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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: seemex on Saturday 21 October 17 20:38 BST (UK)
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Since you all are on a roll today I thought I'd try another. I added a name as I see that's what I should have been doing for search purposes. I have a hunch that because this photo was from the same batch as my previous ones, Conwy, Deganwy, etc, that they were basing in or around Cheshire, maybe Warrington, but I hesitate to put those in the title as I've led you off on wild goose chases before by assuming locations that were far off.
This photo has a "PA" and below that, an "H" in the upper right. I can't tell if it's a sign or what it is. It looks to be some sort of town square maybe? Tom Beesley had family in the Warrington area. His father Percy Beesley and his grandfather, I think, both were architects....his father for sure. Maybe someone is familiar with this place?
I have another photo of a Tudor style building ( or maybe Cheshire style ) which I'll add in case it might help.
Thanks.
Brian
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Looks like the same chap in both.
Just a wild guess but how about Park House.
Maybe one of those houses that were open to the public or maybe an Hotel.
Looks like a sign in the foreground.
As I said just a guess.
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Only an observation to make at the moment.The bottom photo seems to have a mountainous skyline behind the building with a structure or structures on top.My instant reaction was Dinas Bran at Llangollen,but I think the shapes look too regular and the skyline too extensive.
Regards
Roger
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Tom Beesley is in both photographs and I believe they were taken during the same trip but possibly not the same day
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Only an observation to make at the moment.The bottom photo seems to have a mountainous skyline behind the building with a structure or structures on top.My instant reaction was Dinas Bran at Llangollen,but I think the shapes look too regular and the skyline too extensive.
Regards
Roger
Sorry Roger, but I must be missing something....all I see is a roof line on the lower photo.
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Roger, I think what you are seeing as a mountainous skyline is actually the top of the thatched roof and a chimney stack/pots just visible. I can see why you saw it that way though, it is deceiving.
Or maybe my eyes are going wonkey ;D
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Agree about the roof line. I think Roger might have thought it was Plas Newydd (Llangollen) with the rocks of Castell Dinas Bran across the Dee valley poking out above.
I don't think it's Plas Newydd though - we used to have to walk up tp there on wet games days and the frontage is different as far as I can remember.
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What is that in photo 1 behind Tom. At first glance I thought it was a thick tree trunk, but it looks more like a notice board or even an old grave stone. I can't make out anything written/engraved on it though.
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The line does suspiciously follow the roof line,maybe what I thought might be Dinas Bran is a chimney,but it makes for a strange roof.
I didn't think it was Plas Newydd,I have been there a couple of times.
Regards
Roger
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What is that in photo 1 behind Tom. At first glance I thought it was a thick tree trunk, but it looks more like a notice board or even an old grave stone. I can't make out anything written/engraved on it though.
I agree it's a sign. I enhanced it a little but still can't make out the script. Attaching it here.
Looks like maybe a date....1656? 1856?
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What is that in photo 1 behind Tom. At first glance I thought it was a thick tree trunk, but it looks more like a notice board or even an old grave stone. I can't make out anything written/engraved on it though.
Could be an advert
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Sorry Japeflakes, we must have posted at the same time. Its a sign but can't read it
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Could the 2nd photo be a hotel, (maybe Park Hotel ::) ::)) There seem to be a lot of rooms for a private house.
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Park hotel would fit in the PA and H in photo. Any idea which city?
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I did mention Park Hotel rather tongue in cheek. I have just noticed there is a sign on a post on the left hand side of photo, but it is at the wrong angle to read it.
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The "PA and H" seem to be just hanging in mid air!
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Another thought about the PA and H, given the leaning notice board on the left - it could even b be 'Parish Hall'
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I've been looking on Google around Warrington as the Beesley family lived there at some point, but that wall is stone and everything I see around there seems to be brick. "Parish Hall" is a good guess. I also see there's a "Paddington" and "Padgate" in the Warrington area. I wish I could enhance that sign better.
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I'm not sure whether it means anything but I have some photos that could be from the same time, that were taken along a canal or narrow waterway. I know that canals are common around those parts so it might help to know.
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Canals might be easier to identify. The wall, etc. might be under a roundabout or a motorway by now!
:-\
I did some searches for various tudor stately houses/gardens etc in Cheshire, Wirral and North Wales on Frith's site but nothing so far.
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Canals might be easier to identify. The wall, etc. might be under a roundabout or a motorway by now!
:-\
Here's one along the canal...could be same vicinity.
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Possibly Shropshire Union Canal somewhere between Chester and Ellesmere Port :-\
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Could the canal photo be near Penkridge? They attended a wedding down there on that same 1933 trip. Sorry to be flitting around, but I'm hoping to ID the older gent with Tom Beesley in the original photo. I'm thought that identifying the place, might help eliminate or confirm IDs of people.
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Could the canal photo be near Penkridge? They attended a wedding down there on that same 1933 trip. Sorry to be flitting around, but I'm hoping to ID the older gent with Tom Beesley in the original photo. I'm thought that identifying the place, might help eliminate or confirm IDs of people.
The Staffordshire and Worcestershire Canal runs through Penkridge. If you search Penkridge canal there are plenty of images, but it may be difficult to pinpoint your photo as there are no landmarks apart from the fence and telegraph poles to match up with. I'm off for a look at them now.
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Is it not likely at least that the man with Thomas Beesley is his father?Is this what you are trying to determine?
Regards
Roger
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No, Tom's father Percy Beesley ( an architect ) died in Shanghai in 1927 but his grandfather Thomas Beesley ( also an architect ) born about 1848, could have still been alive. Tom was born in 1906 so would have been about 27 at the time of these photos. I know that would make that older gent 85 if it was the grandfather. I just don't know.
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The display driver on my little laptop went bananas after my searches of images of canal scenes in Cheshire and Staffs ::)
The main problem is that so much will have changed since 1933 and there are few distinguishing features.
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I'm sorry there's so little to go on. The photos I have, I think are all from the same trip in 1933. Tom Beesley and my mother Iris Beesley, made a trip to the the UK from China. They attended a wedding in Penkridge ( or maybe Cannock ) of John Otty and Mary Payton and visited with relatives in and around Manchester, Warrington, and Chester, with a trip over into Wales, Conwy Castle etc.
Tom's family was from Warrington area and my mother ( nee Hunter ) had family from Manchester.
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John H Otty married Fanny E M Payton, Cannock RD, Q3, 1933.
Added - Staffs BMD has them marrying Penkridge, St Michael - wonder what the outside looked like?
Added 2 -have looked at the church site and don't think the photos are taken there unless changed considerable (remember Conwy!)
I've found a full report with photo of the marriage - PM me if you'd like a snip :)
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Reception was at Rock House, Penkridge.
13 July 1933 (Wednesday)
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Rock House is an address associated with the Payton family.
Regards
Roger
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I've been trying to convince myself that the background to the wedding car photo here
http://www.barryjamesphoto.com/penkridge-staffordshire-wedding-photographer-springtime/
is simllar.
Regards
Roger
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Rock House is an address associated with the Payton family.
Regards
Roger
It's now listed, as far as I can gather. Mary Payton's father was once vicar of Penkridge. According to details on Historic England, it's supposed to be now called Vicarage on maps :-\
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I don't think the original image is of them attending the marriage - they'd probably be in morning dress. Although that wall is promising - rebuilt ???
added - I tried going down the side of it in Google last night but my display driver went funny ???
added 2 - I've just taken a virtual walk along the wall and can't find a suitable spot.
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John H Otty married Fanny E M Payton, Cannock RD, Q3, 1933.
Added - Staffs BMD has them marrying Penkridge, St Michael - wonder what the outside looked like?
Added 2 -have looked at the church site and don't think the photos are taken there unless changed considerable (remember Conwy!)
I've found a full report with photo of the marriage - PM me if you'd like a snip :)
Yes Gadget, if you have the photo and article, I would love a copy. It also may be helpful as I have other photos taken that day so may giove some more clues. Thank you
Brian
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The Payton family was one that my mother and her sister stayed with during their time at school in Bournemouth, 1924-1928. Paytons also had a home in Torquay. The father Joseph Wattson Payton was vicar and one son, Cecil Payton, also went into the clergy ( my grandfather attended Cecil's wedding in 1938 )
I don't think the original photo for this post is connected with Payton's but it's certainly not impossible.
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I noticed that John Otty was an ENT surgeon at Aberdeen Children's Hospital, Foresterhill. As I once worked as a researcher there, I followed the family. Mary Payton died in Bradford in the 1950s and John died there in 1974.
Not central to your photo searches but an interesting diversion.
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Since we're a bit off topic...if you come across any Payton photos, especially of Rev Joseph Payton or his wife, I'd love to see them. They must have been quite prominent. The Rev Joseph Wattson Payton was married to Elizabeth Croydon Tildesley ( also I think a prominent family around Cannock )
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Canals might be easier to identify. The wall, etc. might be under a roundabout or a motorway by now!
:-\
I did some searches for various tudor stately houses/gardens etc in Cheshire, Wirral and North Wales on Frith's site but nothing so far.
Hi Gadget,
I have some new info on this set of photos and I now believe it could be Wirral as you guessed or possibly Wallasey. The people I was trying to identify in the photo with Tom and Iris Beesley, could be a Dr John Bond who lived in Hoylake in 1911. His daughters seem to have remained unmarried. Their names were Hilda Macpherson Bond and Mary Eunice Hunter Bond. The elderly lady could have been their mother, Maria Jesse Ramsay Bond ( nee MacPherson ) although the info I have shows that she died in 1932. There was a third daughter named Maria Jesse E Bond. All the daughters were close in age. I know this is a while back, but maybe this new info may shine some light.
Thanks all,
Brian Hunter Beesley
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Hi Brian
Glad you've got some new info. Here's a map showing the Wirral pensinsular, showing Hoylake and Wallasey :)
https://tinyurl.com/y9x892pz
Gadget
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Hi, if nobody has identified these places I will
First one is Mostyn Square, Parkgate, Wirral. Its where the bus stop is now outside the Church.
Second one is outside the Devon Doorway, Heswall, Wirral.
Ray
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Wow Ray, I believe you are right, well done! ;D
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mostyn_Square,_Parkgate_(1).JPG
https://www.francisfrith.com/gayton,wirral/gayton-the-devon-doorway-c1955_g352011
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Ray,
I agree with your solutions; most certainly the Devon Doorway photo and they both fit very well into what was probably the day's sight-seeing during the 1933 visit.
I'm bringing up today's Google Earth street view of Mostyn Square and I'm trying to align the view from the old photo with how it is today and the building in the background.
It has to be where you say though. Heading in from the Parade there is no sidewalk down the right-hand street, and on the left-hand street, the wall is only three stones high. That just leaves the corner, as you say, where the bus stop is. In the old picture on the right is some lettering "PA" and under that and "H" I wonder if that could have been "Parish" on the top letters? Or maybe "Parkgate"?
Excellent detective work, and much thanks.
Brian