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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: heaven on Monday 30 October 17 01:09 GMT (UK)
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George was born 1860, son of my GG Grandfather George Glue (Convict arriving here in 1834) and Christina Laird.
He is one of 4 children,
William James Glue b 1855 my G Grandfather who changed his surname to Russell.
Kathleen Glue b 1858 and died aged 18,
Charles Glue b 1862 died aged 15
The only record I have been able to find for George is a birth Index B 1860 Reg in Plenty, Vic. He is listed as deceased on his mothers death certificate in 1926.
I have done all I know how to do, can someone please help me.
Incidently his parents separated when he was a young child and his father died in Adelaide in 1868
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It doesn't answer the question, but I presume you have seen this Glue thread on the father on Ancestry (https://www.ancestry.com.au/boards/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=4&p=surnames.glue). There seem to be a few people researching that Glue family.
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Thanks I have seen those posts quite some time back, I have found that, some people just can't be found!
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Death for a George RUSSELL son of George and Ctina LAIRD recorded in VIC bmds.
Reg #9439 CWOOD in 1921.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/indexsearch.doj
Essie
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Thanks Essie
This is correct, I didn't think to look for him under name of Russell, however it does throw the cat among the pigeons! One wonders why he lists his father as George Russell and not Glue
His mother Christina Laird remarried 9 April 1868 she states she was widowed since 1864, young George was about 8 at the time.
I have not been settled about the death of his father George Glue on 26 Sep 1868 in Adelaide,
somehow it doesn't seem right for 2 reasons, if he was still alive when Christina remarried she was a bigamist, and how and why would he be in Adelaide? However this was the only death I could find.
I spoke to the cemetery in Adelaide and was told there was no next of kin, he was not born in the country and is in a paupers grave! so I thought a death certificate wouldn't give me any more info.
Judy
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There is an on-line tree for a George RUSSELL, died 26 August 1921. It suggests that George was married 12 March 1890 to Mary RYAN at Kilmore, reg no 7782. There are 8 children listed to this couple.
Mary died before George according to this Death Notice from TROVE which lists 6 children.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/206716065
As to his father's name on his death record - perhaps the informant for the record did not know that he had another surname.
Judith
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Thanks Essie
This is correct, I didn't think to look for him under name of Russell, .................I have not been settled about the death of his father George Glue on 26 Sep 1868 in Adelaide,.....................I spoke to the cemetery in Adelaide and was told there was no next of kin, he was not born in the country and is in a paupers grave! so I thought a death certificate wouldn't give me any more info.
Judy
Hi Judy
A George Glue arrived in Adelaide from Sydney in October 1848 and had several criminal offences in Adelaide. His death was also reported.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/result?q=%22George+GLUE%22&l-state=South+Australia
SA death certificates in that era have no family information.
This same man appears to have had a son - Frederick Henry Adams GLEW born 13 Dec 1864, and a daughter Elizabeth Ann Adams GLUE born 5 Jun 1867, both with Harriet ADAMS. They then married on 10 FEB 1868, surname recorded as GLEN and his age as 62 and Harriet aged 28! Harriet GLUE aged 31 remarried in 1871.
Essie
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Judith and Essie Thank you both for helping me.
This George Russell and Mary Ryan are definitely my George, I have had a good look at the info given to me and it just fits
In regard to the Harriet Adams marriage I have seen an mulled over that many times but the dates just don't fit for G.G Grandfather George (Convict), which has bought me to the conclusion now that the death I thought was for My G.G. Grandfather in Adelaide more likely belongs to the husband of Harriet Adams not to me. So, that settles my mind, his death will now have to be found!
Thanks again Judy
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Do you know when your G Grandfather changed his name to RUSSELL? Was it a family name or do you think they just chose a random name? I wonder if the father changed his name also.
Judith
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I couldn't find a birth cert for G Grandfather William James, he married in 1887 under the name of Russell, then, when I eventually found his death cert he was listed as William James Glue (Alias Russell) his parents George and Christina were listed on this certificate, so this is the first I knew that we were originally Glues and not Russell, from this I was able to find his birth certificate, he was born in Kilsyth Vic.
From the records I have it seems his father was out of their life by the time William was about 9 years old and his brother George whom you have just found for me was about 4 years old. I have found the marriage cert for George Russell and Mary Jones on another tree and listed as his parents are William and Ctina Laird.
Russell isn't a familiar name in the family so they must have chosen it at random, also from the records they did keep in touch with their mother Ctina. G Grandfather William is buried with his mother. As for George their father whether he changed his name is not known
Judy
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... if he was still alive when Christina remarried she was a bigamist...
While it looks like in this case the wife claimed the husband had died and the Registrar look it on face value, there were also grounds for divorce in cases of desertion. Under The (Victorian) Marriage and Matrimonial Causes Statute 1864, a wife could present a petition to the Supreme Court for dissolution of the marriage on the ground, inter alia, "of adultery coupled with desertion without reasonable excuse for two years or upwards". Although not explicitly for desertion alone! Desertion alone seemed to be grounds only for an order of maintenance and apprehension of the husband. [https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdb//au/legis/vic/hist_act/tmamcs1864385 (https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdb//au/legis/vic/hist_act/tmamcs1864385)/]
... Russell isn't a familiar name in the family so they must have chosen it at random ...
It's interesting where these names come from. I found one in-law rellie who living in a certain street at one point, and seems to have adopted that street's name as his surname at some point later.
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Do you have the birth certificates for either/both George and William? Or the marriage cert for George snr and Christina? Wondering what occupation was put for George snr.
Judith
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This adds nothing but there is a very short account of the trial of George and Joseph GLUE (and others) at Horsham Quarter Sessions 30 June 1834.
Reported in
The Sussex Advertiser, or Lewes and Brighthelmston Journal (Lewes, England), Monday, July 07, 1834
....prisoners on charge of felony............................
George GLUE and Joseph GLUE for stealing at the parish of Rogate, four sacks of paoatoes, the property of John BUCKLE Esq, value 12s. Each transported for Seven Years.
According to the convict indent George, 25, was a bricklayer (good), married with 2 sons; Joseph, 35, farm servant, shepherd, is listed as married with a daughter. The conviction for George is listed as "stealing from a barn".
Could this death be George snr?? :-\
Reg Victoria, 1880, #7997
George GLEW, 70
Mother's name: Ann
One of the on-line trees has his mother as Ann, and PROV has this man's occupation as bricklayer, which is the occupation given on the convict indent. He leaves all to his wife Agnes GLEW. Agnes died in 1911.
From PROV
https://www.prov.vic.gov.au/explore-collection/explore-topic/wills-and-probates
George GLEW. Date of grant of probate: 24 Jan 1881; Date of death: 26 Sep 1880; Occupation: Bricklayer; Residence: Northcote. (Residence shown in document as High St, Northcote.
Funeral notice for this man:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/5980426
Death of Agnes:
1911 #14321
Agnes White GLEW, 92
Parents: Jas London, Ellen (Wardrop) Place of birth
Place of death: Ncote
Interestingly there is this birth:
Victoria, 1860, #1372
Jessie Isabella GLEW
Father's name: George
Mother's name: Agnes (Lowden)
Place of birth: NORT
Place of birth - Northcote? Did George father 2 children in 1860??
Jessie married in 1888
Victoria, 1888, #8479
Jessie Isabella GLEW
Louis CUNE
And died in 1890
Victoria 1890 #3798 Registration year1890
Jessie Isabella CUNE
Father: George GLEW Mother's name: Agnes (Loudon)
Place of death: Ncote
Could be barking up the wrong tree entirely. ::) ???
Judith
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Another daughter for George GLEW and his wife Agnes
Death Victoria 1885 #2907
Alice GLEW, 22
Parents: Geo., Agnes (Lowden)
Place of death: PRN ALF.HO
Death Notice for Alice:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/196960744
In Memoriam for Alice 1886
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/199449914
Can't see a birth reg for Alice.
Judith
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hi judith
George and Christina married in Kilmore. 28 july 1854, both of the parish of Bylands, Kilsyth she was only 17 years of age the marriage was by license and she had her fathers consent, both signed with a cross (no more info)
William Birth cert 25 May 1855, place Kilsyth, father George Glue occupation "Sawyer" born Sussex England , mother Christina Laird
William married as William Russell 2 May 1877 in Tasmania to Eliza Jane Biddle, occupation "Splitter"
William Death 1926 place Beech Forrest District, "timber worker" parents George Glue and Christina Kenny Nee Laird
George only indexes for B & D, however I did find a marriage cert on another tree, To Mary Ryan 12 march 1850 in Kilsyth Occupation "Labourer" Parents William Glue and Christina Laird.
The info you sent re convicts, there have been some errors on different docs, George was Single a Farm Labourer and Joseph married with 2 children he was the bricklayer. Joseph was Geeorge's nephew.
Any wonder one gets confused!! I don't know how you at Rootschat put it all together so quickly, I have been battling with George as I said for a very long time, so, thank you all very much
Judy
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So you don't think the George GLEW, d 1921, Victoria is the disappearing father of your man?
Judith
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Yes I do ! He is my missing George, I downloaded the death cert for him he died from (MinersDisease) listed his children also, the marriage for him and Mary Ryan place should be at Kilmore Not Kilsyth (my error) The deceased children are buried at the Kilmore Cemetery.
With your help and roots chat and some follow up research I have now been able to get him and his family together, There were actually 9 children, not 8, one child died in 1907,at 14 years of age (Trove) she was badly burnt as a result of burns, so bad she had to have her right arm amputated and she died from shock.
As I said before it amazes me that I can search for a long long time with no breakthrough and within a few hours you solve it.Thank you
Judy
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Just so there is no confusion thought I had better say The death for George 1921 is for the person of my original post born 1860
The missing father, also George is still not sorted I have a death for him in Adelaide in 1868 but not convinced it is actually him, only time and more research will give me that answer.
So much to think about I think my head is a bit addled!!!
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Sorry - my mistake. I meant to say do you think the George GLEW d 1880, Northcote, could be the missing father? The dates are good and it would explain a lot if George had set himself up with another 'wife' and had other children. I would think Christina would feel quite justified in saying she was a widow - she may, perhaps, have not known where George was.
Judith
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Actually I didn't thing about that scenario, so, have been checking out the indexes you sent re George D:1880 his wife Alice and the two daughters, in doing so I found 2more children AGNES 1855 and JAMES GEORGE 1857, and George and his wife Agnes married in 1854, this whole family is buried at the Northcote Cemetery.
The mother of my George is Mary, not Ann, however I could discount that fact, but, as my missing George married Christina Laird in 1854, also having 4 children, William 1855, Kathleen 1858, George 1860 (my original post was to find him) and Charles 1862.
So, until I can come up with another death, I will have to stay with the Adelaide one.
Thanks so much,
Judy
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Thanks, Judy
The extra info rules him out. I thought it was too good to be true!
Judith
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Hello Australian Glues
I am a descendant of George Glue and have been researching his life - along with considerable help from my cousin Judy, who has also contributed to this message board.
I have some confusing information which you may be able to help with.
My information shows George Glue married Carolina Leaird (or Laird) in Harting, Sussex on 12 Sep 1829. Then I have George Glue marrying Christiana (or Christina) Laird in Kilmore, Vic. in 1854.
Are these two different Glues and is there a link between Carolina and Christiana?
Many thanks
Ian
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I think you may find the 1854 marriage is indexed as George GLEW and Christina TAYERD .... Vic bdm online index #25724.
Vic bdm has discounts at the mo and the info on images of Vic marriages is usually very detailed.
JM
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hi judith
George and Christina married in Kilmore. 28 july 1854, both of the parish of Bylands, Kilsyth she was only 17 years of age the marriage was by license and she had her fathers consent, both signed with a cross (no more info)
William Birth cert 25 May 1855, place Kilsyth, father George Glue occupation "Sawyer" born Sussex England , mother Christina Laird
William married as William Russell 2 May 1877 in Tasmania to Eliza Jane Biddle, occupation "Splitter"
William Death 1926 place Beech Forrest District, "timber worker" parents George Glue and Christina Kenny Nee Laird
George only indexes for B & D, however I did find a marriage cert on another tree, To Mary Ryan 12 march 1850 in Kilsyth Occupation "Labourer" Parents William Glue and Christina Laird.
The info you sent re convicts, there have been some errors on different docs, George was Single a Farm Labourer and Joseph married with 2 children he was the bricklayer. Joseph was Geeorge's nephew.
Any wonder one gets confused!! I don't know how you at Rootschat put it all together so quickly, I have been battling with George as I said for a very long time, so, thank you all very much
Judy
Sharing.
JM
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Thanks JM - I'll check the vic BDMs .
Any idea about the 1829 marriage in Harting?
Is it the same George?
Ian
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Thanks JM - I'll check the vic BDMs .
Any idea about the 1829 marriage in Harting?
Is it the same George?
Ian
The Vic bdm digitised images are available to download and should include great depth of detail. They are as detailed as Scottish bdms. ;D
So, the info on a birth rego should include details about the baby's parents, including their then ages, origins, occupations, etc . :)
so perhaps you could consider a $20Au outlay on a digitised image of a birth rego ...
hopefully it will confirm the age of that George and will also contain info to match the 1854 marriage and sort out spelling of the surname for George's wife ... and of course validate your own research... :)
JM
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Back to early 1800s, Sussex, UK
The name George GLUE is quite common in the West Sussex area in the 1800s so it's not always possible to work out who is who.
I've looked at info from Ancestry, Find My Past and FreeReg for the period 1800 - 1834 when George was convicted. All of these villages are within walking distance, and Chichester, which is shown as his 'origin' on some convict records, is the nearest city and appears to be where his trial was held.
Baptism
George Glue, 23 Apr 1809, Rogate, Sussex, England, United Kingdom
Mother: Mary Glue
Marriage - the bride does not have the name you listed, so I doubt if there was any connection with Christina Laird
Sussex, South Harting, St Mary and St Gabriel,12 Sep 1829
George GLEW of Harting, bachelor
Ann GLEW of Harting, spinster
Witness1 Joseph GLEW
Witness2 Hannah GLEW
Notes Bride, Groom, Witness 1 and Witness 2 signed X
Is this a child of that marriage? Caution as there was another George GLEW with wife Ann having children at around the same time. I cannot see this Charlotte in 1841, nor her mother Ann.
Baptism,
Charlotte GLEW, 10 February 1833 at Rogate Church: St Bartholomew
Parish Register, #525
Parents: George GLEW, labourer, Ann
It doesn't seem possible to me to be able to say whether the marriage and the child's baptism belong to your man.
Judith
PS South Harting and Rogate are lovely villages with interesting churches and nice pubs!
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I may be repeating some of the information that follows, but I am posting it here to help as I think it is supporting much of the research Judith has just posted.
It is from an index, and my transcription of that index is:
November 1834
George GLUE arrived per Hooghley (4), on 18 Nov 1834 to Sydney NSW.
At that time he was recorded as aged 25 years, and a protestant and he could read. He was a married man with two daughters. He was born Sussex, and was a good Bricklayer. He had been tried for Robbing a barn, trial at Sussex Quarter Sessions, 30 July 1834, sentenced to 7 years. He had a previous conviction with a one month sentence. He had tatoos including 'A GLUE' inside his lower left arm. He was the nephew to convict no. 34/2648 (Joseph GLUE, per same voyage of the Hoogley).
Also possibly/probably in NSW in that era were :
George Glue per Atlas
George Glue per Mars
George Glue per Bolina
I should also note the following 1826 marriage:
13 March 1826
George GLEW, aged 21, free by servitude, of Sydney, a nailer and Mary MORRISON, aged 22 of Sydney, a spinster were married by Banns, by Rev Richard Hill, recorded in the parish register of St James C of E, Sydney. Witnesses : George WELCH of Castlereagh St, Sydney and Isaac MASON of King Street, Sydney. All made their x mark except Isaac Mason who signed.
ADD, George GLEW and Mary MORRISON banns read 26 Feb 1826, 5 March 1826 and 12 March 1826. George was noted as a Bachelor. :)
JM
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I have found another George GLEW .... :D
Arriving as Assisted Imigrants on the John Bright to NSW 8 June 1849
George GLEW aged 38, a Bricklayer, C of E, read and write
Eliza GLEW, aged 29, wife,
:) digitised images, readily available no charge, per NSW archives
http://indexes.records.nsw.gov.au/ebook/list.aspx?series=NRS5316&item=4_4786&ship=John%20Bright
ADD, Ancestry has this George as from Snenton, Nottinghamshire. The transcriber has erred. Eliza's entry has her from Snenton, George is clearly shown as from Bolton, Lincolnshire. :-X ::) ::)
JM
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Thank you JM and Judith,
It seems that the marriage in Harting could have been his first marriage but not to Carolina Laird - this just looks like a bit of confusion in the name.
I also purchased a copy of the marriage certificate between George and Christina Laird in Kilmore.
The handwriting is a bit obscure and I can see why its been picked up as Tayerd but is definitely Laird or Leaird.
I would like to follow up the first marriage- did George marry Christina whilst still married to Ann?
Many thanks
Ian
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Is there any age on the Kilmore marriage? It was very common for convicts to record as 'widower' or 'bachelor' on a subsequent marriage. and I believe it was legal, depending on the length of time since the original couple had been in contact.
Could you transcribe the Kilmore marriage fully please? The Sussex George would have been 45 at the time of the Kilmore marriage - quite an age gap with a 17year-old bride.
Judith
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Hi Judith,
Not a lot of information on the record.
It says "Marriages Solemnised in the Parish of Bylands Kilmore 1854
No.12 George Glew of Bylands Kilmore .Bach(elor)
Christina Laird .Spins(ter)
Married in the residence of Rev Wm Singleton by Licence with consent of Edw.Cole
This twentyeighth day of July in the year 1854 by me Wm Singleton Cl? 25724
This marriage was solemnised between us
George Glew x his mark
Christina Laird x her mark
In the presence of Edward Cole of Kilmore
C Cook of Kilmore
Interesting that the consent was given by Edward Cole. I wonder what relationship he was to Christina? Also why did she leave Hobart and end up in Kilmore at such a young age?
Over to you,
Many thanks
Ian
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Is that all on the left hand side of the page ... is there more information on the right hand side?
I am not sure when details like their origins,ages, parents names etc were first recorded on Vic certs...
Hi Judith,
Not a lot of information on the record.
It says "Marriages Solemnised in the Parish of Bylands Kilmore 1854
No.12 George Glew of Bylands Kilmore .Bach(elor)
Christina Laird .Spins(ter)
Married in the residence of Rev Wm Singleton by Licence with consent of Edw.Cole
This twentyeighth day of July in the year 1854 by me Wm Singleton Cl? 25724
This marriage was solemnised between us
George Glew x his mark
Christina Laird x her mark
In the presence of Edward Cole of Kilmore
C Cook of Kilmore
Interesting that the consent was given by Edward Cole. I wonder what relationship he was to Christina? Also why did she leave Hobart and end up in Kilmore at such a young age?
Over to you,
Many thanks
Ian
JM
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no thats everything.
You are correct that marriage certs included a lot more info later on
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So there is no reason to conclude from that 1854 m.c. that that particular George was previously married or that he was much older than his bride or that he was born in Britain ... or that his bride had come from Hobart...
All speculations.
JM
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Edward COLE, according to the probate papers for his estate died in 1869 (15 years
prior after his giving consent to the marriage of Christina) and was a farmer of Bylands near Kilmore. Again, from those papers at the time of his death he was married with children, although I'm not seeing any registrations.
Perhaps he was the only adult Christina knew at the time of her marriage.
Judith
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So, back in 2017 our Original Poster had the m.c. and it was giving that Christina was 17 years of age, and that she had her father's consent, and 'no more info' so no names of witnesses or the name of her father.... but now the document Vic BDM is giving Ian does not give age for the bride, gives the name of someone who is not likely to be be her dad, and names witnesses.... and yet still no information about George .... no occupation, no age, no place of birth, but status as a bachelor ... not as a widower. It is the clergy who determine the status, widower had a broad meaning, not the tight meaning used today.
So has Vic BDM more than one set of digitised images from 1854 ? How does this give confidence that that George was twice married.... ::)
JM
hi judith
George and Christina married in Kilmore. 28 july 1854, both of the parish of Bylands, Kilsyth she was only 17 years of age the marriage was by license and she had her fathers consent, both signed with a cross (no more info)
William Birth cert 25 May 1855, place Kilsyth, father George Glue occupation "Sawyer" born Sussex England , mother Christina Laird
William married as William Russell 2 May 1877 in Tasmania to Eliza Jane Biddle, occupation "Splitter"
William Death 1926 place Beech Forrest District, "timber worker" parents George Glue and Christina Kenny Nee Laird
George only indexes for B & D, however I did find a marriage cert on another tree, To Mary Ryan 12 march 1850 in Kilsyth Occupation "Labourer" Parents William Glue and Christina Laird.
The info you sent re convicts, there have been some errors on different docs, George was Single a Farm Labourer and Joseph married with 2 children he was the bricklayer. Joseph was Geeorge's nephew.
Any wonder one gets confused!! I don't know how you at Rootschat put it all together so quickly, I have been battling with George as I said for a very long time, so, thank you all very much
Judy
Sharing.
JM