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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: searchr on Saturday 14 October 17 02:02 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Can anyone please decipher this maiden surname? The first surname, I believe, is O'Hara.
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Shiress ???
Dawn M
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Thanks Dawn. Could I just add this snip from the same record that seems to say coalminer (deceased) William? it's the way they do their "m" that makes me wonder.
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What is the document?
What year & where?
Where/when was the person born/married?
Dates & areas can help a lot.
Annie
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I think the maiden surname looks like Shiress.
sami
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The second snippet says "Coachman (Deceased)"
Steve
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Thanks again all. That's great. It was a marriage in Scotland of a widow from a mining accident. At least some of them were originally Irish. It was in 1899 in Uphall, Linlithgow. The surname that looks like Shiress is of the mother of the second husband, so is really important to help get further back.
With the coachman bit, I was too influenced by this snip from the same record that I do think says miner. The extra line is from the surname above.
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Is the groom's name from the second marriage in 1889 in Uphall, O'Hara? I so, what was the name of the groom's father? Could it be James O'Hara. Only because I saw a reference to a James O'Hara and an Alice Shivers - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FRCC-QRG
Monica :)
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Yes! Thank you so much.
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For what it's worth I too think Shiress and Coachman.
I think the surname might be open to different spellings due to dialects, as my Aberdonian Aunt when she was alive pronounced the spelling "Shirras" as "Sherris".
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What was groom's name and age (birth year approx.)?
Monica
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Ahh, marriage in Uphall for a James O'Hara to a Catherine Reynolds/Martin in 1899 not 1889?
If James died in Scotland, a check on his death cert might help with confirming surnames and details.
Monica
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Hi Monica and all,
Thanks for all your help.
Try http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,278236.msg1619962.html
Yes It was 1899. Sorry. I've fixed it now.
The bride went to Chicago in 1928 as a widow. I don't know what happened to James.
I wonder if Rena's related to him.
Thanks for the family search link. It looks interesting.
It's amazing how much variation there is in Irish and Scottish surnames, particularly, especially if a clerk has tried to understand an accent where people can't write.
The Coachman is really convincing. The Shiress sort of is. It certainly looks like it. It could even be Shiren I guess, when you look at the n in Miner.
Thanks all again.
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Hi Monica and all,
I wonder if Rena's related to him.
I followed my children's gt.grandmother Williamina Shirras line back to a Wm Shirras & Co, tinsmiths, School Lane, Old Machar, Aberdeen. Another Shirras sibling (who I haven't followed) married into a "Smith" line and Mr Smith senior had a (stage)coach business. I thought I had one of their Aberdeen adverts which gave details of their destinations but unfortunately I can't find it.
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searchr, have you seen Catherine's 1938 natualization application? Nice photo of her. She states she has a daughter Catherine (not Alice who died in 1901) b. 20 October 1900? and a son Patrick b. 1 March 1903 who live with her. Catherine was Patrick's wife so maybe some confusion there. Husband had been a James and is now a widow (as you had from the 1928 manifest).
Separate naturalization application for son Patrick, including his photo too.
Have you got the family in 1911? They are indexed I think as OHARO in Carluke Lanark. James is still showing as alive then. James aged 34, Catherine 35 and four children: Jane 9, Patrick 7, Elizabeth 4 and James 2.
James' death therefore between 1911-28.
Monica
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Thanks again Rena and Monica.
Wow! I haven't seen those naturalization applications but would love to. Where should I look? The censuses in the US are fairly easy to get to and interesting too.
I'm not sure about the 1911 Scotland one. There's another candidate for the family on reply 35 on http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,278236.msg1619962.html but I haven't found that one yet either. From the 1901, James was born about 1864 in Glasgow, but I don't know how reliable that is.
It's been a bit busy again today and will be again tomorrow. I should be able to look properly on Wednesday, I hope.
You've been really helpful.
Also, could Tiernan and Shiren possibly sound similar (to the ears of a clerk)? I saw an Alice Tiernan somewhere and can't even remember what type of record I saw it in. There was also a McLean and a Higgins, but they're a bit far-fetched. The Alice in Ireland was also Shivvey, but that story seems to be mainly in Ireland.
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I think this is the only possible ref to a 1911 entry on the other thread
I found a James O'hara, aged 44 and Mrs O'hara, 45 and Catherine, 11 in 1911 but that was the closest :-\
Gadget
We know that Catherine and James O'Hare had a son Patrick born in 1903. This is what made me think that the possible 1911 details above could connect to the family. As always with these things, you won't know until you look... ::)
Monica
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Hi all,
Thanks you so much Monica. I haven't investigated the 1911 censuses yet, except that I know I couldn't find the one from the other thread when I last looked.
However ....
I had the index about Catherine https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XKGK-YSH (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XKGK-YSC is about the Catherine b 1904 so probably Patrick's wife and this one is about Patrick https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XKG2-9HF) and the card index about Catherine https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2H5Y-LF6
I spent yesterday and the previous night browsing through about 3000 family search images of Illinois, Northern District Petitions for Naturalization, 1906 – 1994. This morning I looked properly at the card index one above and realized it gave a petition number. This meant I could go to the right set of images to browse. I calculated about which page in the set it would be - 694 (not too far out) - but instead of going straight to it I made myself browse through the others in case something popped up. Now I've got it, plus her certificate of arrival, declaration of intention (which has the pic on it) and oath of allegiance. How good is that!
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CONGRATULATIONS SEARCHR
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Ooooh! Thanks Rena. Wow!