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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cumberland => Topic started by: K Rees on Friday 27 October 17 23:07 BST (UK)
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Seeking some birth /baptism details for a John Rogers b. 1885 / 1886 Haverigg, Whitehaven, Cumerland; that is, who was the father?
I suspect that his father was Martin Rogers and mother Selina with a sister Sarah J. Rogers 2 years older born in USA.
Trying to link to:1891County Cumberland Parish Millom
Ecclesiastical Parish ST GEORGES Registration District Bootle
Selina Rodgers Wife F 38 Cornwall, England
William Prater Son M 14 North America
Eliza Prater Daughter F 11 Cornwall, England
Sarah J Rodgers Daughter F 8 America
John Rodgers Son M 6 Cumberland, England
I am having trouble linking to what happened in the USA; to a subsequent move back to Lanner, Gwennap, Cornwall; and subsequent death of Martin Rogers 3 Sep 1894, a gold miner, dying of TB.
Selina Rogers of Lanner was named as widow/informant on Martin Rogers' death certificate.
By 1991, mother and two chn moved to Budock, Falmouth.
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Did you check freebmd for his birth registration? www.freebmd.org.uk There is this birth but as Rogers
Births March qtr 1886
John Rogers Whitehaven 10b 617
GRO online shows mothers maiden name as Sealby
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
freebmd has this marriage
June qtr 1880
Joseph Rogers Whitehaven 10b 858
Mary Isabella Sealby
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Then we have this one
Births March qtr 1885
John Rodgers Bootle 10b 674
Mothers maiden name Pascoe
Marriages March qtr 1885
Margaret Ann Pascoe Bootle 10b 792
John Rodgers
Did John marry? Who did he name as his father on his marriage cert?
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Thank you Carole,
The mother's name Sealby means a different family altogether. I was hoping Trounce.
I did purchase Martin Rogers GRO death 1894 which came through pdf last night.
I will now go back to Gwennap records and look for a second marriage for a Selina Rogers, who at 43, would be possible after the death of her husband Martin (44).
Maybe the were childless.
Martin's occupation as gold miner, indicated my USA search (one brother); Aust (two other brothers).
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Eliza Prater Daughter F 11 Cornwall, England
Eliza's birth reg is on freebmd in 1878 Redruth and mmn was Pascoe
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Wrong family for sure. Thank you Carole.
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The Prater issues I have looked at before.
Articles in Illinois on death of Prater mining accident. It seems that this Mrs Selina Rogers living with a widowed man and two families of kids Rogers and Prater together.
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1901 Selina is Rogers aged 48 b Gwennap but shown as married not widowed. Sarah & John are with her
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We have two Selina Rogers. One born in Gwennap and one born in Phillack/Hayle c1851 maybe bp. 1852 St. Erth.
Martin Rogers b. 1850 Redruth (Lanner, Gwennap) m. 1875 Redruth. 1881 living at Penstruthal. Correct person; mother Elizabeth Rogers (nee Thomas) died 1887 Penstruthal (Selina Rogers present).
1891 Census Martin and Selina Bell Lanner, Gwennap.
1894 Death of Martin Rogers Lanner Gwennap, Selina informant and widow.
I need to stay back in Gwennap to see if widowed Selina Rogers married again and thus, not showing up in Lanner 1901.
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Death Selina Rogers Jun Q 1910 age 65 Redruth 5c 139
This may be the answer for her death.
Thank you very much for your help Carole.
Keith
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1861 has Selina Pascoe aged 11 b Gwennap - parents John & Jane
1861 has these Selina's b Phillack
Bond 1850
Carbines 1853
Floyd 1856
Phillips 1854
TROUNCE 1851 - father John
Williams 1855
Marriages June qtr 1875
Martin Rogers Redruth 5c 344
Selina Trounce
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Checking GRO online there are no Rogers/Rodgers/Trounce births between 1875 - 1894
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Selina Trounce bp 18 Apr 1852 St. Erth to John and Susan looks like the right Selina.
Royal Cornwall Gazette Cornwall, England
3 Jul 1869
CORNWALL MIDSUMMER.SESSIONS
b THEFT BY A SERVANT AT CROWAN. Selina Trounce, 19, servant, was indicted for stealing a hat and feather, a cloth jacket, and other things, the property of Richd
Maybe Selina also the same that was a little cold one day in Crowan, which I think is not far away from Redruth.
Death in 1910 of a Selina Rogers, may now be ruled out. Looks like a John Alfred Rogers and a Selina Rogers died in Church Town (also near Redruth) with in 7 days of each other.
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Selina Trounce (Rogers) was only born around Dec 1850 (she is 4mths old in 1851) so the 1910 death is too old for her and - as you say - is more likely to be the 1901 entry married to John Alfred
I can't find any marriage or death for Selina after 1901
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She is indexed as Selina Rodgers in 1911 and is living in Liverpool. I cannot post full details as 1911 lookups are not allowed on Rootschat
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Thank you for your follow up on Selina. Yes, maybe Selina married one of her husband's relatives, who also may have been widowed, and thus, the same name.
I think that I have found a descendant of one of Selina's brother; you never know, folklore may have been passed down (if they respond).
There is a group working on this Rogers family. We can not find the death of John Rogers, the brother of Martin (half brother) in Victoria. One John Rogers died in Oct 1878 Stawell, a mine accident. We have now just found that his estate did go to one Elizabeth Lawn in Cornwall, an aunty. We also just found that a Benjamin Lawn was a witness at the marriage of Charles Rogers in Lanner, Cornwall, another brother of the above Martin, so with many people contributing, we are getting closer.
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Thank you, very much. I will look that reference up now.
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Sorry - I found the 1911 entry on Family Search so can post link to entry. Note she still shows as married
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kyz/
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I think that the Selina Rogers/Rodgers in Liverpool 1911 is going to be the wrong one. I think that she MAY be a Selina Sealby/Pascoe from Gwennap, who also married or lived with a Thomas or Wm Prater in Illinois, meaning that her Rogers husband has died and she then lived with Prater in Michigan. At one stage a Wm Prater and two Rogers chn were listed as her children in Lancashire and Michigan. I remember tracing the boy Prater back to the USA. His father died in a mining accident there.
Would the right Selina Rogers, nee Trounce, please stand up and tell us if you had any children with Martin Rogers died 3 Sep 1894 Lanner, Gwennap, and where did you die post being an informant and widow at the time of his death!
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I don't think there is a Selina Sealby but the 1911 entry is definitely the Selina Pascoe born Gwennap. However - there is no Selina Pascoe marriage to a Rodgers/Rogers in England. She still says she is married in 1911 and has been married 29yrs (1881)
But - the 1891 entry you posted shows 2 Prater children born before 1882 and a Rodgers child born USA 1882/3 indicating a marriage in the USA
If you are researching Selina Trounce who married Martin Rogers - there are no birth entries so there were no children born to them in England. Martin died in England 1894 but I can't find an 1891 entry for him.
Selina aged 38 b Phillack is indexed as Rogen in 1891 married but living alone and shown as living on own means RG12 Piece 1845 Folio 9 Page 11
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That is a great find with Selina as Rogen in 1891. We have her mother-in-law Elizabeth Rogers, nee Thomas dying 27 Jul 1878 at Penstruthal, with Selina as the informant. I will now be interested to see if your find for Selina, to see if she was living in the Rogers cottage in Penstruthal. Martin's death in 1894 was recorded as Lanner Gwennap, and another record says Bell, Lanner. I tried to map the Penstruthal location which was close to the top of where Rough Street, Lanner Hill meets the Penstruthal farm.
No, I could not find Martin Rogers in 1891.
His death certificate (I purchased) says that his was a gold miner, definately indicated to me he was overseas; however, in saying that, I have not traced his re-entry back into England before his death in 1894. I can trace his Gwennap/Illogan Rogers relatives in Natal; Chile; Bendigo and Michigan all at this time.
Thank you
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Thank you
Selina Rogers is living with Urias Rogers.
I know who he is, a first cousin of Martin Rogers, her husband. Urias and his brother Arnold went to Victoria in 1857, as did Martin's older half brothers James Rogers (b.1831 Penventon) and John Rogers (b. 1833 Penventon). Urias returned to Gwennap. Arnold and his cousin James Rogers died in Bendigo and Martin's brother John Rogers (my main research interest) died somewhere and time time we think in Victoria, a loner. He was separated from his wife Julia Phillips.
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Sorry, I mis-read that Census address for Selina Rogers in 1891. Lodging house with maybe Annie Symons at Carharrack village and not with Urias Rogers.