RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: PAK on Saturday 21 October 17 20:15 BST (UK)
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I have had to use RootsChat to help me trace one branch of my family tree on a couple of previous occasions and I find I now have to ask again. There are two questions relating to my relative Effie Field (junior).
Firstly, some family trees refer to her as Effie Ofal Field. I've seen a copy of one written document and am inclined to believe that her middle name was actually Opal. She was almost certainly born in 1912 or 1913 but I can't find a birth record to establish her full name or date of birth.
Secondly, I've established from census returns that she married Burnley Seager (there are variations in spelling for both his forename and surname) at some time between 1930 and 1935, almost certainly in New York City. But I can't find a marriage record which I hope would not only confirm her full name but maybe also confirm her parents so that I know I have found the right one.
Am I right in thinking that BMD records in America are not available as comprehensively as those in England and Wales - or am I missing a trick?
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I do remember a thread on USA re Effie Field and Edward.
Why didn't you post this directly on to the USA board ? Added The thread has now moved.
There is no BMD index in the USA as there is in the UK. What is available varies State to State and County to County.
https://www.nypl.org/about/divisions/milstein/vital-records
Have you tried this site ?
http://www.italiangen.org/records-search/
This is the family search collections list which will give you an idea of what is available.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/list
Try browsing http://www.fultonhistory.com/Fulton.html to see if you can find any references to the family.
Connected threads -
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=780663.msg6349715#msg6349715
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=779881.msg6345636#msg6345636
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=765161.msg6169812#msg6169812
Sandra
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Posted in error
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If Effie/Ofal/Opal was born in NY then this is the NY genealogy site for BMD's. From a 1915 US census it seems she may have been born there.
https://www.health.ny.gov/vital_records/genealogy.htm
Good grief I have just read their charges!
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There was an entry on the New York birth index for Opal H Fields - 4 Jul 1912 - Manhattan NYC - Certificate Number 58435
This one may have been mentioned in one of the numerous threads on the family but I haven't had a chance to go back and read it all.
There was a birth for Edward Field - 17 October 1908 - Manhattan New York
Family search entry for Edward Field shows parents Edward Field and Effie Kent.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WCK-SCK
Sandra
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There is also a death record for Effie Seager - born 4 July 1912 - passed away 1 May 1999
Last Residence 11722 Central Islip, Suffolk, New York - matches the birth date above.
Sandra
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Effie Seager and Burnley - had at least one daughter. The daughters husband also shows on U.S. Public Records Index, 1950-1993, Volume 1 - living in the zip code 11722.
The couple married in Manhattan in 1960.
Using https://www.whitepages.com/ you shuld be able to trace the daughter.
Richard Drew Armstrong born 12 October 1938 passed away 15 May 2010 - Last Residence:
33431 Boca Raton, Palm Beach, Florida.
Burnley could have been Bernard P Seager born 13 May 1907 - passed away 8 December 1988 - SSN issued New York (Before 1951) - listed Burnice MA Seager in the New York Birth Index - 13 May 1907 Richmond. New York.
Sandra
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If Effie/Ofal/Opal was born in NY then this is the NY genealogy site for BMD's. From a 1915 US census it seems she may have been born there.
https://www.health.ny.gov/vital_records/genealogy.htm
Good grief I have just read their charges!
Edited
Added, I see now you mean the sites charges!
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Edward Fields - 17 October 1908 - passed away October 1984 - last residence 11757 Lindenhurst, Suffolk, New York. SSN issued New York (Before 1951)
Edward K Field married Ethel Payette 30 January 1930 - Manhattan, New York
Certificate Number 2954
Sandra
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The son of Edward Fields and Ethel - Eddie Kent Field born 8 November 1930 New York passed away 30 April 2005. Father Edward Field and Mother Ethel Payette.
Last Residence 34990 Palm City, Martin, Florida,
Listed on the Daily Times Obituary Index -
Edward K Field Jr - 74 years - New York City NY>Stuart FL - StuartNews; 2005-5-2; kat
http://obits.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/obit.cgi?Surname=FIELD%2C%20Edward%20K%20Jr&type=Keyword
Sandra
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A possible death (needs verified) record for George Field son of Edward and Ethel - George Robert Field born 3 September 1934 - passed away 29 June 2015 - - Montgomery County, Texas.
Listed in US Obituary collection tributes Maryland.
Mildred nee Becker Field born 5 th October 1935 - wife of George passed away 4 July 2010 Lady Lake, Lake, Florida.
SSN issued New York - 1952-1953
Sandra
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If Effie/Ofal/Opal was born in NY then this is the NY genealogy site for BMD's. From a 1915 US census it seems she may have been born there.
https://www.health.ny.gov/vital_records/genealogy.htm
Good grief I have just read their charges!
The site is for ordering vital records from New York state, but not from New York City. If you do need to purchase vital records from somewhere in New York state, it's best to see if they can be ordered from the town. The cost is typically $22 (in the majority of cases from the 1880's forward, you should be able to find an exact date or year, so no need to pay more than $22), but may be less from the town.
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I am most grateful for the effort that Rootschat friends have made to help me with this. Notably Sandra. Inevitably some questions remain but the picture is becoming clearer.
Sandra – you mention the birth certificate for “Opal H Fields”. Is it possible to access this online, or can anyone advise if there are any more details – notably parents names’ and if the writing is so poor that it could be Effie Opal Field?
The death record for Effie Seager certainly suggests that she married Burnley Seager but a marriage record will clinch it. His name seems to be difficult for people compiling the records ! There are at least 5 variations of his forename and 2 or 3 for his surname, but the birth date is helpful. I have a slight concern that a family tree on Ancestry shows her death as 1986. I know that these family trees are often inaccurate but wonder where that date came from? There is no citation.
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Never believe everything you see on ancestry - it is amazing how many tree's have the wrong information which other people copy and then it is magnified even more.
The tree that gives 1986 shows no source information - it was probably a relatives estimated date of when they thought she may have passed. ::)
U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index, 1936-2007 shows Effie Seager 4 July 1912 - passed away 1 May 1999 - Claim Date 6 Apr 1974
and the SSDI - Effie Seager 4 July 1912 passed away a May 1999 - Last Residence 11722 Central Islip, Suffolk, New York. SSN issued New York (Before 1951)
Sandra
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This may seem a long message but most of it is to do with one main point.
Edward Kent Field
Following on from the very helpful advice from Sandra, I was satisfied that Edward Kent Field died on 1st October 1984. The US Social Security Death Index (found via Familysearch) shows him born 17th October 1908 and died in October 1984 in Suffolk County, NY. Admittedly it shows him as Edward Field rather than Edward Kent Field but the birth date clinched it for me.
However, I also found, under “US Public Records 1950-1993” (via Ancestry) an entry for Edward K Field born 17th October 1908 living at “145 Farber Drive, West Babylon, NY 11704-5141 (1996)”. If that means he was there in 1996, why is the folder titled …-1993?
Similarly, Familysearch reveals a set entitled “US Public Record 1970-2009” which includes Edward K Field born 17th October 1908 residing in West Babylon between 1st Jan 1995 and 1st Jan 1998. So on the face of it, it seems that either the death index is wrong or the Public Records in West Babylon. Or am I misunderstanding the way that the records are kept in the US?
Burnley Seager
Again, thanks for Sandra’s helpful suggestions re Burnley Seager. It’s always difficult when both the forename and surname are capable of being spelt in different ways.
I have found him as “Brinley P Seager” with his parents in 1910 – the image shows that it could be “Burnley P” so I’m putting that down to an error in transcription on the website. He is Burnley P Sieger in 1920, Burnley R Seager in 1925 (again the image shows P rather than R); Burnely Segar in 1930.
However, once again the “United States Public Records 1970-2009” have confused me. They show Burnley Seager born 13th May 1907 at P O Box 1, in Coram NY 11727 on 13th July 2001 and also 1st January 1998. See https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2Q96-KNW.
But the Social Security Death Index does indeed show that Burnley could have been Bernard P Seager born 13 May 1907 - passed away 8 December 1988. As with the first query above, I don’t know how this can be resolved, and hope someone might be able to help.
There is one final uncertainty about him – the record of New York City births shows him as Burnley Marvin Seager – his mother was Harriet Marvin Seager, which explains the second name. Thereafter he appears with a second initial of P but I guess that was a decision taken after the birth was registered. I have found nothing to show that new second name.
It looks like marriages are not so well documented as I have found nothing to show the date of his marriage to Effie Field.
All advice gratefully received!
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However, I also found, under “US Public Records 1950-1993” (via Ancestry) an entry for Edward K Field born 17th October 1908 living at “145 Farber Drive, West Babylon, NY 11704-5141 (1996)”. If that means he was there in 1996, why is the folder titled …-1993?
Similarly, Familysearch reveals a set entitled “US Public Record 1970-2009” which includes Edward K Field born 17th October 1908 residing in West Babylon between 1st Jan 1995 and 1st Jan 1998. So on the face of it, it seems that either the death index is wrong or the Public Records in West Babylon. Or am I misunderstanding the way that the records are kept in the US?
Those US Public Records databases are from various sources that include phone books and direct mailing lists. You can see the explanation about where they get the information from here - https://search.ancestry.com/search/db.aspx?dbid=1788 People are often listed on them after they are deceased. My father is on there for many years after he died, and we certainly continued to get junk mail for him during that time frame. The Social Security Death Index is a government-maintained database, so, while errors do happen, it is far more likely to be accurate.
Regarding the marriage, not everything is available online and they could have married anywhere.
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PAK,
I don't know about now, but several years ago I was able to purchase a copy of my great-aunt's application form for a Social Security number. The form included her full name; date and place of birth; current address and employment; and parents' names.
It wasn't cheap but it was the only way of proving that she was my grandmother's sister (it's a long story). If you can, it might be worthwhile to order the application forms for the couple you're researching.
Regards,
Josephine
P.S. Sometimes people took on middle names, or changed their first names, at some point in their lives, without it being on their birth or baptism records. It adds to the challenge of finding documentation. I don't know if that's what happened in Effie's case but keep in mind (while you continue to search) that it might be a possibility.
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I'm reading the other threads now. This is a confusing person.
PAK, you wrote this in February of this year:
"...she died (as Effie M Field) a widow in 1930..."
Was this based on an index entry somewhere or an actual death record?
What made you decide that she had not died but had married Burnley Seager?
Regards,
Josephine
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Josephine - confusing is right! And that applies to many other members of her immediate family, too. I'm afraid I can't immediately quote the source but my notes read "She was buried on 16.4.30 at Mount Olivet Cemetery. Her parents’ names were given as Edward Kent and Rose Nurse...." so it was clearly an authoritative source, suggested to me by another Rootschat correspondent.
It was her daughter, also Effie Field, who married Burnley Seager. She is sometimes recorded as Effie Ofal Field, but I believe that to be a misreading of the census return, and should be Effie Opal Field.
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Josephine - confusing is right! And that applies to many other members of her immediate family, too. I'm afraid I can't immediately quote the source but my notes read "She was buried on 16.4.30 at Mount Olivet Cemetery. Her parents’ names were given as Edward Kent and Rose Nurse...." so it was clearly an authoritative source, suggested to me by another Rootschat correspondent.
That death record is here - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W1G-XJ3
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PAK - thanks for the clarification.
shellyesq - thanks for the link to the elder Effie's death record.
Regards,
Josephine
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PAK,
I can only find one mention of Burnley Seager (as a phrase) and it is in connection to his brother James M. Seager, who died in an explosion on a ship. (Of course, I can't be certain this is the same Burnley that you are researching.)
The following is my transcript of two articles:
Capital Journal
Salem, Oregon
Thurs., Nov. 8, 1951
[front page]
"Six Survivors Of Burned Ship Rescued at Sea
"Picked Up in Open Lifeboat – 5 of Crew Still Missing
"Seattle, Nov. 8 (AP) – Six seamen who survived a ship fire and explosion and 35 hours in an open lifeboat in rough seas were rescued in the North Pacific before dawn today.
"The dramatic rescue, when hope rapidly was running out, left six crew members of the India-bound wheat ship George Walton on the list of dead or missing.
"The Coast Guard said revised reports on the Tuesday disaster at sea were that one man was killed in the explosion and fire on the American government-owned freighter; 30 have been rescued; five are missing and presumed drowned.
"Four of the missing were lost from a lifeboat that flipped over in the unruly sea while rescue operations were under way and safety seemed almost within the men’s reach.
"List of Missing
"....James M. Seager, fireman-watertender, brother of Burnley Seager, 120 Beverly avenue, State [sic] Island, N.Y.... [I've redacted the other names in case anyone on the list is still living]
[page 6]
"Six Survivors
"(Continued from Page 1)
"The rescued were the last of the original crew of 36 of the American freighter George Walton, abandoned off the Washington coast after an explosion and fire late Tuesday. Twenty-four others were rescued from lifeboats, one was known dead aboard ship, and five were listed by the Coast Guard as missing and presumed drowned.
"The coast guard cutter Wachusett, one of an expanding fleet of search vessels, located the last known survivors drifting in the lifeboat 333 miles from Cape Flattery, northwesternmost tip of the United States.
"Hope was dwindling for the survival of the men when the Wachusett found them drifting 22 miles southeast of the Walton. The cutter radioed all were in good condition despite their 35-hour ordeal.
"The six picked up in the dramatic pre-dawn rescue today were [again, I've redacted the names in case any are still living]."
Capital Journal
Salem, Oregon
Sat., Nov. 24, 1951
"To Honor Men Who Died on Geo. Walton
"Portland, Nov. 24 (U.P.) – Wreaths will be dropped into the sea today at the site of the explosion of the vessel George Walton, in memory of two California sailors whose bodies were never recovered.
"The Walton sank while being towed into port after she was gutted by an explosion and fire Nov. 6 off the Washington coast.
"The men to be commemorated are James M. Seager of San Francisco and Arthur B. Waechtler of Berkeley. Both were in the engine room at the time of the explosion."
PAK -- Perhaps there are other collections of digitized newspapers that will have articles pertaining to the people you are researching. Or perhaps you could write to a library in Staten Island and ask for a look-up, if they offer such a service.
Regards,
Josephine