RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Meaghangower on Saturday 14 October 17 16:18 BST (UK)
-
Hi all, we are trying to trace my great aunty who my grandmother lost contact with till she died in a convent. Does anyone know of a little sisters of the poor in England or Ireland, she was also left shares and a estate by her mother, we have an address of 296a portobello road London, 6 months before her death, but I'm confused when her death card says ireland. Would love some help tracing her
Thanks in advance
-
Any particular year?
-
Hi,
Welcome :)
What year did she die?, a name would also help us look for her, in electoral rolls, probate etc.
Cathy
-
Doesn't provide any answers but on googling the address it brought up this previous RC post where someone also mentions the address of 296a Portobella Road.
It's a death in 1960, the informant's name is given at the same address as where the death took place 296a Portobello Road, Kensington (although originally the Registrar had written St. Charles Hospital (5) as place of death, then crossed it out)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=491342.0
-
In 1960 296a Portobello Road had 167 residents , also known as St Joseph s House.
Described in newspapers as St Joseph s House, Portobello Raoad, Little sisters of the Poor and in 1927 Home for the Aged Poor.
Cathy
-
Found by Googling
"St. Joseph's House, Portobello Road, Notting Hill—a Roman Catholic Home for
aged poor persons of both sexes, brought from various parts, largely from Ireland"
It was run by the Little Sisters for the Poor, so possibly your nun was working there.
http://www.golbornelife.co.uk/stjosephs.html
-
Oh good work Jan...I just found it and came on to post but you are quicker than me ;D
Carol
-
What a strange thing to do though, bring aged poor from Ireland to a home in London. I wonder why they didn't just open a home in Ireland? Unless it is badly worded and it means it cared for elderly Irish who were already in London.
-
Hi all! Thanks so much! She was part of little sisters of the poor, we received a card when she died my grandad kept it, she reportedly got pregnant in marries, she came from a very Catholic family I wonder if she was sent because she was pregnant. Her name was sister anna Martin or possibly anne when she wasn't a nun.
Thanks for the help my grandma has always wondered what happened to her
-
Some extra info, she died in 9th of February 1965 aged 54
-
Any particular year?
-
Sorry, posts crossed
-
Hi all! Thanks so much! She was part of little sisters of the poor, we received a card when she died my grandad kept it, she reportedly got pregnant in marries, she came from a very Catholic family I wonder if she was sent because she was pregnant. Her name was sister anna Martin or possibly anne when she wasn't a nun.
Thanks for the help my grandma has always wondered what happened to her
Is Martin the Surname??
-
Yes it was, she never married.
-
......her death card says ireland......
Can you elaborate??
-
My grandad received a card with her photo on her date and age of death and on the bottom it has an address for Dublin. I tried googling it but nothing came up.
-
Hi,
There is a probate record for her,
Probate Date: 8 Aug 1966
MARTIN Anne of St Peters Home, Meadow Road, London, S.W.8 died 9 February 1965 at St Thomas Hospital London S.E.1. Probate London 8 August to Florence MCDONOUGH Spinster. £243.
You could get a copy here, I found it searching 1966 not 1965,
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=martin&yearOfDeath=1966&page=3#calendar
It looks like the the Little Sisters of the Poor are still there,
http://www.littlesistersofthepoor.co.uk/our-homes/london-st-peters/
Maybe they could give you some more info.
Regards,
Daisy
-
Hi,
There is a probate record for her,
Probate Date: 8 Aug 1966
MARTIN Anne of St Peters Home, Meadow Road, London, S.W.8 died 9 February 1965 at St Thomas Hospital London S.E.1. Probate London 8 August to Florence MCDONOUGH Spinster. £243.
You could get a copy here, I found it searching 1966 not 1965,
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=martin&yearOfDeath=1966&page=3#calendar
It looks like the the Little Sisters of the Poor are still there,
http://www.littlesistersofthepoor.co.uk/our-homes/london-st-peters/
Maybe they could give you some more info.
Regards,
Daisy
Thanks...the card might have been printed in Dublin?? It has "some address" on it, maybe Printers.
-
Thank you, I'm confused about who Florence is though is it a soliciter or another sister at the home? How would I find this out
-
Death 1965
MARTIN ANN 54 Lambeth 5c 1318
St Thomas's Hospital is south of the river.
Nun's deaths can also be recorded under their religious names but not in this case, there isn't another entry in the index on freebmd
-
Ann Martin is listed on the 1964 electoral register for St Peters Home, Meadow Road, Lambeth Constituency Vauxhall Constituency.
Florence McDonough isn't.
Maybe Ann was a resident not a sister.
-
I can't see a Florence McDONOUGH that is an obvious choice.
You could download the will I found but it will cost £10.
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Support/Help
-
Ann Martin is listed on the 1964 electoral register for St Peters Home, Meadow Road, Lambeth Constituency Vauxhall Constituency.
Florence McDonough isn't.
Maybe Ann was a resident not a sister.
I'm wondering if Florence is Annes possible child? I've spoke to my grandma my aunty anne had polio as a child and as a result she had a limp even from being young, I wonder if this is why she was in a care home?
-
do you have her actual date of birth?
-
getting a copy of the will as suggested by Daisypetal could be more useful than a death cert.
At least you'll get an address for Florence but maybe not a relationship, other than being the executor.
-
I can't say for definite, but if nun's have vows of poverty and renounce their worldly goods when they enter the convent, do they write wills?
If not, then Ann may not have been a religious sister.
-
If she was a nun, could she have been taken back to the Mother House in Ireland for burial?
-
There is a Florence McDonough at 296a Portobello Road in 1939, definitely not Annes daughter, sounds like a worker at the home.
Cathy
-
My great grandfather Patrick died in a St Joseph's Home in Liverpool the Little Sisters looked after aged people from the RC community who tended to be Irish or of Irish ancestry. I don't think they moved people over from Ireland any Irish people in the homes would have lived and worked in England most of their lives. There would have been similar homes in Ireland.
Blue
-
My great grandfather Patrick died in a St Joseph's Home in Liverpool the Little Sisters looked after aged people from the RC community who tended to be Irish or of Irish ancestry. I don't think they moved people over from Ireland any Irish people in the homes would have lived and worked in England most of their lives. There would have been similar homes in Ireland.
Blue
That's what I was thinking Blue, makes more sense than the way that piece I found was worded.
-
I can't say for definite, but if nun's have vows of poverty and renounce their worldly goods when they enter the convent, do they write wills?
If not, then Ann may not have been a religious sister.
Exactly what I was thinking as I read the thread, nuns shoudn't have anything to leave in a will,not sure the nuns would accept an unmarried mother as a nun either.
-
Both my aunty and grandma have said she got pregnant and was sent off to have the baby as she was unmarried and her family were devout Catholics, my other aunty was part of the same order. It's possible she wasn't a nun but had the title sister after being at the convent for so long she was sent in the 1940s.
-
Both my aunty and grandma have said she got pregnant and was sent off to have the baby as she was unmarried and her family were devout Catholics, my other aunty was part of the same order. It's possible she wasn't a nun but had the title sister after being at the convent for so long she was sent in the 1940s.
She might have been a lay sister. They did domestic duties and manual labour. Done away with by reforms of Second Vatican Council in 1960s. Given the existence of a will it's more likely she wasn't a nun but a member of staff, or possibly working as a volunteer for board & lodging and pocket money. Depending on the order and the individual convent, "board" might be frugal or hearty.
The address on the card probably was that of the printer. Catholic newspapers have adverts for printers of memorial cards. There used to be several firms did them. Is the one for your great-aunt small, oblong, with a miniature photo of her, some prayers and a religious symbol? Was she wearing a veil in the photo? A nun's habit became a bit more relaxed in the mid 1960s as a result of Vatican 2 but they still had to wear veils. I suppose the various groups of nuns got their new-style habits over a period of time during the decade.
Edit. Just remembered something about nuns' names. A nun taking her vows before mid 1960s would have given up her own name and taken a saint's name. Some nuns had names of male saints. After Vatican 2 they got their own names back. (I'm not sure if it happened in every order.)
-
An anecdote, if I may, about my Great-aunt Annie who was a nun in an Anglo-Catholic convent. Having taken the usual vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience at the age of 18, she had no personal property or possessions. Therefore neither she nor any other nun would have needed to write a will.
However, her sister Dolly (not a nun, but never married) did leave a will. I believe it was one of those 'do-it-yourself' forms. Dolly specified which items were to go to which family members, naming only those who had kept in touch and helped her in various ways. She appointed an executor (my uncle) and two independent witnesses signed the will. Great - except that Dolly forgot to sign it herself, so it wasn't valid. As she had no children, the estate should then have passed to her only surviving sibling who was, as you've probably guessed, Great-aunt Annie otherwise known as Sister Annie Jean, who had to decline because she'd taken a vow of poverty.
In short, nuns do not have anything to bequeath in wills, and equally they cannot benefit from other people's wills. Therefore Anne Martin was not a nun.
Carol