year: 1926-1930
Registration Place: South Australia
Page Number: 379
Volume Number: 496
Ellen Henrietta Coles
Birth: unknown
Death: Jul. 8, 1927
Burial:
West Terrace Cemetery
Adelaide
Adelaide City
South Australia, Australia
Plot: RC West Gnd
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BDM WA birth
COLE Rose Florence parents George / Wesley Ellen @ Albany 409 1891
COLE William Henry parents George / Westley Ellen @ Albany 1197 1893
COLE Frederick Charles parents George / Westley Ellen @ Albany 2099 1896
Where do you see father as Frederick George COLES?.
The birth certificate, 1896, will ask for details of parents origins, and will be useful to you.
Use http://www.bdm.dotag.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/default.aspx
to find WESTLEYs in WA .
The Daily News 14 Feb 1899 p3
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/82400107?
...incident mentions crewman George COLE......
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Frederick George Coles is named as William's father, on his marriage certificate when he married Lena Rose Richards in Swansea in 1919. Frederick George is described as Seaman, Merchant Service
I found Frederick and Ellen travelling to Australia in 1886 on cargo steamship 'Elderslie' out of London going to Albany. I guess Frederick planned to be a gold prospector and indeed Coolgardie where I think I found him was a prospecting area. One scenario is that Ellen returned to England as the children were ill and this could be borne out by the fact that William was in hospital in 1901 in Coventry. The travel manifest does say that H Cole was a farmer and F Cole was a lady so perhaps this is not the same family at all. The older members of the family said that Ellen left her husband in Australia and returned to UK, with the suggestion that she had had enough of the hard life there.
Thanks for the background for Ellen. If it IS her death in Australia she must have returned to be with her husband. I will look for her travel documentation.
Yes I have looked for her other children, but I can't find them on the 1911 census. In 1916 in Frederick George's military record (Ellen's son) his sister Rose is said to be living at 30 Springfield Rd Coventry and his brother William was living in Berkwell. I have yet to search for Ellen at Junction Rd in the 1911 census. Not sure the quickest way to do that.
Thanks for all your efforts
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You can search FindMyPast 1911 by address.
Ancestry using this link http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=2352
Only complete - Lived in with Coventry then put street name in keyword.
You can also just add a surname if you want to try & eliminate
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It is important to be faithful to the way you see information recorded, and that you are giving a forum to use.
The children are registered at birth, WA, as COLE, not COLES.
Rose and Fred, census 1901, are COLE not COLES.
If these children were separated early in life it is possible there would be a variation in how they spell their name.
William Henry in the Coventry and Warwickshire Hospital........can you locate that more clearly please...I am not seeing it. How is he named....age, birthplace.
Frederick George's military record....how is mother named.....Mrs COLES. Mrs Ellen COLES, Mrs E COLES.....what......exactly as recorded please.
What was Frederick George's address at enlistment.....same as for mother?
Is there an address for him when he is discharged?
Who are the witnesses on his marriage certificate?
They went to Australia, 1886..........so, no children for five years, then three children in seven years?
"...I found Frederick and Ellen travelling to Australia in 1886 ..."
How do you see them named on the "Elderslie".......exactly as you see the names please.
You need to see the 1896 birth certificate.
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William Henry in the Coventry and Warwickshire Hospital........can you locate that more clearly please...I am not seeing it. How is he named....age, birthplace.
1901 ref RG13/2910 f176 p40
Stoney Stanton Road (continued) St Marks, Coventry
William Coles -Patient- age9- born Australia
f175 p37 indicates it is the Coventry and Warwickshire Hospital
This looks like Rose on the last census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWZK-51P
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Hi, I cannot believe I’ve found this thread. I’ve been searching for information on my Grandfather Fredrick G Coles for years. I had painted a Remembrance memorial to go into an art exhibition for him and suddenly thought I wonder if Ellen did move back to Coventry after his father died on the way back to England. My father always thought she stayed behind in Australia. I did have info from Australia archives on where his father worked on the railways IN Albany. I also had old photos of his brothers (children I think)who moved to near Swansea.
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George Cole from National archives
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My father was always told, they were born in Plantagenet WA near Albany, Ellen left his father. The father decided to return to England with the 3 children but died on the boat. When they reached England that must have been the mix up in Surnames as we are Coles, but should have been registered on return as Cole. My father never knew Ellen had returned to England. I remember visiting Rose as a child in Coventry.
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Sorry I am lost on this post, How do,I find out who is researching this family tree?
🙏
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It is Tessa Spencer, the person who made the first post. :)
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Tessa Spencer has been notified by email of your replies to this topic, they were online earlier so hopefully they will reply soon.
Regards
Sarah
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May be useful in the future if you dont already have it;
Marriage;
Sept 1852, St Michael and All Angels, Coventry
William WESTLEY, 35, Widr, Weaver, abode Little Park Street, Father JOHN, a Grocer
Sarah HAMMERSLEY, 27, Widow, Father Thomas RUSHTON, a Engineer
Witnesses, Skears Rew WESTLEY, Ellen RUSHTON
(FreeREG)
Hi does anyone have any further info, I’m desperately trying to find what happened to my Great Grandmother Ellen Westley. Thank you.
Williams 1st Marriage is there also 1841
Henrietta Christened St Michael, Coventry;
ELLEN 7 Sept 1868*******
THOMAS 21 Aug 1868, birth 22 May 1868
WILLIAM GARLAND Westley 21 April 1871, birth 4 Nov 1870
Have you ruled this out for Ellen?
Name: Ellen Henrietta Coles
Death Place: South Australia
Registration Year: 1926-1930
Registration Place: South Australia
Page Number: 379
Volume Number: 496
Ellen Henrietta Coles
Birth: unknown
Death: Jul. 8, 1927
Burial:
West Terrace Cemetery
Adelaide
Adelaide City
South Australia, Australia
Plot: RC West Gnd
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If there is anyone still looking at this family. Fredrick Charles Cole was my grandfather. My father was always told Ellen stayed in Western Australia and The father came home with the children and died on the boat, I believe they either went to Ellen’s relatives in Coventry, or a care home in Ryton Coventry uk