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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: s58roads on Monday 16 October 17 16:58 BST (UK)

Title: Susan & Margaret Dalrymple from Dumfriesshire??
Post by: s58roads on Monday 16 October 17 16:58 BST (UK)
In his will my Great Uncle coal master Michael Burns b 6 Jan 1818 Closeburn  d 3 May 1888 Edinburgh
left shares to his extended family. I have tracked down most of the family in the will apart from his so called cousins
Susan Dalrymple(America) and Margaret Dalrymple(America)
Michael's parents Thomas Burns and Janet Dalrymple were my GGG Grandparents.
I assume both Susan and Margaret were in America when the will was signed on 22 March 1888.
Any help in tracing these ladies much appreciated.
Geoff
Title: Re: Susan & Margaret Dalrymple from Dumfriesshire??
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 17 October 17 00:31 BST (UK)
Have you looked for them on the US 1880 census?

https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1417683?collectionNameFilter=false
Title: Re: Susan & Margaret Dalrymple from Dumfriesshire??
Post by: s58roads on Tuesday 17 October 17 09:09 BST (UK)
Thank you, yes, but no joy.
Geoff
Title: Re: Susan & Margaret Dalrymple from Dumfriesshire??
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 17 October 17 10:21 BST (UK)
I wonder if he referred to them by their maiden names when they were actually married?

Title: Re: Susan & Margaret Dalrymple from Dumfriesshire??
Post by: s58roads on Tuesday 17 October 17 15:01 BST (UK)
No joy again as all married women in the will were given both maiden and married names and their relationship to the deceased,
Geoff
Title: Re: Susan & Margaret Dalrymple from Dumfriesshire??
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 17 October 17 20:55 BST (UK)
Hi Geoff

Have you managed to work out siblings for Janet Darlymple?

There is this birth entry for example https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYWK-ZD3  There was a first Susan born to this couple in 1830 in Keir who must have died young.

Monica

Added: They also had a daughter called Margaret https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTGS-T2R
Title: Re: Susan & Margaret Dalrymple from Dumfriesshire??
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 17 October 17 21:25 BST (UK)
How about this 1860 entry for Susan and Margaret?

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MCWF-99M

Monica
Title: Re: Susan & Margaret Dalrymple from Dumfriesshire??
Post by: s58roads on Wednesday 18 October 17 08:08 BST (UK)
Hi Monica,
Quick acknowledgement. This all looks promising. I will investigate further.
Geoff
Title: Re: Susan & Margaret Dalrymple from Dumfriesshire??
Post by: s58roads on Wednesday 18 October 17 12:25 BST (UK)
Hi Monica,
The siblings I have for Janet Dalrymple are:
Margaret b 9 Jul 1786
Charles b 8 Oct 1791
Sarah b 1806/7
All with parents Charles Dalrymple and Sarah McCall.
In the 1860 USA census Susan and Margaret Durinple are both young ladies in their early 20s.
How and when did they get to America and who accompanied them I wonder?

Geoff
Title: Re: Susan & Margaret Dalrymple from Dumfriesshire??
Post by: Millmoor on Wednesday 18 October 17 12:42 BST (UK)
Seems to be a possible marriage for Susan in New York 6 Aug 1877 to James Clark. (Only a transcription but parents given as George Dalrymple and Jane Lenon which could easily be a poorly transcribed version of Lennox).

William
Title: Re: Susan & Margaret Dalrymple from Dumfriesshire??
Post by: Millmoor on Wednesday 18 October 17 12:50 BST (UK)
1880 census has Susan Clark with husband James, a boatman.

1900 census has a Susan Clark b 1835 in Brooklyn living with sister Margaret Graham b 1841, both widows. Census gives immigration year as 1870.

William
Title: Re: Susan & Margaret Dalrymple from Dumfriesshire??
Post by: Millmoor on Wednesday 18 October 17 13:33 BST (UK)
1841Scotland Census Bothwell, Carnbroe Ironworks

George Dalrymple 40 Blacksmith journeyman
Jean 40
Charles 25
Mary 20
John 20
Robert 15
George 8
Susan 6

Unable to see them in 1851 but Susan appears to be a visitor (occ straw bonnet maker) with older sister Sarah Russell in Bothwell in 1861.

William
Title: Re: Susan & Margaret Dalrymple from Dumfriesshire??
Post by: s58roads on Wednesday 18 October 17 14:42 BST (UK)
Hi William,
We seem to be getting warmer. You mention the Scotland 1861 census which shows Susan with her older sister 
Sarah RUSSELL.  Another of the beneficiaries in Michael Burns' will was his cousin Sarah Dalrymple or Stewart and if failing the shares to go to their daughter Jane RUSSELL
Geoff.
Title: Re: Susan & Margaret Dalrymple from Dumfriesshire??
Post by: Millmoor on Wednesday 18 October 17 16:11 BST (UK)
1861 census has Sarah Russell as a widow. She appears to have remarried John Stewart and is recorded in the 1871 census as Sarah Stewart in Blantyre along with children Thomas and Jane Russell.

Death for a Sarah Dalrymple/ Russell/ Stewart age 85 Calton (Glasgow ) 1911.

William

Added Marriage of Sarah Dalrymple/ Russell to John Stewart Blantyre 1869.
Title: Re: Susan & Margaret Dalrymple from Dumfriesshire??
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 18 October 17 20:08 BST (UK)
From your info William, the US 1860 census entry may be a red herring as we have Susan in the UK by 1861. Alternative being that they went to the US between 1841-60 and then returned to the UK. Like William I can't see this family in 1851  :-\

Great link you have now found from the 1861 census and the marriages/names of sister Sarah linking her to the right Susan and the names from the will.

As you say Geoff...getting warm  ::)

Monica
Title: Re: Susan & Margaret Dalrymple from Dumfriesshire??
Post by: Millmoor on Wednesday 18 October 17 21:53 BST (UK)
There is a passenger list with Susan Dalrymple in 1849, possibly travelling with brother John.She is showing as a visitor in 1861 and so I think it possible that she came back. Possible passenger list in 1861 showing her returning to the USA (it does say born USA but these sorts of documents are not error free).

Margaret seems to have married a Walter Graham - she is quite easy to find in the various New York state censuses etc. and has brother Charles with her at one point.(1875).  1875 also shows a niece age 19 Bella Dalrymple, born New York - there is a birth for Isabella Dalrymple 2 March 1856 parents John and Elizabeth. Perhaps suggests that the 1849 passenger list might be correct.

William

Title: Re: Susan & Margaret Dalrymple from Dumfriesshire??
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 18 October 17 22:04 BST (UK)
William, was posting this and saw the red message. Leaving my post as is, with potential details of a further trip in 1861 for Susan.

There is a possible shipping manifest entry in 1849 which shows 3 Dalrymples arriving in NY, departure Glasgow, on 28 July 1849 on the 'John Ker'.  There is no original image of the manifest available for this manifest but all three below have the same 'family identification' number on the index:

John 27
Jane 20
Susan 13

There is also a shipping manifest entry for a Susan Dalrymple, age 25 (born  c.1836) leaving Liverpool for NY and arriving there on 17 August 1861 (after the 1861 UK census) on the 'Harvest Queen'. She shows as having a US nationality and a seamstress. Could Susan have been home to visit family at the time of the 1861 census in the UK? There are no records at that time for incoming travellers to the UK (they start from 1878).

With William's details of a marriage for Susan in NY in 1877, wondering if she was in the US for 1850 and 1870 censuses?

Monica
Title: Re: Susan & Margaret Dalrymple from Dumfriesshire??
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 18 October 17 22:12 BST (UK)
The 1850 US census has at least one possible entry in Lowell, Middlesex, Massachusetts:

Jane Dalrymple 20 b. Scotland
Susan Dalrymple 16 b. Scotland

Little detail on the entry. There are a number of other young people there too. Maybe a boarding house?

Monica
Title: Re: Susan & Margaret Dalrymple from Dumfriesshire??
Post by: s58roads on Thursday 19 October 17 09:10 BST (UK)
Thank you to William & Monica for this information and the time you have devoted to my query.
We now know quite a bit about Susan, Margaret and Sarah Dalrymple all three being children of George Dalrymple b 13 May 1798 Cummertrees and Jane Lennox who were married in Closeburn on 29 November 1814.
The remaining puzzle now is how they relate as Cousins to Michael Burns?
Geoff
Title: Re: Susan & Margaret Dalrymple from Dumfriesshire??
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 19 October 17 21:22 BST (UK)
Janet Dalrymple, wife of Thomas Burns, and George Dalrymple must have been siblings, both children of Charles and Sarah (McCall) Dalrymple?

Cannot see a death for George Dalrymple, father of the family we have been discussing. Thinking he might have died pre 1855 (1841-49 - 1849 when we have the possible shipping mannifest to the US).

Monica
Title: Re: Susan & Margaret Dalrymple from Dumfriesshire??
Post by: s58roads on Friday 20 October 17 09:30 BST (UK)
Hi Monica,
Thank you I agree Janet and George Dalrymple being siblings is the most likely possibility.
A remoter possibility is that Susan, Margaret and Sarah Dalrymple are 2nd cousins of Michael Burns in which case George Dalrymple's "father" Hugh Dalrymple and Janet Dalrymple's "father" Charles Dalrymple are the siblings.
eg we have close relations in our family who we call cousins but in fact they are 2nd cousins. However, I have not yet been able to prove either possibility.
This quest may prove as intractable as my trying to establish the date and place of death of Janet Dalrymple (sometime between 1856 and 1859 perhaps)
Geoff
Title: Re: Susan & Margaret Dalrymple from Dumfriesshire??
Post by: Gadget on Friday 20 October 17 09:38 BST (UK)
Quote
A remoter possibility is that Susan, Margaret and Sarah Dalrymple are 2nd cousins of Michael Burns in which case George Dalrymple's "father" Hugh Dalrymple and Janet Dalrymple's "father" Charles Dalrymple are the siblings.

Hi

I've been following this thread over the last few days but too busy to do much searching. However, I recall seeing the baptism of a Janet Dalrymple (?1789) in Kirkbean, KKD to a Hugh Dalrymple - could this Hugh be the same one who had a son, George?

Gadget
Title: Re: Susan & Margaret Dalrymple from Dumfriesshire??
Post by: s58roads on Saturday 21 October 17 15:20 BST (UK)
Hi Gadget,
Like Inspector CLOUSEAU "I am back on the case".

The 1851 census for Clyde Street CARLUKE, shows Janet Burns (Dalrymple) being born in Closeburn, Dumfries.

I see 11 children born to George Dalrymple and Jane/Jean Lennox who married in Closeburn 29 Nov 1814 including two Susans, one of whom must have died young.
Nine of these births took place in Keir, Dumfries between  between 1816 and 1835. The remaining two :
Thomas b 8 July 1838, Chris. 15 July 1838 CARLUKE.
Margaret b 21 Nov 1841 Old Monkland or Coatbridge
Geoff