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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Topic started by: Jomot on Sunday 22 October 17 11:26 BST (UK)
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Can anyone help me with a couple of place names from the 1851 census please, one in Carmarthenshire and the other Glamorgan.
Census refs if anyone wants to look them up are HO107/2460/145/23 David Thomas, and what I think is his daughter, Ann Jenkins, HO107/2460/146/25 - top place name please.
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wonder if the second one is meant to be Llangiwg, often written as Llanguicke
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/Llangiwg
List of place names in Carmarthenshire here, if that helps
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CMN/Gazetteer#L
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Thanks Osprey - this family is driving me to distraction!
I have a possible for David Thomas in 1861 giving a place of birth as Llandeilo, Glamorgan, although Llandeilo is actually Carmarthenshire. Would you say that's a reasonable match for the 1851 image too, or just wishful thinking on my part?
If Llandeilo is correct then I've found another daughter, but I'm just not sure.
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there's a Llandeilo in Glam too, Llandeilo Talybont and it's the neighbouring parish to Llangyfelach the parish where daughter Hanah was born.
But there's an age difference between that David Thomas and yours from 1851. I think yours is with his daughter Catherine in 1861. She was enumerated as Thomas in 1851 but married. I think she would have been Adam(s), marriage june qtr 1847, son Thomas also in the 1851 household.
1861 Moss Row (same as 1851) RG9/4069 folio 44 pg 11
John Adams head mar 45 lab b. Carms, Laugharne
Catherine wife 35 b. Clydach
Thos son 13 b. Aberdare
Ann dau 9 b. Aberdare
Catherine dau 5? b. Aberdare
David son 3 b. Aberdare
George Hughes lodger 33 labourer b. Carms, Llandisant
David Thomas lodger widower 74 b. Wilts, Calne
Wm Parry ? lodger 38 b. Carms, Midrym
Ann Davies servant 13 b. Aberdare
It look like the enumerator may have mixed up places of birth, Catherine 35 should have been born Aberdare as she was in 1851 & shows as in 1871. David may have been born Llanddeusant which is what I think the place of birth given for George Hughes is meant to be. Possible baptism 5 Feb 1786 in Llanddeusant son of Griffith Thomas.
:-\
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Thank goodness for another pair of eyes, I've been staring at this for days & getting nowhere.
I'd been considering the Moss Row one as I knew Catherine Adams was his daughter and Ann Davis is his granddaughter, but it was the PoB of Calne that threw me and made me consider Hannah as a possible daughter too - especially as her daughter was another Catherine.
Whether Ann Jenkins is his also daughter is a whole different puzzle, but perhaps that's for another day!
Thanks again.
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Definitely the Moss row one
Tarian y Gweithwyr - 10th August 1905. (translated)
Deaths in America
JONES - May 6, 1905, Bloomington, Ill., Mrs Catherine A Jones. She was born 29 Jan 1825, in the Cwmtwrch area of the Swansea valley, and she lived to celebrate her 80th birthday. Her parents were Dafydd a Catherine Thomas, who moved to Abernant, Aberdare, and lived in Moss Row, where they were members of the old Heol y felin meeting house. The departed married John Adams, who farmed in Abernant for years with R Fothergill. He hailed from Hafod Fach, Meidrim, near Carmarthen and died 25 March, 1870. They were faithful members of Ebenezer Congregational Church , Heol y Felin, under the ministry of the Rev Wm Edwards. they had two sons, Thomas and Dafydd, and two daughters, Catherine in Chicago, and Ann currently in Aberdare, the widow of our friend and true Christian Thos Morgan, who died suddenly in Barry, on a Sunday School trip from Aberdare 5 years ago. After burying her husband she and her two sons moved to Alton, Ill, to be with her sister and there she married Eynon R Jones who was buried 15 years ago. she moved to Bloomington 12 years ago. Mrs Jones had an honourable funeral, ministered by the Rev A M Conard, of the local Congregational church, and Dr Richard Edwards. Rest in peace my beloved and godly mother
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Mabel, thank you so much for this!
The mention of a sister in Illinois is fantastic, as I'm currently awaiting a marriage certificate for someone I suspected was Catherine's sister (Ann) & who moved to Illinois in 1851 & was buried at North Alton, so this seems to confirm it - brilliant :D
I descend from another of Catherine's sisters who I simply cannot find after her marriage so I'm hoping the various certs I've ordered will give me some clues, but this article gives some great background information, including some new chapels to track down as until now I only knew of an association to Carmel Chapel.
Today is feeling like a good day ;D
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what do you suspect was Ann's surname at death - I can have a look in the Welsh newspapers online collection in case that's also reported, as certain of them are quite good at regularly reporting on the expat community in the States, and the database includes Y Drych, a welsh language paper published over there
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Catherine's second husband Eynon R Jones died 14 March 1890 aged 65 in North Alton. Sadly the paper carries no info on wife, family, mourners etc that might help
here's Catherine and son Thomas in 1900
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MS4H-52S
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Thank you again Mabel.
The marriage certificate should be here on Monday I hope, and should confirm that after the death of her first husband, John Jenkins, Ann married William Jones (also referred to as William R Jones) and emigrated to Illinois in 1851 with her children Gwenllian, Richard, Catherine & David (Jenkins).
She died as Ann Jones on 9 January 1885 at North Alton and is buried at Godfrey Cemetery.
Added: I need to work this through, but I think that Eynon R Jones who you mentioned as Catherine's second husband, was the brother of William R Jones who was Ann's second husband. So sisters marrying brothers!
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If it's any help, his obit notes that Eynon was the son of Rees and Mary Jones, of Bryn, Glamorgan. They immigrated in 1851, settling first in Pennsylvanian then Youngstown, Ohio and moving to Alton in 1854
Y Drych - 19 Feb 1885 (translated)
JONES -Jan 9, 1885, in North Alton, Ill, aged 76, Ann, dearly beloved wife of William R. Jones. Born Llangiwc, Glamorganshire. Her parents moved to Aberdare when she was young. Thy were named Dafydd and Catherine Thomas. Her mother was the sister of the late Rees Morgan, Palmyra, Ohio. She, her husband and four children emigrated to this country in 1851 and they lived near Youngstown, Ohio until 1853, when they came to this place, where they lived comfortably until now. she was a virtuous wife and an obliging and unfaltering neighbour. She was greatly respected by those she leaves behind. A numerous crowd came to escort her to her final home the following Sunday, ministered in the house by the Rev G. C. Chadock, of the Independents in Alton. Her mortal remains were buried in Monticello Cemetery. HER ONLY SISTER
I would like "Tarian y Gweithwyr" to pick up this article [it did so, reproducing the report on 12 March 1885]
Some bonus info on Catherine Thomas' antecedents
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1841 - Llanguick parish [potentially in Pontardawe]
Rees Jones 40
Mary Jones 40
Wm Jones 15
Evan Jones 15 [Eynon]
David Jones 10
Jennet Jones 10
Elizabeth Jones 9
John Jones 7
Thomas Jones 5
Catherine Jones 3
Hannah Jones 9 Mo
1851 - Margam
Rees Jones 54
Mary Jones 54
Eynon Jones 26 - b unreadable, Breconshire [transcribed as Buckinghamshire]
David Jones 24
John Jones 18
Thomas Jones 16
Catherine Jones 14
Hannah Jones 12
Evan Jones 2
Eynon Jones
Born 21 Jan 1825
Baptism 13 Feb 1825, Llangwick, Pant-teg Alltwen Carmel (Independent)
Father: Rhys Jones
Mother: Mary
sadly i can't find a baptism for William Jones born to Rhys and Mary or which confirms the date of birth on William R Jones' gravestone in N Alton
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Wow, this is fantastic information, I really cant thank you enough!
The sisters definitely married two brothers, and it appears that Ann's daughter from her first marriage married a third Jones brother :o
The 'only sister' reference is interesting though, as I'm pretty sure that there was a 3rd sister, Gwenllian, who may have died in her late 20's. I'm awaiting a possible death certificate for her but I have her marriage certificate which shows she was married from Moss Row and that her father was David Thomas. Her daughter, Ann Davis born 1848, also lived with both Ann (1851) and Catherine (1861).
The Ohio information is really interesting too as Ann Davis later moved there, so there may be another link there that I wasn't aware of.
Thank you really isn't enough, I'm thrilled to bits with all this!
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There are some more interesting articles
A letter from a T J Adams of North Alton regarding the wooden leg of the Mexican commander Santa Anna being in the Museum of War, Arts & Treasures, Springfield, Illinois, where works one David Jenkins, South walian born
JENKINS - 2 February 1886, in Alton, Illinois, after two hard days on his death bed with congestion of the stomach, aged 49, Richard Jenkins, formerly of Moss Row, Aberdare. He emigrated with his parents to this country in 1851. He was a quiet and unassuming man about whom everyone who knew him had a good word. He leaves a widow and daughter to grieve, allong with a multitude of relatives and neighbours. The funeral was minstered by the Rev L. A. Abbott (B.), Alton, and by his graveside were his brothers from the Oddfellows, of which society he was a respected member. he was buried in the family plot in Alton
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Mabel, I'm squealing with excitement at all of this and my family are looking at me as if I'm quite mad ;D
I have to log off now and spend some time with them (*sigh*) but tomorrow I will be frantically typing it all up with a huge grin on my face, thanks to you.
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Thomas Jenkins appears to have become a Minister - there's a reference to such a man, raised in Moss Row Aberdare, taking a funeral in Plymouth, Pennsylvania
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birth place for Eynon is the same as his father's, Ystradgynlais. Brother David also born there, Evan aged 2 is a grandson and born Merthyr Tydfil, others all born Llanguicke.
;)
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here's Eynon Jones, with his parents and siblings, immigrating en masse in 1852. No William though
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939V-RMT2-Z?i=316&cc=1849782
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Thank you. William, Ann & Ann's children emigrated in 1851, all using the surname Jones.
Match of the Day is on so I've snuck away from the family for a while to start typing up.... ;)