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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Bentham on Saturday 28 October 17 17:44 BST (UK)
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Henry Herdman, 1715, Gawin Herdman, 1717 and Richard Herdman 1728 share a common father, John Herdman possibly married to Sarah? I believe John's brother, Thomas, was an ancestor of the famous Liverpool artist W.G. Herdman. The name Gawin or Gowan is common throughout the families trees and it is possible that the father of John and Thomas was gawin hardman who married Agnes Fox in 1681.
Has anyone any research knowledge of the family of W.G. Herdman and the links to the Pilling, Cockerham and Garstang area of Lancashire?
Thank you
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Ok. Does anyone have knowledge of a marriage between a John Herdman and a Sarah about 1710. It would be in mid-Lancashire. Although I know it happened I cannot find reference anywhere.
Thanks
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Hi
There's a licence for a marriage in 1713
John Hardman and Sarah Fox at Middleton Lancashire 15.10.1713
He is a chapman with bondsman George Hardman also a chapman.
He is from Middleton and she from Paddock.
It looks like she may have been baptised in Garstang 20 .3.1698 d of Henry which would fit for the baptism of John s of Gawin Hardman/Herdman 30.3.1689 also there.
Ciderdrinker
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Ciderdrinker,
Thanks for that but I do not think it is the couple I am looking for. These appear to be more in the Bury area and it is the change from Hardman to Herdman (the name I am looking for) that confuses me.
Thanks
Bentham
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John and George Hardman were chapmen so may have travelled around. Middleton may just have been his abode at time of marriage. Admittedly it's a long way from Cockerham.
Where's Paddock?
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Had a look at surnames interest on Lancashire FH&HS site. No result for Herdman. A member is researching Hardman in Cockerham and Thurnham, late 18th-19thC.
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Have you seen this? Burial St Mary, Lancaster, 4th July 1694. Jennet Hardman. Abode Middleton. In light of this, the marriage at Middleton of John Hardman & Sarah seems closer to home. Perhaps not the present Middleton in the south of Lancashire, but a place in the north.
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Hi, No idea where Paddock is but on the info I saw she is down as Prestwich. The Church was St Leonard's, Middleton and John Hardman from Ainsworth. All around Bury. Same date etc.
There are a lot of interconnected Herdmans in and around the area and up as far as Cumbria. It is often difficult to separate the families as the names are frequently duplicated.
Thanks
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There is a Middleton which is a historic part of Lancaster but tying it in with Prestwich, Ainsworth and
St Leonard's Church I have tended to ignore the John and Sarah Hardman marriage as being the one I am after. Do you know if the person researching Herdman has links to WG Herdman of Liverpool?
Thanks
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There is a Middleton which is a historic part of Lancaster but tying it in with Prestwich, Ainsworth and
St Leonard's Church I have tended to ignore the John and Sarah Hardman marriage as being the one I am after. Do you know if the person researching Herdman has links to WG Herdman of Liverpool?
Thanks
You would need to contact the LFH&HS member to find out.
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Ok, thanks I will maybe see how to do that.
Bentham
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.... and it is the change from Hardman to Herdman (the name I am looking for) that confuses me.
Thanks
Bentham
From parish register transcripts on LAN OPC it seems the various spellings of the surnames began to standardise around mid 18thC, but only as far as individual parishes.
Looking at the various Gawin Herdman families:
1740s-1750s:
HARDMAN St. Helen, Garstang
HERDMAN St. Mary, Lancaster
HERDMAN St. John the Baptist, Pilling
As an illustration there was Mary HERDMAN, daughter of Laurence HERDMAN of Quarmore, baptised at St. Mary, Lancaster, 1751; Laurence HARDMAN of Quarmore in Lancaster parish married at St. Helen, Garstang 1753. Possibly same person, or at least, same family?
Earlier there were more spelling variations.
HARDMAN (Garstang 1680s, Cockerham 1690s)
HARDMON (Garstang 1690s)
HEARDMAN (Cockerham 1680s, 1701, 1729)
HARDMOND (Garstang 1690s)_
HERDMAN Lancaster 1709/10, Cockerham 1721, Pilling 1715 & 1717, 1728, 1734)
E.g. Baptism 5th May 1728, St. John the Baptist, Pilling. Richard Herdman. There is a note on LAN OPC " [HARDMAN in BTs]"
(All info from Lancashire Online Parish Clerks site.)
Were the Gawin Hardman/ Herdman families of Wyredale, Quernmore, Cockerham and Pilling related, or are you still sorting them out?
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Lancashire Family History & Heraldry Society http://www.lfhhs.org
It has a Fylde branch and a Lancaster & Morecambe branch. There's a members forum for online queries. Some branches have a Facebook page.
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I am still trying to sort many of them out but I do believe there may be a common ancestor. Possibly Gawine Heardman in the early 1600s. Laurence Herdman you mention is a distinct, although I am sure related, family. For the line I am following one of the keys is Edward Herdman born in 1777. He was a farmer who worked and had children born in various places throughout Lancs and ended up a pub/hotel owner in Birkenhead (at least I hope he did). Actually various people of the ones you identify had careers in various aspects of the alcohol trade.
Thanks again
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I have the earliest name of Gawin Herdman and variant, here -
GAWIN HEARDMAN b c1592 – d 17 Aug 1666 at Middleton, a Yeoman (Wills Proved 28 Sept 1666). He married twice at Lancaster, his son RICHARD HEADMAN/HARDMAN c 21 Feb 1629 – d 17 March 1682, a Tanner. He died at Lower Wyersdale (Garstang) (Proved wills on 17 Mar 1682). Gawin named mentioned in the wills. Gawin Hardman/Hirdman b c 1658 - 25 March 1721 at Cockerham. His son John b 30 Mar 1689 at Garstang d 12 Sept 1749 at Pilling. A Husbandman (Proved Wills on 18 Nov 1749). His son Gawin Herdman b 24 July 1717 at Pilling – d 16 Apr 1789 at Lancaster. His son Gawin b 10 June 1746 at Lancaster – d 5 Aug 1830 at Cantsfield, Tunstall A Farmer, a well known and left right fortune amount of monies to his sons Edward of Masongill Hall in Parish of Thornton Lonsdale, Farmer, John of Newton, Whittington, Farmer, Henry, William & Richard of Cantsfield, Farmers & sister Ann of Cantsfield. He has 12 children and wife Hannah Jolly. Edward Herdman one of your direct ancestor.
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His son Gawin b 10 June 1746 at Lancaster – d 5 Aug 1830 at Cantsfield, Tunstall …… He has 12 children and wife Hannah Jolly.
Marriage 1st August 1772 St. Michael, Kirkham
Gowin Hardman - Pilling
Hannah Jolly - Larbrick
Since I posted on this thread I've discovered that my earliest ancestor in the direct female line was Ellen Hardman who married Thomas Moon at St. Michael, Kirkham, 17th June 1788, both of the parish.
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Many thanks to both Nephi29 and Maiden Stone. You have been very helpful. Hard to believe it was 2017 when I first posted regarding Herdman family.
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I identified Ellen Hardman as my 5x great-grandmother in my direct female line on Mothering Sunday 2018. :)
I have no idea which Ellen Hardman in Kirkham parish she was before her marriage.
The Moon-Hardman family was Catholic so when their names appeared in Kirkham parish registers it was mostly for marriages and burials. Thomas & Ellen Moon lived in Clifton cum Salwick township of Kirkham parish.