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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Berkshire => Topic started by: newburychap on Friday 27 October 17 18:17 BST (UK)
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I have a photograph dating from 1917 (give or take a year) featuring a man who is described but not named.
Facts given in the caption to the photo:
He is the son of Mrs Smith of 208 Southampton Street, Reading.
He worked as a postman for 12 years - some if not all of the time at Newbury.
He served in the Boer War.
He re-enlisted at the start of the war.
He was a prisoner of war in Germany having been captured in September 1914.
So who was he? I have been unable to find a Newbury postman called Smith, but his mother may have remarried.
For info:
Some Newbury postmen in 1913 (there will have been others):
Brown, W
Burden, J
Bolton, J E
Clark, C
Fleck, W
Freeman, W
Goddard, F
Harris, W
Ilses, L
Jordon, F
Start, W
Taylor, E G
West, B
Winterbourne, R
Witts, J R
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1911 census
Moderator comment: 1911 census details removed. Our policy has not changed
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=355486.0
Maybe you can cross-reference these to srmy records.
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Hi, I searched the address online and came up with this article with 4 photos of prisoners of war, one entitled "PRISONERS AT DOEBERITZ. One of the men in this group is the son of Mrs. Smith, 208, Southampton St., Reading."
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kyk/
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1901 has a Private Samuel Smith in the barracks at Cowley aged 19.
RG13/1383 f14p12.......born Reading St Giles.
Tazzie
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1891 has Samuel Smith b. 1882 Reading at 138 Southampton Street, Reading with his father Samuel and MOTHER ELIZABETH.
RG12 / 995 Fol 39 PG 29
Added: For anyone looking he is listed as Sam, not Samuel.
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Look...looking good.
Tazzie
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Sam Smith was appointed a postman at Reading in Nov 1910. He is listed on the original image as Samuel, but the "uel" at the end of his name has been crossed through. Image on Postal Service Appointment Books.
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Reading Private Residence Directories
Kellys 1919
Smith Mrs E. 208 Southampton St
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Reading Mercury - Saturday 28 January 1939
The Head postmaster of Reading yesterday [Friday] presented the Imperial Service Medal and parchment to Mr Sam Smith, of 31 Palmerstone Road, Early, who retired from his duties as postman on Dec. 24th. Mr Smith who retired for reasons of health had completed over thirty - seven years in the service of the state. He commenced his duties as a postman in Reading in Nov. 1909 and before that he served in the army from January 1901 to August 1909. He was recalled to colours in August 1914, and remained in active service until March 1919., when he left the army with the rank of company-sergeant-major. During his 29 years service in the post office he discharged his duties with zeal and ability and he was a great favourite with his colleagues. He would have retired in the ordinary course of events four years hence.
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There was another son and he died in the war.
Lance Corporal
SMITH, SIDNEY ALFRED
Service Number 20020
Died 31/07/1917
Aged 24
6th Bn.
Royal Berkshire Regiment
Son of Emma Smith, of 208, Southampton St., Reading.
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I cant find a birth for Sam / Samuel but found this.
Name Sidney Alfred Smith
Residence Reading, Berkshire, England
Christening Date 02 Mar 1893
Christening Place St. Marys, Reading, Berkshire, England
Birth Date 30 Jan 1893
Father's Name Edmund Smith
Mother's Name Emma Smith
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Deaths Jun 1911
Smith Edmund 53 Reading 2c 213
Burial index FindMyPast
Edmund Smith Birth year 1858 Death year 1911 Reading
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I dont have access to 1911 census, can someone help please? I still cant find a birth for Sam, im wondering if he was born before his mother married so maybe registered under her maiden name or another name if she was married before??
Father Edmund
Mother Emma
Edmund
George
Sidney
and hopefully Sam / Samuel
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Hi, I searched the address online and came up with this article with 4 photos of prisoners of war, one entitled "PRISONERS AT DOEBERITZ. One of the men in this group is the son of Mrs. Smith, 208, Southampton St., Reading."
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kyk/
The photo that started me off is another one from Berkshire and the War - which clearly identifies which of the men he is. In this one he could be the one seated, second from left.
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Maybe a possibility??
Marriage:
HARTE Emma Elizabeth Reading 2c 607 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Maycock Edwin Richard Reading 2c 607
PAICE Annie Ethel Reading 2c 607
PAIGE Annie Ethel Reading 2c 607
Smith Edmund Reading 2c 607<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Possibly Emma Elizabeth's surname mistakenly recorded as Harte instead of Start.
Here with her parents in 1871:
RG10/2031/176
Uplyme, Devonshire
George Start Head 40 Musbury, Devonshire
Jemima Start Wife 37 Uplyme, Devonshire
Emma Start Daughter 12 Uplyme, Devonshire<<<<<<<<<<
Emily Start Daughter 10 Uplyme, Devonshire
Elizabeth Start Daughter 8 Uplyme, Devonshire
Ann Start Daughter 6 Uplyme, Devonshire
George Start Son 4 Uplyme, Devonshire
Alfred Start Son 0 Uplyme, Devonshire
Her parents marriage:
Marriages Mar qtr 1858
George Start & Jemima Start Axminster 5b 23
Emma Elizabeth's birth:
START, EMMA ELIZABETH mothers maiden name SANSOM
GRO Reference: 1858 D Quarter in AXMINSTER Volume 05B Page 1
Smith Family in the 1891 census:
RG12/992/81 p 10
Wolseley Street Reading
Edmund Smith Head 32 b Reading, Berkshire, Bricklayer's labourer
Emma Smith Wife 32 Lyme Regis, Dorsetshire
Wm Hy Smith Son 9 Reading, Berkshire *******************
Emily L Smith Daughter 5 Reading, Berkshire
Edmund V SmithSon 3 Reading, Berkshire
Geo Smith Son 1 Reading, Berkshire
Bessie Smith Sister 26 Lyme Regis, Dorsetshire
*******************Note: William Henry born before the marriage
Birth reg:
STARTE, WILLIAM HENRY - (no maiden name entered)
1882 Jun Quarter READING Volume 02C Page 363
SMITH, EMILY LOUISE mothers maiden name START
1885 Dec Quarter READING Volume 02C Page 349
SMITH, EDMUND VICTOR mothers maiden name START
1887 Sep Quarter READING Volume 02C Page 353
This looks like Emma in 1881:
Reading St Mary, Berkshire, England
Coley Hill<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
RG11/1301/74 p 12
Emma Start 24 b Devon Domestic servant
So could the W Start in the list of Newbury Postmen that you mention be the illegitimate sone of Emma Elizabeth Smith (nee Start).
Family search have this for William Henry Starte which records him as a postman(3rd one down):
https://tinyurl.com/y7bm46l8 (note where born)
Death for him:
Deaths Dec 1939
Starte William H 57 Newbury 2c 671
Kind Regards
Chris
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Reading Mercury - Saturday 28 January 1939
The Head postmaster of Reading yesterday [Friday] presented the Imperial Service Medal and parchment to Mr Sam Smith, of 31 Palmerstone Road, Early, who retired from his duties as postman on Dec. 24th. Mr Smith who retired for reasons of health had completed over thirty - seven years in the service of the state. He commenced his duties as a postman in Reading in Nov. 1909 and before that he served in the army from January 1901 to August 1909. He was recalled to colours in August 1914, and remained in active service until March 1919., when he left the army with the rank of company-sergeant-major. During his 29 years service in the post office he discharged his duties with zeal and ability and he was a great favourite with his colleagues. He would have retired in the ordinary course of events four years hence.
He certainly a possibility, but there are niggling issues.
The photo: https://www.berkshirestories.org.uk/archive/books/berkshire-and-the-war-the-reading-standard-1916-1919/berkshire-and-the-war-the-reading-standard-volume-3/131569-berkshire-and-the-war-the-reading-standard-pictorial-record-volume-3-p-625
The caption reads: The centre man sitting is the son of Mrs Smith, 208, Southampton Street, Reading. He served all through the Boer War and after twelve year's service as a postman at Newbury enlisted for the present war, being captured in September 1914.
Sam Smith did not serve all through the Boer War, doesn't seem to have been a Newbury postie, didn't do 12 years with the PO pre-war, and a POW is unlikely to rise to CSM. And, as shown, he was not the son of Emma Smith of 208 Southampton St.
Emma Smith did have a son William Henry, who was not with the family in 1901 (typical of Boer War veterans). No obvious 1911 entry.
There is a picture of Sidney Smith of 208 Southampton St in Berkshire at War (p525) - the caption notes that his brother is a POW. So I'm getting really interested in William Henry, the only brother old enough (just about) to have served all through the Boer War.
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Maybe a possibility??
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Family search have this for William Henry Starte which records him as a postman(3rd one down):
https://tinyurl.com/y7bm46l8 (note where born)
Kind Regards
Chris
William Henry Start looks a strong possibility - need to look at Boer War records.
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Good finds Chris! I was just looking at William Henry as he is the only son of Emma Smith who is old enough to have served in the Boer War.
His birth reg is on the GRO site, with a dash where the mother's maiden name should be - suggesting a possible illegitimate birth.
STARTE, WILLIAM HENRY -
GRO Reference: 1882 J Quarter in READING Volume 02C Page 363
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Doesn't seem to have served in Boer War as Start - but there are plenty of Smiths!
I see he was born in 1882 and his mother married Edmund Smith in 1885. I think I am persuaded that Chris has found my man!
Thanks Chris and all who looked into this little problem.
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Yes, I think Chris has found your man.
I've just found William Henry in the Postal Service Appointment Books, listed as Wm. H. Starte, appointed at Newbury January 1908.
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Yes, I think Chris has found your man.
I've just found William Henry in the Postal Service Appointment Books, listed as Wm. H. Starte, appointed at Newbury January 1908.
Interesting, but not an ideal find - if the info in the photo caption is correct he would have started with the PO in 1902.
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Yes, I think Chris has found your man.
I've just found William Henry in the Postal Service Appointment Books, listed as Wm. H. Starte, appointed at Newbury January 1908.
Interesting, but not an ideal find - if the info in the photo caption is correct he would have started with the PO in 1902.
Yes, that thought crossed my mind too, but he may have been a postman in another area prior to his appointment at Newbury in 1908. Having said that, I haven't been able to find an earlier record for him :-\.
I'm not sure how complete or accurate the British Postal Appointment Books are. I have an ancestor who I know was a postman from census records and a photo I have of him in uniform (my avatar), but I cannot find him in the Appointment Books.