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Some Special Interests => Heraldry Crests and Coats of Arms => Topic started by: MacGrigor on Monday 16 October 17 15:56 BST (UK)
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Hello,
Can anyone locate me a good-quality coat of arms for the Pochin family of Barkby? My branch lived in Wigston, and comes from my 3x great-grandmother, Caroline, who married John Dobson in 1857.
Thanks,
Adam
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The General Armoury lists three -
Pochen, or Poching (Barklay, co. Leicester). Ar. a chev. gu. betw. three horseshoes sa. Crest—A harpy ppr. wings endorsed or.
Pochin (Barkby Hall, co. Leicester; descended from Richard Pochin, who m. Alice, granddau. and eventual heiress of Anne, only dau. and heiress of Walter Power, Esq., of Barkby). Or, a chev. gu. betw. three horseshoes sa. Crest —A harpy, wings ppr. fuU-faced, and tail twisted round the leg.
Pochin (Edmonthorpe Hall, co. Leicester). Same arms and crest.
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Thank you very much!
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I have used a dark grey rather than black for the horseshoes, as a black outline and black nail-holes are almost impossible to see on a black horseshoe. The College of Arms does this as well and only uses black for emphasis.
Regards
Chas
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That's fine. It is excellent quality. Do you have any for the Blewett or Bruin families, also of Leicestershire?
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Now it starts to get harder.
The General Armoury gives the following (but nothing for Leicestershire) -
Blewet (Cornwall). Or, on a chief gu. three plates.
Blewet (Gloucestershire, and Grenham, co. Somerset). Ar. (another, or) a chev. betw. three eagles displ. vert. Crest - A mort head ppr.
Blewet (Hampshire). Or, an imperial eagle gu.
Blewet (Lincolnshire). Ar. a fesse gu. in chief three lozenges of the second (another, sa.).
Blewet. Or, six eagles displ. gu.
Blewet. Gu. on a chief ar. three lozenges (another, fusils) sa.
Blewett. Or, a chev. betw. six. eagles displ. vert.
Blewett, or Bluett. Gu. an eagle displ. with two heads gu.
Blewit (Holcombe Regis, co. Devon, Visit. 1620). Or, a chev. betw. three eagles displ. vert. Crest—A squirrel sejant or, in his paws an acorn vert fructed of the first.
Bleweitt (Llantarnan Abbey, co. Monmouth). See under Morgan.
There are two, quite different, Blewetts, but it should be remembered that spelling is an adventure and not a science. Brothers quite often spell their surnames differently.
So which one do you think is yours?
Regards
Chas
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Judging by location, I would say Lincolnshire. Anything on Bruin? They were from Wigston, Leicestershire.
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Again, we have a problem, only I think worse.
Bruin, or Bruen. Ar. an eagle displ. sa. armed gu. Crest - A man ar. with a crutch in the right hand or, and a basket at his back of the last, on a staff of the second.
Bruin. Az. a lion ramp. ar. guttee de sang.
Bruin. Quarterly, gu. and az. four estoiles or.
This time there is no territorial designation to work from. Unless you know for sure that one of these belonged to an ancestor, you could be usurping someone else's arms.
I will work on the Lincolnshire arms.
Regards
Chas
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Please remember that there is no such thing as a "family" coat-of-arms! :-\
A coat-of-arms is awarded to a named individual, and only he and his direct male descendants may (officially) us the arms.
In Scotland, it is still illegal to use arms to which you are not entitled.
From the College Of Arms:
FAQs: heraldry
Q. Do coats of arms belong to surnames?
A. No. There is no such thing as a 'coat of arms for a surname'. Many people of the same surname will often be entitled to completely different coats of arms, and many of that surname will be entitled to no coat of arms. Coats of arms belong to individuals. For any person to have a right to a coat of arms they must either have had it granted to them or be descended in the legitimate male line from a person to whom arms were granted or confirmed in the past.
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I'm not claiming any as my own, I'm just assembling some for a file about extended family who have gone on to be granted arms.
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Please remember that there is no such thing as a "family" coat-of-arms!
I must take issue with you on this point. Ten years ago the College stopped enforcing the use of cadency marks to difference arms within a family, saying it was "purely an internal family matter". So the granted arms stopped being individual and became family arms.
The announcement was made by Garter in the December 2007 edition of The Heraldry Gazette.
It is quite right to say that there are no 'arms of the name', but there are certainly 'arms of the family'.
Regards
Chas
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Blewet (Lincolnshire). Ar. a fesse gu. in chief three lozenges of the second (another, sa.).
I have done both as Burke had conflicting sources.
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Thank you very much!
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Please remember that there is no such thing as a "family" coat-of-arms!
I must take issue with you on this point. Ten years ago the College stopped enforcing the use of cadency marks to difference arms within a family, saying it was "purely an internal family matter". So the granted arms stopped being individual and became family arms.
The announcement was made by Garter in the December 2007 edition of The Heraldry Gazette.
It is quite right to say that there are no 'arms of the name', but there are certainly 'arms of the family'.
Regards
Chas
But in order to use a particular arms, you have to prove direct descent in the male line from the armiger?
Think how difficult that is if your surname is Smith or Jones?
(The arms I use as an avatar, were used in the 17th century by one John Garrad, whose line became extinct. I only use the arms, rather than the full achievement! ;D)
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But in order to use a particular arms, you have to prove direct descent in the male line from the armiger?
Think how difficult that is if your surname is Smith or Jones?
(The arms I use as an avatar, were used in the 17th century by one John Garrad, whose line became extinct. I only use the arms, rather than the full achievement! ;D )
If the main line dies out a cadet line takes on the arms (undifferenced). A prime example of this is the Duke of Wellington. He was the younger son and bore a mark of difference on his arms. As he became more famous he dropped the difference and used the undifferenced arms - at the same time as his brother (the rightful heir) was using them. The older brother conveniently died without issue, which allowed the Duke to carry on as if he had no brother.
In the 19th century and into the 20th a 'Name and Arms clause' was quite common. A rich man with arms, but no son, would put the clause in his will. If his duaghter's future husband changed his name to the armiger's, the husband would inherit the arms and usually a large fortune. Some single men, with no children, when contemplating their own mortality would arrange to have a 'Ward'. The ward would be raised as if it were the armiger's own. If it was a girl, then the name and arms clause would appear in the will. If it was a boy, he would be adopted and inherit the arms. There is at least one case of a man changing his name twice after his wife died so as to inherit further arms - and money, of course!
The arms I use as an avatar are mine de jure.
Regards
Chas
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RE the arms for the Pochin family of Barkby Hall, is it known when they were granted and to whom?