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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (East Riding & York) => Topic started by: Barbaricbarb on Wednesday 25 October 17 19:41 BST (UK)
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Hi there- be warned it's a bit long winded!
I have been trying (for a few years now) to trace a marriage for a Joseph Anthony (born 1802) and Rghoda Moreton (b 1824). They start a family in 1843 in Beverley and have 5 children there between 1844 and 1850 before travelling to Deptford London and settling there.
I have previously tried to locate Joseph on the 1841 census without any definite success. However there is a Joseph Anthony in Kingston upon Hull of a similar age as a Tanner, living with a ?Letitia (poor quality of document) as a wife of same age and a son Winslow born 1833 (not in the county). Joseph is not with them in 1851 and Letitia/Lella and Winslow are in Beverley- after this they both appear to vanish- I haven't found death, marriage, migration etc.. Joseph (a tanner) in 1851 is at the home of his 'wife' Rhoda's sibling so presumably en route to Deptford. I have found a marriage of Joseph to a Letitia Roberts in Buckinghamshire in 1822 so think this is Josephs first marriage.
So I'm working on the theory that Joseph somehow met Rhoda around 1841ish and they started a life together without the official documentation and continued that way.
Other facts I do know- Joseph was born and baptised in 1802 in Burnham with Ulph Norfolk (his father Giles was around the area as part of his military service- he and his Norfolk wife Sarah Bolding eventually went back to Buckinghamshire- Giles' home county). Rhoda is born in Buckinghamshire and her family are split by the 1841 census (her mother dies when she is 8 ).
Joseph serves in the 6th Warwickshire Foots regiment 1826-1830- is retired due to infirmity. The 5 children born in Beverly to Joseph and Rhoda have their mother as Anthony formerly Moreton.
So my questions are:
Has anyone come across this family in the Kingston upon Hull / Beverley area and able to shed any more light on the possibility that the Joseph for both families is the same?
Is there any parish / newspaper references that may help shed light upon this?
What happens to Letitia and Winslow after 1851?
Am I barking up the wrong tree?????
I know divorce was expensive so prohibitive in a 'poor mans' relationship breakdown so I think a second family chance is possibly what happened here?
Any other bright ideas??
Many thanks in advance
Barbara
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I wonder if this is Winslow Anthony...
PROBATE: Joseph Winslow HANCOCK
Labourer, died 22 Feb 1888 in Beverley, YKS
Late of Beckside in Beverley,
Will proved 20 Apr 1888 by Mary HANCOCK of Beckside, widow,
Effects £25
In 1852 he married Mary PECK in 1852 Beverley; he's listed on FreeBMD as Joseph ANCOCK.
In 1861, Beverley, he is Joseph HANCOCK 29, b High Whikeham, Buckinghamshire.
In 1871, Beverely, he is Joseph HANCOCK 39, b London, Middlesex - and he now has amongst his children, Giles age 7.
In 1881, Beverley, he is Joseph HANCOCK 49, b Beverley, Yorkshire
In 1888, he died registered in Beverley as Joseph Winslow HANCOCK listed as age 56.
I note, too, on the 1851 Census for 'Lella' amd Winslow, she is stated to be born in Buckinghamshire. HO107 Piece 2359. Folio 520. pG16
Joseph Winslow HANCOCK, buried St Nicholas, Yorkshire
http://www.gravestonephotos.com/public/gravedetails.php?grave=275355&scrwidth=1258
Cheers
AMBLY
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Marriage of Joseph Ancock (he signs as such) and Mary Peck - 20 December 1852 - he is 20, a bachelor, Labourer of Beckside. Father: Joseph, Labourer. Mary is 17, a spinster of Beckside. No father given.
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Thank you Ambly and BumbleB- that's certainly worth more food for thought. I'll take a look later
Barbara
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Do you think Letitia married a Hancock for him to get that surname? I can't see a marriage for her.
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Do you think Letitia married a Hancock for him to get that surname? I can't see a marriage for her.
Who knows Millepede? The truth is out there somewhere- trouble is it's not what's all cracked up to be where ceremonies and censuses are concerned in the past.........
The 1861 census says he is born in High Wycombe (misspelt on the census) and that's the area his ancestors are from - so it's a lead I'm going to persue anyway and maybe might finally also find his baptism which may also help
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I was thinking if Joseph and Letitia did marry in 1822 and Winslow wasn't born until 1833 it would be likely they had more children together.
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I was thinking if Joseph and Letitia did marry in 1822 and Winslow wasn't born until 1833 it would be likely they had more children together.
I've not found any of them so far............
Joseph was in the military from 1826 to 1830 so there could have been a gap over that period - they are proving to be quite a challenge.
Still haven't found Letitia/Lella after 1851- was trying all sorts of permutations and omissions to help the search last night................... Unless she had a complete name change............
Haven't found any plausible 'official' reason for Winslows name switch from Anthony to Hancock either- unless they really did not want to be associated with the name..........wonder how easy it was to get away with it back then?
Barbara
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Could check out this death for elimination
Letitia Anthony
Mar 1886 Amersham
age 68
No she looks to be the Letitia married to William Anthony sorry.
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I had seen that but it puts her 16 years younger (birth 1802)
There is a Leticia Anthony born 1818 in Chenies and a Leticia Floyd married a William Anthony in 1838 in Amersham so I think that the death belongs to this Leticia and not Josephs one. I think Williams Letitia is also the one listed in Kelly's directory/ post office Directory in Chenies as a straw bonnet maker in 1854 & 1877- is not on the 1883 or later ones
so
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
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Haven't found any plausible 'official' reason for Winslows name switch from Anthony to Hancock either- unless they really did not want to be associated with the name..........wonder how easy it was to get away with it back then?
It's not illegal to change your name & be known by any name you choose but with all the stigma with identity theft etc. I suppose it wouldn't be as easy as it was 20 yrs ago?
Annie
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Haven't found any plausible 'official' reason for Winslows name switch from Anthony to Hancock either- unless they really did not want to be associated with the name..........wonder how easy it was to get away with it back then?
It's not illegal to change your name & be known by any name you choose but with all the stigma with identity theft etc. I suppose it wouldn't be as easy as it was 20 yrs ago?
Annie
Maybe not. It would have been easier to change and surrounding people get used to it when moving to a new town but he remains in the same one where he would have been known for 10 years as Winslow Anthony and then to change to Joseph Winslow Hancock..............
I've been trawling that localities burial records to check to see if he and his mother had died and buried there 1851-1861 but it doesn't appear so (just to double check)
I guess I may just add Winslow to the main tree with his descendants and see if any DNA matched crop up (that is assuming that Joseph was his dad anyway as that would be the only link)....
People lead such complicated lives- it never changes!
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Just to throw some more confusion at it, did you notice that the 1841 says that 'Lella' was born in India?
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Joseph (a tanner) in 1851 is at the home of his 'wife' Rhoda's sibling
... and did you notice a Winslow Moreton (aged 70) on the previous page - possibly one of Rhoda's relatives? (EDIT - I think that is Rhoda's father?)
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Oh dear this one is getting stranger and stranger :o
Had not noticed birthplace India. I thought she was from Buckinghamshire :-\
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Is there a link here between the "wives" families Moreton and Roberts
In 1851 Winslow Moreton is with a Hopkins family. The wife Elizabeth Hopkins I think was Elizabeth Roberts and wasn't Letitia called Roberts?
Elizabeth marriage 1828 to Benjamin. Elizabeth born 1802 High Wycombe.
That links both families to the name Winslow but needs more investigation for sure.
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Just to throw some more confusion at it, did you notice that the 1841 says that 'Lella' was born in India?
Hi Jomot
Yes I had but not convinced...................
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Joseph (a tanner) in 1851 is at the home of his 'wife' Rhoda's sibling
... and did you notice a Winslow Moreton (aged 70) on the previous page - possibly one of Rhoda's relatives? (EDIT - I think that is Rhoda's father?)
Hi Shaun J
Yes that is Rhodas father 2 doors down. Mary Austin (in the household Rhoda Joseph etc are staying at) is her eldest sister.
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Is there a link here between the "wives" families Moreton and Roberts
In 1851 Winslow Moreton is with a Hopkins family. The wife Elizabeth Hopkins I think was Elizabeth Roberts and wasn't Letitia called Roberts?
Elizabeth marriage 1828 to Benjamin. Elizabeth born 1802 High Wycombe.
That links both families to the name Winslow but needs more investigation for sure.
I hadn't seen that.....................Think I'll investigate
Thanks Millepede
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There was also a Winslow Page down the road a couple of miles from High Wycombe, at Hughenden. He was a blacksmith, born circa 1810.
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Well Elizabeth Hopkins nee Roberts is also delightfully economic with her birthplace too!
She's born in Worcester on 2 censuses (1851 & 1871) and in Bradley Warwick in 1 (1861)
She could be one of many people at the moment..........